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Cmon CCP Lets do this?
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-14 05:32:31 UTC
If you don't want to invest time in WIS then perhaps licence another company to develop an addon that can pull data from the EVE api.

Basically I dock in say Jita, click my captains quarters door, that logs me in to the third party client's server. I'll even pay a subscription for it.

Theres a lot of interest in WIS, social interaction is a huge market to tap into, look at Facebook, Sims, WoW, even these forums, people come for the social interaction. Its one of the main things missing from EVE, which is basically a very anti-social game.

People like to show off their bling, they like full body avatars. You have simple items like reverse sided monocles selling for 30 billion isk in game and you can't even see them except for in a 2D pic. 30 billion isk for a monocle is $950 worth of plex, for one in game vanity item.

You guys are sitting on a potential major cash cow if you go ahead with it. EvE is a great game, with the pvp of EVE and the depth of WIS it'll be completely unique.

Adding gambling such as casino's, aur 3d shopping and so on its guaranteed to be a success and having a 3rd party develop it if CCP doesn't want to is not going to be that risky...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-12-14 06:21:35 UTC
I don't agree that EVE is anti-social in any way. If anything it's more social, but it also breeds healthy mistrust between people. I talk, coordinate, operate and have fun with people I don't know or trust in the game all the time. I think it would be more accurate to say, that WIS could expand on that social space. It could create new reasons and new type of reasons for people to mingle and interact with people outside their usual circles and in that way broaden and strengthen the social interaction already happening.

That said I don't want to see a 3rd party development and I don't think it's a good idea anyway. If CCP has trouble coming up with compelling ways to integrate WIS with EVE and create meaningful content for it, what chance does a third party have. More likely they'll mess it up somehow and it'll be sticking out like a sore thumb from the rest of the game. That presents a huge risk for CCP, since any problems, incompatibilities and milking of players for their money will justly be blamed on CCP. So either they should do it properly themselves or not do it at all.

At the moment CCP certainly lacks the will to do it, since they still remember the burns of their initial failure. They'll probably return to it at some point though, since the concept itself never failed. CCP just failed miserably to realize the concept and deliver on most of the promises. It'll likely happen when CCP has gained more financial stability. At the moment they don't want to risk rocking the boat, since EVE is their only major source of money, but they have to pay for the upkeep and development of multiple titles. It's this lack of success in making new popular games, that is making them very conservative with their EVE development. They simply can't afford even the risk of another potential Incarna at this stage.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-12-14 06:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
I don't agree that EVE is anti-social in any way. If anything it's more social, but it also breeds healthy mistrust between people. I talk, coordinate, operate and have fun with people I don't know or trust in the game all the time. I think it would be more accurate to say, that WIS could expand on that social space. It could create new reasons and new type of reasons for people to mingle and interact with people outside their usual circles and in that way broaden and strengthen the social interaction already happening.

That said I don't want to see a 3rd party development and I don't think it's a good idea anyway. If CCP has trouble coming up with compelling ways to integrate WIS with EVE and create meaningful content for it, what chance does a third party have. More likely they'll mess it up somehow and it'll be sticking out like a sore thumb from the rest of the game. That presents a huge risk for CCP, since any problems, incompatibilities and milking of players for their money will justly be blamed on CCP. So either they should do it properly themselves or not do it at all.

At the moment CCP certainly lacks the will to do it, since they still remember the burns of their initial failure. They'll probably return to it at some point though, since the concept itself never failed. CCP just failed miserably to realize the concept and deliver on most of the promises. It'll likely happen when CCP has gained more financial stability. At the moment they don't want to risk rocking the boat, since EVE is their only major source of money, but they have to pay for the upkeep and development of multiple titles. It's this lack of success in making new popular games, that is making them very conservative with their EVE development. They simply can't afford even the risk of another potential Incarna at this stage.

You make some really good points. I'd rather they did it themselves too. Also even if a 3rd party developed it, CCP could have control over the whole process, depending on the contract they entered into.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#4 - 2013-12-14 07:55:27 UTC
Totally support the idea of developing WiS.

I'm sure some Dev staff lurk the WiS threads in GD, so I'll not waste pixels regurgitating my opinions and suggestions, other than to echo them once again.

I don't know if 3rd party development, as suggested by Infinity Ziona, is the way to go (IMO user-created content is traditionally the best approache to avatar-based content), but I'd still support that idea if CCP thought it wise.

So yeah, just a post to say +1 overall. Smile

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate ツ Full-Time Supermodel

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Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#5 - 2013-12-14 12:14:25 UTC
I personally think a third part client with subscription that is a purely social environment is a terrible terrible idea.

But I have liked your post just as a show of support for the idea that WiS should continue development sooner rather than later.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#6 - 2013-12-14 12:26:30 UTC
Adding WiS will make EVE attractive to a larger circle of people, people who are used to MMO's featuring avatar-based gameplay and flat out can' accept the "you are the ship you fly (whatever ship you're currently flying)" thing but want to instead be a bipedal humanoid.

Also note that CCP is sitting on the World of Darkness intellectual property, and they do appear to have plans for a WoD MMORPG. It's just that it might be long-term plans, very long-term indeed. But WiS matches very well with a more traditional MMORPG, in terms of tech platform.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-12-14 13:10:01 UTC
Davon Mandra'thin wrote:
I personally think a third part client with subscription that is a purely social environment is a terrible terrible idea.

But I have liked your post just as a show of support for the idea that WiS should continue development sooner rather than later.

