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Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game. This makes it unappealing. Solutions.

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Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#1 - 2013-12-12 18:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Fabulous Rod
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: some spoiled rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. For example, requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2013-12-12 18:09:15 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:


In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals


Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.
.



I think I have found your problem

And, fwiw, multiboxing is very common in other games, even to the point of multiboxing raids.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-12-12 18:09:54 UTC
Posting in Stealth "Eve is Dying" Thread

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#4 - 2013-12-12 18:11:23 UTC
EVE is "pay to win" insofar as if you can't find some way to pay for your account, you can't log in and win.

/thread

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2013-12-12 18:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is much much easier to do.


Easier than what?

Quote:
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.


Not sure what controlling multiple accounts has to do with 1v1. Perhaps you're talking about purchasing plex and selling it so you can 1v1 in officer fit ships?

Or are you actually talking about the guy who uncloaks a falcon once you've engaged? In which case, why are you expecting a fair fight in the first place?

Also, your usage of "daddy's boy rich kid" to describe persons with multiple accounts is pretty hilarious. You may as well call everyone that doesn't grind isk to PLEX their single account a "daddy's boy rich kid."

Quote:
Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.


You're saying Eve should become a different game entirely so that it is better regarded by people that already don't play Eve.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Poison Dagger
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-12-12 18:13:52 UTC
Based on numerous awards I would say that Eve's reputation is just fine. Eve has come along way and "I don't play but I respect Eve" Is a very common sentiment amongst the MMO community.

Also, Eve is as much pay to win as it is pay to lose. Skill, and intellectual ability trumps all.
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2013-12-12 18:16:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
You heard it here first, folks: Flying multiple ships at one time doesn't already force you to divide attention and time between them. Then again, as soon as we saw "logic dictates" in the thread title, we should have known what was coming.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2013-12-12 18:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game.
Fortunately, reality trounces this supposed “logic”, making the logic rather suspect…

Quote:
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
That's a pretty odd conclusion. After all, if it's a 1v1, the money put in no longer matters (well… aside from maybe in the sense of “number of months subbed in the past”), especially not when you equate the payment in question to having multiple accounts. That's probably why the logic seemed so suspect: it isn't particularly consistent with its own assumptions.
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-12-12 18:22:32 UTC
I haven't spent a dollar on Eve for over a year now.

Just this last week we killed a 500 mil Demios with 15 frigs, I think you are playing Eve wrong.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-12 18:23:47 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Fact: Unlike other pvp mmorpgs, EVE's controls are simple enough and required interactions are low enough that simultaneously controlling multiple accounts is very easy to do.


This creates an environment where multiple accounts are highly preferable to gain an edge over an opponent. The advantage of more accounts is compounded exponentially by the hard counters that are possible in pvp, such as E-war, Neut/Nos, RR etc.

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals because it is nearly impossible for them to play more than one or two accounts simultaneously and efficiently. In EVE, you don't need to find another buddy to fill that tackler role or neut role for you because you can just easily, or even more easily, use one of your alts to fulfill the role perfectly.



Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE, and the fact that you can easily convert cash to ISK, and stay away.


Solution: Require more input from the user. Requiring some degree of aiming or charge bars with timing requirements in combat would go a long way to improving the reputation and game play of EVE.


Don't know what you are talking about.

I don't pay for any of my accounts unless I'm out of game or just being lazy....and I have four active.....I can basically plex an account every two days with like 2-3 hours of mission running, and an alt with like 16mil SP.

You need to check your definition of P2W, they thought about it and 20% of the player base unsubbed......go check out the summer of rage circa the Incrusion expansion.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#11 - 2013-12-12 18:24:22 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:


In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals


Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.

Many intelligent people understand this about EVE and stay away.
.



I think I have found your problem

And, fwiw, multiboxing is very common in other games, even to the point of multiboxing raids.


Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-12-12 18:24:59 UTC
Logic always works, even on an incomplete set of data that leads to conclusions which are not connected to reality.
Fabulous Rod
Darkfall Corp
#13 - 2013-12-12 18:27:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:
Logic dictates EVE is a pay to win game.


Quote:
Conclusion: Daddy's boy rich kid with 500$ a week allowance gets to dominate you in EVE 1v1 until you get competitive with your wallet.
That's a pretty odd conclusion. After all, if it's a 1v1, the money put in no longer matters


Try not to be so clueless and understand we aren't talking about 1 ship vs 1 ship. Living on these forums so many years has rotted your brain.
Spurty
#14 - 2013-12-12 18:31:12 UTC
Sorry, what is it you want?

+Q+uirky
+U+ser
+I+nteraction
+T+actile
+S+preadsheets?

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-12-12 18:31:59 UTC
Fabulous Rod wrote:

In other mmorpgs, players are forced to group up and cooperate to achieve their goals


No they're not. Having played more MMOs then I care to admit, I can assure you that you're mistaken.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#16 - 2013-12-12 18:34:29 UTC
Understand this isn't your typical mmo. It's not fair, it's not easy....that's why we like it. While I agree having alts for boosting, scouting, etc... is very convenient, it isn't required to succeed at pvp.

And trust me, the first time you gank the **** out of that boosted, falcon 5 account using douche it will all be worth it:)

nom nom
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-12-12 18:35:42 UTC
There is much more to PvP than Obit, Lock, Shoot. I have two accounts, one for combat and one for utility. I have tried multiboxing in PvP with my alt flying logi. It works, but I find that there is so much going on that I am not doing either job as well as I could.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-12-12 18:36:28 UTC
Princess Nexxala wrote:
Understand this isn't your typical mmo. It's not fair, it's not easy....that's why we like it. While I agree having alts for boosting, scouting, etc... is very convenient, it isn't required to succeed at pvp.

And trust me, the first time you gank the **** out of that boosted, falcon 5 account using douche it will all be worth it:)


Yes a personal high point was catching a certain booster loki drifting out of a POS in Old Man Star.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#19 - 2013-12-12 18:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Fabulous Rod wrote:

Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.


So? Even if you changed all of Eve's mechanics to make multiboxing less practical, the existence of the PLEX system would still technically make it pay to win. However, as others have pointed out, paying RL money doesn't give you anything (isk or other accounts) that can't be achieved without paying RL money.

So you're suggesting that we change Eve mechanics and gameplay fundamentally at great expense to CCP to solve a problem that most people don't think is a problem to satisfy people that don't play Eve anyway. And on top of that, even then it wouldn't solve your stated problem.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-12-12 18:38:55 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Fabulous Rod wrote:

Multi-boxing is nowhere near as common in other MMORPGS as it is in EVE. This is because of the extreme advantages and ease with which it is done in EVE. Anyone who plays EVE could tell you this.


So? Even if you changed all of Eve's mechanics to make multiboxing less practical, the existence of the PLEX system would still technically make it pay to win. However, as others have pointed out, paying RL money doesn't give you anything (isk or other accounts) that can't be achieved without paying RL money.

So you're suggesting that we change Eve mechanics and gameplay fundamentally at great expense to CCP to solve a problem that most people don't think is a problem to satisfy people that don't play Eve anyway. And on top of that, even then it wouldn't solve your stated problem.



You are looking at it backward. Plex ALSO makes it don't pay at all. Which most people can manage even at current plex prices.
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