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Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. This makes it unappealing. Solutions.

First post First post
Author
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2013-12-13 07:13:23 UTC
Silent Rambo wrote:
Onictus wrote:

I don't pay for any of my accounts unless I'm out of game or just being lazy....and I have four active.....I can basically plex an account every two days with like 2-3 hours of mission running, and an alt with like 16mil SP.


2/3 hours of mission running = 600mil isk payoff. Where da f---- you doing these missions?


Multiboxing in high sec can net you this.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#102 - 2013-12-13 07:22:12 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


Non sequitur.

Your "fact" is that EVE makes it easy to multi box fleets. Your "conclusion" is that someone with lots of money can multi box and "dominate" you in 1v1.

These do not follow: if someone is in a fleet with boosters, it's 1vN combat.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#103 - 2013-12-13 07:34:42 UTC
It's pay-to-lose. Usually in a fiery heap of scrap metal.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2013-12-13 08:00:23 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Here is the deal.

Real money creates Plex out of thin air.

Plex is a valued commodity.

Ergo, your money is creating value.

That value can be seen as an advantage as players who cannot create plex are at a disadvantage of those who do.

Which means those who do not create plex are trading their man hours for other people.

But that is how real life works.

Someone with money makes some poor sap work for him and pays him minimum wage (or less if they can get away with it).

Then these people have the gall to call it an equivalent exchange.

But anyways, the jokes on them... They are spending more money than me on internet space pixels so I' m not going to get hot and bothered than they can buy trillions worth of isk and bankroll entire alliances with their 401K pension.

Really, EVE is pay to win if you know what you are doing, but if I was going to spend thousands on a game, I'd rather buy actual stocks or go to vegas. Hell vegas has cheep alcohol and the ladies of the night.

So when these people do spend thousands on this game, I'm going to say... I'm glad I'm not as dumb as them. They can win this game.

last i recall, werent the people infamous for dumping tons of money into EVE some of the old RUS-block leaderships?

and didnt they get lulpwned by everyone and their grandmother?
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#105 - 2013-12-13 08:03:01 UTC
FC thread has been derailed. Permission to cesspit?

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#106 - 2013-12-13 08:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
Charge bars! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M That's a pretty bad idea.

After careful reading of your post, I believe your problem is you are fighting 1v1. I think going 10v1 or maybe even 100v1 might improve your results.

So I leave you with my standard replies to these kinds of complaints.

Friendship is magic, make some friends!

Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:
FC thread has been derailed. Permission to cesspit?


Do you even have to ask?

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-12-13 08:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.


[sarcasm] Yes, because there is evidence all over Battleclinic and EVE-kill that buying the prettiest ship and fitting the most expensive modules to it will make you win, every time. [/sarcasm]

EDIT: I didn't read your post before I posted. Then I went back and read it, and realized that you honestly don't get it, so I'll leave my post there in an attempt to derail this dumb thread and make it die.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
TharOkha
0asis Group
#108 - 2013-12-13 08:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Halcyon Harvey wrote:

This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life), should be rewarded. I mean, think of all the time and money they could have spent on something... you know... productive.. but instead devoted to grinding internetspacepixels.

That **** is funny as hell.


Oh man, when I read something like this i just shook my head and think "ts, tss, tss... poor little guy, so much envy in him Sad .

You know, there are many peeps out there, that have successful life, have a beautiful and loving wife and children, they hike mountains and nature and yet, they are technological maniacs and geeks that spends money on their toys without negatively affecting their family budget. Please look at the mirror.

And remember kids...


EDIT: by the way you just wrote a textbook fallacy "This level of commitment (by which I mean lack of a life)," === true Scotchman drink"...i am Scotchman and dont drink".. then you are not a true Scotchman"...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#109 - 2013-12-13 08:52:10 UTC
Tl;DR:

A particularly deluded have-not, hating on the haves.

Oh, and to the OP:

I work full time, I have a family to feed, and I have 4 accounts. Just sayin'.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2013-12-13 09:13:13 UTC
LOL.

Show me where the falcon alt touched you... .


o7





P.s Make some friends before going pew pew mmaky?.
Reiisha
#111 - 2013-12-13 12:17:53 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.


Spoiled rich kid buys 10 accounts with 10 characters.

He then proceeds to use 10 apocs to 'gank people' because they look cool.

He fits them with 4 cap rechargers, 7 cap relays and 8 1400's.

He then gets utterly destroyed by a gang of 5 rifters because he has no clue how the game works.



EVE is a game where planning and strategy are incredibly important. Experience is paramount and also counts as skill - Twitch skills arent the only skills you need when playing games (you would be very surprised about the amount of mindgames necessary in games like Starcraft 2 or even Quake).

While isk is no doubt a contributing factor to being able to win, it is by no means the only one, nor is it even the most important one.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Dirk Massive
D.O.O.M.
#112 - 2013-12-13 12:23:33 UTC
Life itself is not fair, or easy for that matter. The very thing that makes Eve special is it mimics what we face in real life better than just about any other game. It's a struggle. Sometimes you win a fight sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get scammed, but if you use your head, you'll most likely be just fine. Eve ain't easy, and it's not supposed to be. If it was most of us wouldn't be playing it anymore, and this thread would be in a moot point category.

