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Secure your cargo and discourage gankers: Use the Rigged Freight Container
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Kal'el Nirukhi
Spartan Industries
#1 - 2013-12-06 03:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'el Nirukhi
A good way of discouraging gankers to pick your freighter, is to use the Rigged Freight container. It is comparable by the dye pack , used in securing value and money transports IRL.

How does it work? ( EDIT: the idea has changed throughout this thread: please read the further posts too)

You can arm the can by setting a pasword.
When a can is armed
- the name can't be changed anymore
- the can cannot be repackaged or opened.
- the contents are destroyed when the can is hacked. A good hacker has a 1/100 chance of succeeding. a blast wave can harm hackers, like ghost site cans
- the can can be put on contracts, and thus be resold to the ganked person or a good hacker.

Two possible versions:
Fluoroantimonic acid: dissolves contents and can, leaving a vapor. But no harm done to the surroundings
High Explosives: Can explodes, destroying contents and creating blast wave of 5km

( Some extra idea: The explosive can is not allowed to be in station while armed: you can not dock with an explosive can still armed, you can't arm the can in station, The acid can should be allowed in station, even when armed, since it doesn't harm surroundings)

This could be an idea for a T2 can.

should exist in different sizes
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#2 - 2013-12-06 05:39:21 UTC
Why?
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#3 - 2013-12-06 05:52:18 UTC
Bait badgers full of explosive cans? Anti griefer griefing?
Kal'el Nirukhi
Spartan Industries
#4 - 2013-12-13 05:45:16 UTC
no, you just deny the gankers their loot, Less motivated gankers will not engage when they scan an explosive can, since they know you will destroy the loot. This doesn't prevent the ganking for fun / standings.

This post is NOT a care bear cry to protect the haulers from the evil gankers; rather a plea for added game functionality, that adds realism and other gamaplay ( The can could be resold to the gankee, or a dedicated hacker

How to prevent everyone from using only those cans?

- make the can expensive / T2
- the can should have a less then 1 cargo/volume ratio
- the cans have the same volume packaged as unpacked
- only one explosive can allowed per cargo hold
- disarming by entering the code takes time ( an hour? a day? )
- arming can only be done while your ship is in space and takes a little bit time ( 10 sec.? )

- armed cans can be hacked ( in space only, maybe only in certain places/ sites/ sec levels ); the chance of a successful hack should be small ( 1 -5%)
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#5 - 2013-12-13 05:53:28 UTC
Not a bad concept, but re-think your hacking probabilities. There is no such thing as an un-crack-able portable safe, provided your safecracker has enough SKILL and a small amount of luck. That's not to say that the contents can't still self-destruct, just that your hacker should have a 5 or 7.5% chance of success per skill level.

Create a new mini-profession!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2013-12-13 06:49:24 UTC
I like the basic concept, although it still needs some thinking through.

The not being able to dock thing doesn't work, how the heck is one supposed to sell it back to the original owner or to someone else in that state?

As much as I think suicide ganking has gotten too easy/cheap to pull off, I don't think we should introduce something that makes it trivial to deny spoils to the gankers. Under no circumstances should it be normal or effective to try and take an entire freighter load with these containers. At some point it should be prohibitively expensive or impractical to load up so many containers. One option perhaps to keep the whole thing balanced would be to make these containers take up more space than they provide in exchange for their functionality. Say an assembled container would only be able to hold between 20%-50% of its volume.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#7 - 2013-12-13 10:36:33 UTC
or it DYEs people that try open the cans (usually the gankers/alts) with in x amount of time while they are in space and generates Killrights..

Killrights generated.. Sell kill rights.. trolls trolling trolls + carebear getting retribution for being popped.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-12-13 10:47:47 UTC
Zvaarian the Red wrote:
Why?


Good question.

Personally, I think it would make sense to secure your own freight with bombz. If you are at risk (suicide-ganking in highsec, hauling through low/null), you would try to bring some security with ya. After all, you can't have escorts all the time.

Desperate times require desperate measures, and if bombing your stuff is the only option to not let them have your stuff..

You could make the skill "bomb-defusal" and various types of bombs with different probabilities and such.. I kinda like it.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#9 - 2013-12-13 11:05:50 UTC
If this comes out it should add some sort of functionality to everyone not just nerf gankers into ground, say these cans have 30% chance to explode and harm ganker and 80% chance to drop meaning gankers have 20% chance to lose loot of first roll and then 25% which basically gives them 5% more chance to get loot at risk of getting blown up or wasting time.

Alternate is these cans always dropping and having 45% chance to explode.

We absolutely can't have something you proposed.

Eve needs to have diversity in professions, you are trying to remove one so gtfo.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-12-13 16:11:23 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
If this comes out it should add some sort of functionality to everyone not just nerf gankers into ground, say these cans have 30% chance to explode and harm ganker and 80% chance to drop meaning gankers have 20% chance to lose loot of first roll and then 25% which basically gives them 5% more chance to get loot at risk of getting blown up or wasting time.

Alternate is these cans always dropping and having 45% chance to explode.

We absolutely can't have something you proposed.

Eve needs to have diversity in professions, you are trying to remove one so gtfo.


