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Remote Rep Inhibitor bubbles
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Fratro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-11 20:43:57 UTC
From my point of view there is a real problem with massive remove reps in this game.

Say a titan pilot makes a mistake and gets trapped.

If his alliance is big enough (PL/CFC/N3) they can now just jump in 100 slow cats and rep until downtime or TIDI the node to hell.

Without remote reps, the larger/stronger fleet might still win a fight but at least they would take losses.

Right now there really is no reason at all to undock once one alliance breaks out a pack of slowcats.

What if a hero dictor like ship could deploy a bubble or deployable module that for a short while disabled remote reps?

Currenly "invincible" ships could at least be killed at some cost to the attacking fleet.
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2013-12-11 21:48:09 UTC
But then the issue continues that it takes supers to kill supers and now to kill supers you need to suicide fit your supers to do it.
And it means that the null blocks can wipe out the groups that have fewer super than them because they could replace ships the smaller groups can't.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-11 22:07:28 UTC
These bubbles, best idea I've seen in a long time.

No, you don't need supers to kill supers. But yeah, a whole bunch of carriers spider tanking will pretty much prevent you from doing anything. There is too much dependency on them for sure. And once you field 300, and unload your drones, you are effectively representing 1500 pilots in local (node cpu usage). Escalating at this point risks the node going down, which...is probably exactly what the defending fleet wants to happen.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#4 - 2013-12-11 22:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Fratro wrote:
From my point of view there is a real problem with massive remove reps in this game.

Say a titan pilot makes a mistake and gets trapped.

If his alliance is big enough (PL/CFC/N3) they can now just jump in 100 slow cats and rep until downtime or TIDI the node to hell.

Without remote reps, the larger/stronger fleet might still win a fight but at least they would take losses.

Right now there really is no reason at all to undock once one alliance breaks out a pack of slowcats.

What if a hero dictor like ship could deploy a bubble or deployable module that for a short while disabled remote reps?

Currenly "invincible" ships could at least be killed at some cost to the attacking fleet.


Or you can just bump that titan out of rep range and bubble carriers so they cannot jump again...

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Karma Codolle
Chimera Research and Development
#5 - 2013-12-12 07:18:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Karma Codolle
Hmmm something that could stop remote repping, a module of sorts that would jam their ability to rep other ships?

hmmmm where ever would we find something like that...

I imagine it would be like some sort of Electronic Counter Measure

Or perhaps since we need to effect a large area perhaps some sort of Electronic Counter Measure that would burst effecting a large area....
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#6 - 2013-12-12 07:35:13 UTC
Karma Codolle wrote:
Hmmm something that could stop remote repping, a module of sorts that would jam their ability to rep other ships?

hmmmm where ever would we find something like that...

I imagine it would be like some sort of Electronic Counter Measure

Or perhaps since we need to effect a large area perhaps some sort of Electronic Counter Measure that would burst effecting a large area....


Not really advocating this idea. BUt ECM doesnt work against Most caps.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-12-12 11:15:13 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Karma Codolle wrote:
Hmmm something that could stop remote repping, a module of sorts that would jam their ability to rep other ships?

hmmmm where ever would we find something like that...

I imagine it would be like some sort of Electronic Counter Measure

Or perhaps since we need to effect a large area perhaps some sort of Electronic Counter Measure that would burst effecting a large area....


Not really advocating this idea. BUt ECM doesnt work against Most caps.

EWAR doesn't work against Super Capitals and Titans. It works against carriers and dreads.

She's suggesting to use Remote ECM Bursts from Supers against the repping carriers. Which could work. This would require the attacking party to bring Supers though.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2013-12-12 15:17:23 UTC
For the sake of balance, I think any such bubbles, if implemented, should only reduce the efficiency of remote reps, not disable them completely. Perhaps multiple bubbles could result in further decreased efficiency per normal stacking penalty rules. Also, perhaps the bubbles could be possibly targeted and destroyed. I'm concerned they'd be too much of a hard counter outside of supercap fights, especially if they were deployed from a common roaming ship like a light dictor.

As far as the current state of the game goes, why would you continue shooting a titan that has 300 carriers repping it? Wouldn't you be better served steadily picking off carriers? Because eventually you're going to inflict more damage on the enemy that way, and they will definitely be easier targets...

Regarding design philosophy, I think a fleet with complete subcap dominance should be able to pretty much have their way with capital ships, but if the opposition has a titan + hundreds of carriers, then it might be a little much to expect to kill the titan without committing any dreads.

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Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#9 - 2013-12-12 17:09:25 UTC
The OP has single handedly killed sub capital logistics.

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Gnadolin
Space Pioneers
#10 - 2013-12-12 19:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Gnadolin
The OP has no idea how the game works.And is mad that supers dont die when he looks at them.
So mad, that he throws out an idea without thinking about what this would mean.
Karma Codolle
Chimera Research and Development
#11 - 2013-12-13 03:50:33 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Karma Codolle wrote:
Hmmm something that could stop remote repping, a module of sorts that would jam their ability to rep other ships?

hmmmm where ever would we find something like that...

I imagine it would be like some sort of Electronic Counter Measure

Or perhaps since we need to effect a large area perhaps some sort of Electronic Counter Measure that would burst effecting a large area....