**Bringing WAR and TERROR to a system near you.... **

Amber Kurvora
#113 - 2013-12-13 12:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Amber Kurvora
I look at it this way - those who use plex to pimp fit ships are just providing bigger giggles when they get ganked. We've all tipped our hats to the guys who gank 2 billion ISK Tengus or fully faction fitted CnRs.

So I say have at it - eventually you'll end up padding out someone's kill board.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#114 - 2013-12-13 12:39:50 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


I'm not a spoiled rich kid. I work for my money and I spend it how I please. Also for people who plex, their time is their own and they spend it how they please (grinding isk). So you're both (1) not prepared to work to pay to win outside of the game and (2) not prepared to work to pay to win inside of the game.

I think that covers everything.


Dirk Massive
D.O.O.M.
#115 - 2013-12-13 13:17:01 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:

Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


I'm not a spoiled rich kid. I work for my money and I spend it how I please. Also for people who plex, their time is their own and they spend it how they please (grinding isk). So you're both (1) not prepared to work to pay to win outside of the game and (2) not prepared to work to pay to win inside of the game.

I think that covers everything.



I have to say I agree with this 110%. A person SHOULD be able to spend his money as he pleases. It really is nobody elses business.

**Bringing WAR and TERROR to a system near you.... **

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2013-12-13 13:52:16 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


Putting the word 'fact' in front of an assertion does not make it so unless you qualify the assertion. Allow me to demonstrate by responding to...



Quote:
Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


Fact: how much money you spend on EVE does not determine how good you are at it, how much you learn from it, or what you get out of it. Now, to qualify the fact, this is demonstrable by the number of single account holders who do quite well for themselves, both PVP-wise and isk-wise, such as myself.

Quote:
Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


This is either projection, trolling, or irony, I haven't been able to determine it yet.

Quote:
Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.


How long have you been playing EVE, and what game were you playing before it?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2013-12-13 13:56:02 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:
I look at it this way - those who use plex to pimp fit ships are just providing bigger giggles when they get ganked. We've all tipped our hats to the guys who gank 2 billion ISK Tengus or fully faction fitted CnRs.

So I say have at it - eventually you'll end up padding out someone's kill board.


This is what it comes down to. The guys who are doing well at PVP are not, for the most part, pimping their ships, because they are expecting to lose them. I can't speak for multiboxers, because I'm not one, but I know a few, and one in particular ended up killing his own scout in a Helios by accident in the heat of combat. I would imagine that if you think multiboxing is easy, you probably haven't tried it. Given how much multitasking is already required in PVP when you're working alone, with multiple accounts or not, multiboxing would make it that much harder, and riskier, while simultaneously giving you a firepower advantage. This is balance, where you have an advantage, you also have a drawback.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#118 - 2013-12-13 14:28:45 UTC
Halcyon Harvey wrote:

Yeah... because this happens all the time and to the smartest people. Roll


I might point out then that it'd be safe to say it happens to the majority of eve players, who are not, I might point out, the smartest people, based on the sheer volume of scams that are successfully pulled off.

Tippia wrote:
It doesn't require any mental gymnastics, only the realisation that PLEX can't buy you anything that can't be (trivially) had through other means, thereby defeating any pretence of P2W. It's not that it has no impact; it's that its impact is universally available whether you pay for it or not.


Tippia wrote:

No, it's your (very limited) supply of ISK — a supply that can be had with ease without any banks being involved.


Please point me to the in game activity that can earn me 14 billion isk a day, profit, solo. Please.

Assuming that a player has a lot of time on his hands and plays ten hours a day, that means 1.4 billion isk an hour for ten hours,

I like to think I'm fairly good at eve and my personal best was 700 million an hour and I really couldn't sustain it,
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#119 - 2013-12-13 14:47:32 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
I might point out then that it'd be safe to say it happens to the majority of eve players, who are not, I might point out, the smartest people, based on the sheer volume of scams that are successfully pulled off.

[…]

Please point me to the in game activity that can earn me 14 billion isk a day, profit, solo. Please.
You've already found one, I see… Blink

Conversely, for how long do you think you can keep up PLEXing 14bn a day?
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#120 - 2013-12-13 15:05:40 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.

lol.

one day you will realise that the price of a ship is NOTHING to do with it's perfs.

throw isk to a ship, even an expansive one, if you don't know how to fit, and fly it, i'll still **** you with my 100M dardevil.

you reminf me of a corpmate, who came up to me with an "invincible" mach fit (+- 3.5b hull + fit)

i took him on SISI, asked him to fit his mach, and took my little dardevil, then killed him (tbh, a rifter would have done the job).

he rage quited arguing there is now way a balanced game allows a 100M ship to get the edge over a 3.5B ship.

your thinking process is the same, then you will find the hard way how wrong you are.......