Thank you. As I said above if it was CCP doing it that'd be great. Third party could run and host but it could still be integrated on the front end so from a users perspective it would be part of EvE.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-12-14 13:51:50 UTC
I would love to see some development on WiS.
some people gripe that wis players will all sit in station and never undock.. or that it's purely for RP players.. or wow in space (lol)..
I'd rather be in a rich Eve environment doing eve things while docked rather than spinning ships lol
subscription paid., logged in.. who cares if I'm in a spaceship or in a station.
it wouldn't be a drain on the economy either, like some people fear.. sure lots will sport their Nifty Nex threads paid with Aurum, whatever it's called ( more $ for CCP). if it's possible to engage other avatars in combat/ganks/whatever then someone has to replace those implants and hardwirings. it wouldn't be risk free carebear heaven either if that were the case.

"Eve is about spaceships dammit!!" meh.. not entirely. that's pretty narrow minded especially in a game as epic and massive as eve is..

"it'll take up Dev time!!!" yeah, like all expansions and updates do. just because it's not focused on some peoples style of game play they'll fear it and gripe. I don't explore, hack, do ghost sites.. but I never pouted or threw a hissy fit when an update come out focused on those or any style of play that didn't match mine..,

part of the backlash when the CQ expansion came out was because we were all forced into it.. and then the only other choice after a while was a crap background wallpaper..

but when WiS does come.. and you don't want to interact with it... don't open the damn door :)
scimichar
Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
#9 - 2013-12-14 15:44:04 UTC
You realize you can talk to people in game without WIS right?
Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-12-14 15:57:30 UTC
scimichar wrote:
You realize you can talk to people in game without WIS right?


brilliant observation! you, Sir are a genius!! cancel any further WiS discussion.. that dude solved it all in one line
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#11 - 2013-12-14 17:13:51 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
people come for the social interaction. Its one of the main things missing from EVE, which is basically a very anti-social game

You must be playing the game wrong. Success is Eve is more dependent on social interaction with other players than in any other game I have ever played.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#12 - 2013-12-14 17:53:00 UTC
CCP must not develop all these things brand new.
There are ready made things outside like this: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Main_Page

So it may be that a click on 'Captains Quarters' lead you on a server like this which is designed as a space staiton...
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-14 17:59:52 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
people come for the social interaction. Its one of the main things missing from EVE, which is basically a very anti-social game

You must be playing the game wrong. Success is Eve is more dependent on social interaction with other players than in any other game I have ever played.

When I say it's antisocial I mean the gameplay itself. The gameplay is focused on killing, scamming, lying, stealing and generally making anyone not a part of your exclusive club deader, poorer and sadder.

That's pretty antisocial by anyone's definition.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#14 - 2013-12-14 18:34:59 UTC
There are very few games that don't meet your definition of "anti-social".

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2013-12-14 18:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
people come for the social interaction. Its one of the main things missing from EVE, which is basically a very anti-social game

You must be playing the game wrong. Success is Eve is more dependent on social interaction with other players than in any other game I have ever played.

When I say it's antisocial I mean the gameplay itself. The gameplay is focused on killing, scamming, lying, stealing and generally making anyone not a part of your exclusive club deader, poorer and sadder.

That's pretty antisocial by anyone's definition.

EVE gameplay is also focused on; organizing with others to reach a larger goal, cutting deals with friends/enemies/randoms, planning out operations/fleets/gangs/logistics, training, disseminating information, backing up your friends/allies, etc.

Just because "trust" comes at a premium and "bad" elements of social interaction are allowed it does not mean that the game is "anti-social" by a long shot. The fact that you HAVE to interact with others to fulfill any higher goals makes this game VERY social.


Also... what features will "walking in station" have that won't take away from current gameplay (outside of "pretty")? This is important to answer because...

- if you have to talk to mission agents inside a station in-person... mission runners will hate it (it cuts into their efficiency).
- if you can run missions (or make ISK in any way) inside a station without the slightest chance of interference from other players... pirates, gankers and null-bears will hate it (because it makes for "risk-free" gameplay and instancing is against the core of EVE's "everyone can affect everyone" mantra).
- if you have to walk in station to get certain items (like boosters) or do certain things (like repair ships) then PvPers will hate it (because it cuts into their efficiency).


Now you might ask... what about mini-games like poker in a station?
We already have EoHpoker... it's a 3rd party website that allows you to play poker while continuing to play EVE (you can still mine, scout, explore, PvP, etc).


And really... that's the core of the issue (and probably the reason WiS isn't a top priority)... outside of using a different form of your character (being a human rather than a ship), what can WiS functionally offer that the current EVE can't?
The answer is "nothing."

I honestly cannot understand why people say "EVE isn't complete/playable/social because I can't look a certain way." A game is meant to be played... not merely looked/ogled at.

How did you Veterans start?
Naydra Adni
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-12-14 18:53:46 UTC
wis should NOT be risk free
I think we can all agree on that
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#17 - 2013-12-14 18:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Infinity Ziona wrote:
When I say it's antisocial I mean the gameplay itself. The gameplay is focused on killing, scamming, lying, stealing and generally making anyone not a part of your exclusive club deader, poorer and sadder.

I'm all for WiS if WiS means people can do all that to you in station.

And there should be sp setbacks for a capsuleer getting caught outside of his pod. Anything else would not be very immersive.

Remove standings and insurance.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-12-15 04:24:04 UTC
Personally I think a PvP aspect would be awful unless it was carefully controlled which is quite difficult in an alt infested game.

Even of some of the non-random death match servers in many MMO's you have constant RDM killings and its very very difficult to control unless you sit there constantly kicking people from the servers.

Perhaps war decs excluded. But getting ahead of ourselves really.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#19 - 2013-12-15 04:39:00 UTC
Why won't this idea just... die.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-12-15 04:42:20 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Why won't this idea just... die.

Too many players want it?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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