Not really advocating this idea. BUt ECM doesnt work against Most caps.


It works against the capitals in question that this topic was about. I.E spider tanking carriers

Cebraio wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Karma Codolle wrote:
Hmmm something that could stop remote repping, a module of sorts that would jam their ability to rep other ships?

hmmmm where ever would we find something like that...

I imagine it would be like some sort of Electronic Counter Measure

Or perhaps since we need to effect a large area perhaps some sort of Electronic Counter Measure that would burst effecting a large area....


Not really advocating this idea. BUt ECM doesnt work against Most caps.

EWAR doesn't work against Super Capitals and Titans. It works against carriers and dreads.

She's suggesting to use Remote ECM Bursts from Supers against the repping carriers. Which could work. This would require the attacking party to bring Supers though.


Actually I was referring to the non super module. The one that can be fitted to a scorpion and effect a pretty nice range with high strength. Super would work too, but not as many have access to that. Everyone has access to scorpions though.

and they can work fairly well against capitals. playing around with corp mates i can jam them with it on occasions and i only have lvl 4 skills
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#12 - 2013-12-13 05:31:36 UTC
Outright stopping RR? I don't think that's a good idea.

Having a means of reducing the effectiveness of RR? That seems like something that could possibly improve the game.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#13 - 2013-12-13 05:39:06 UTC
ECM doesn't work that great against carriers though, and all the ECM ships are very squishy and are downed in a volley or 2 from a single carrier with sentrys or lights.


As far as removing RR, no, bad idea, bad juju.

Perhaps adding a sensor damp bomb, Like the current ECM bomb, lowers sensor rezolution for 10 seconds or so (doesn't sound like much, but a steady stream of these could keep a carrier fleet from locking anything for several seconds), then have ECM bombers work together with damp bombers to kill off RR in a carrier fleet for a short time.


Ofcourse wouldn't work on triage carriers, but would give dreads a time to focusfire them down.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#14 - 2013-12-13 06:42:40 UTC
Yeah, currently the subcap meta with medium-large groups is heavily logistics dependent. An AOE counter that totally blocks logistics would be incredibly overpowered and could turn that meta on its head.

If you want a balanced device, something that reduces resistances remotely (with stacking penalties for multiple being applied of course) might be interesting- it doesn't prevent 100 carriers being on field, but its effectiveness multiplies the bigger the blob is.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2013-12-13 07:10:59 UTC
Lockbreaker bombs exist, use them extensively first then worry about any new mechanics if they don't work at all.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-12-13 07:38:00 UTC
Did imagine some sort of RR interference (even at cap level) would be a neat thing and layer of tactics to add.

But for balance I wouldn't think such a thing would be a 'deployable' but rather a target module in the lines of our known EWAR. Takes up a mid slot, has certain range, must be on a targeted ship, uses cap, etc. But what it does is interfere with the nanites resulting in say x % reduction in RR efficiency. Or the shield RR version being something about affecting the frequency of transfer energies.

But as a deplyable bubble or similar, no. Something like a RR interference must be something you plan and fit to. Can't have your same fit AND get the RR interference. Gotta make some choices there.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#17 - 2013-12-14 02:28:26 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lockbreaker bombs exist, use them extensively first then worry about any new mechanics if they don't work at all.


They do exist, but have severely limited effectiveness in actual engagements.
They only break the lock, and don't have a timed "target jamming" like real ECM, so they're only slightly useful.
They could potentially be extremely effective for mid sized gangs to large fleets if there was a bomber wing loaded out with them dropping 1 of them on the enemy once every 15-20 seconds.

But they're useless against carriers, and they're useless against drones, which if they weren't they would be extremely effective at lessening dps from slowcats or other sentry fleets.



Also, sensor range dampening bombs could potentially be great against sniper fleets. Scanrez damps great for breaking through gatecamps. Similarly tracking/falloff bombs would be handy for any engagement.

Not saying I really want any of them in the game. I'd just rather like to see them at least entertain the idea on the test server.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2013-12-14 03:46:58 UTC
To direct drone firepower, you have to be locked, so they are great at disrupting slowcat fleets if used accurately & regularly.
They are also great at breaking logi, (including non triaged carriers) since you get a window while they have to relock the DPS targets & then especially with armour fleets, they then have to cycle their reps again.

Certainly Triaged carriers aren't affected, but if you have triaged carriers you should killing them before they can break triage since they are on local rep only, and a triaged carrier being immune to all remote effects should stay immune to any remote rep/sensor damp/etc anchor.

Of course most people fly single ship type F1 fleets which don't have that kind of back up or mixed weapons use.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#19 - 2013-12-14 04:34:27 UTC
Drag/catch bubbles. Hictor bubbles. Dictor bubbles. Now remote rep bubbles?

Features & Ideas: Turning nullsec into a bubble-filled fairy land, one bad suggestion at a time.™
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
#20 - 2013-12-14 04:44:23 UTC
To be honest, I'd like to see a general remote rep nerf as opposed to a remote rep inhibitor bubbles.

Why?

Back in the day, it used to be possible for a small group or even a solo player to effectively take on a larger gang through superior piloting and tactics. Unfortunately, the ubiquitous nature of remote reps in today's PvP has made that even more difficult than it was to begin with, suppressing certain playstyles that used to be highly enjoyable.