I like how you first offer some reasonable advice on how to make it balanced, but end by telling the OP to gtfo.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#11 - 2013-12-13 16:21:39 UTC
Kal'el Nirukhi wrote:
no, you just deny the gankers their loot


But why is good to deny them their loot? One can like or dislike it, but is a legit gameplay as the freighter pilots; and they putting some effort and suiciding their ships.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2013-12-13 16:37:42 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Kal'el Nirukhi wrote:
no, you just deny the gankers their loot


But why is good to deny them their loot? One can like or dislike it, but is a legit gameplay as the freighter pilots; and they putting some effort and suiciding their ships.



Its good for the freighter pilot since it allows him to carry more value before he becomes a profitable gank target. Or at least profitable enough to warrant getting ganked.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#13 - 2013-12-13 16:46:45 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Its good for the freighter pilot since it allows him to carry more value before he becomes a profitable gank target. Or at least profitable enough to warrant getting ganked.


yes, I got this :)

I meant why is good for the general gameplay, why is an improvement. Gankers are also playing their game, as the freighter pilot. Why should be removed?

And is questionable is good for the freighter pilots in general. it makes the "bad" freighter pilots equal to the "good" ones, since add an automatic safety mechanic: no matter if you are cautions when hauliung, no matter how you manage your travel, no matter if you use a scout or not... nothing matter cause the exploding container will make ganking useless.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#14 - 2013-12-13 17:30:44 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

I meant why is good for the general gameplay, why is an improvement. Gankers are also playing their game, as the freighter pilot. Why should be removed?


It comes down to a basic judgement as to how much a freighter should be able to carry before becoming a profitable gank target. Sure it has to not just pay for ganker ships, but also enough to be worth their time and sec status loss. Its just a question of balance. Then you've got stuff like unscannable double-courier contracts, which is pretty cheesy and shouldn't exist, but the fact that its the only way that courier services can reasonably stay functional is an indication that something is broken. I like this idea because its a lot more interesting than just raising freighter HP or speeding up Concord response time. But of course, I try to be sensitive to the needs of gankers as well, and this idea is definitely something that has to be balanced carefully and its features carefully considered.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Wayward Hero
Wayward Ventures
#15 - 2013-12-13 19:47:20 UTC
I like the idea of a self destructing can.

Changes the gank value equation if you had cargo/freight containers that had a 50% chance to destroy their contents if they are ejected into space (as opposed to launched).

Cargo value is now ~25% for ganking a hauling ship, rather than the ~50% currently.

The cost/benefit of having these containers be significantly less volume efficient seems totally reasonable.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-12-13 20:51:35 UTC
Kal'el Nirukhi wrote:
This post is NOT a care bear cry to protect the haulers from the evil gankers; rather a plea for added game functionality, that adds realism and other gamaplay ( The can could be resold to the gankee, or a dedicated hacker


If the only positive aspect of a gameplay element is 'realism' then the gameplay element sucks. Or you're just lying about why you want it.

The only function of this container is to make it harder for people to profit off ganks. Which means it's a carebear device. Your motivation doesn't matter.
TheMercenaryKing
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-12-13 20:53:40 UTC
what are the penalties? 50% the normal volume inside the container?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2013-12-13 21:40:38 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
If this comes out it should add some sort of functionality to everyone not just nerf gankers into ground, say these cans have 30% chance to explode and harm ganker and 80% chance to drop meaning gankers have 20% chance to lose loot of first roll and then 25% which basically gives them 5% more chance to get loot at risk of getting blown up or wasting time.

Alternate is these cans always dropping and having 45% chance to explode.

We absolutely can't have something you proposed.

Eve needs to have diversity in professions, you are trying to remove one so gtfo.


Nothing is going to be removed. It would be reduced, that's all. Does wardec'ing remove PVE or jump/freighter kills in highsec? No, even today and even alliances with months old wardecs lose ships to the dec'ers. The same is going to happen with these cans, if they were introduced. Some are going to use them, but the vast majority not because it's impractical, time consuming or risky. Gankers can still gank the great unwashed. The only thing they need to do is to pay closer attention to the cargo scan. Not just the value of the loot inside, but also what cans are used. Shouldn't be much of a problem for the pros. If you are not a pro, you should consider that your lay-off. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Kal'el Nirukhi
Spartan Industries
#19 - 2013-12-14 04:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'el Nirukhi
Let's nuance it:

Explosive can self-destruct mechanism: how does it work?

- the freighter pilot notices a lot of destroyers swarming and bumping his ship,
- he feels he will be ganked and clicks the option "detonate" ,(1)
- this takes all your capacitor (2)
- a 10 second countdown starts after which the can becomes empty and 99% damaged
- if the ship is destroyed before the countdown ends, and the looters click the can fast enough to cancel (3) the detonation, the loot is saved

questions:
(1) I feel this option should be on the ships / capacitors right click menu if the ship has an explosive can in cargo. It is also be on the can's right click menu

(2)( because your cargo bays "internal quarantine shields" are being overloaded so the ship can survive the blast )
and also so we won't use the option and cancel without consequence

edit, there should be a delay of 3 seconds before your capacitor empties, so misclicking pilots don't find themselves without cap

(3) the right click menu of the can has a "cancel" option during countdown
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#20 - 2013-12-14 04:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
There was a similar idea to this one that I rather liked. I don't like this idea as much, but I do like the notion of cans that explode and destroy whatever's in them - especially if they create an AoE damage wave that can kill unprepared frigates without even trying.

The gankers can ruin a transporter's day and that's considered legit gameplay. I don't disagree at all, but I do ask:

If the gankers can ruin a transporter's day, why shouldn't the transporter be able to ruin a ganker's day?

Being able to ruin someone else's day is the cornerstone upon which EVE was built.
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