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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#1341 - 2013-12-11 05:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
What battleship is able to travel safely anywhere BUT high sec? Oh yea none. That's why you have them brought out OR come out in a big gang. Doesn't need bastion, or covert ops. Do some of you honestly think before you post this stuff? Only thing that MIGHT be nice, but honestly isn't needed is allowing it to jump through cynos. It has enough bonuses, and as long as you are creative you will be able to find a few uses for the ship. Lay out is fine also. Leave her be. She already has an ungodly amount of bonuses and will be able to have a good role in PvE, WHs, exploring, and prob even PvP. Stop asking for more, if you aren't happen with it, don't fly it.


What other battleships have been designed as exploration ships? ... That's right, none!

You been posting weak arguments for 68 pages now, it's time to stop. An exploration ship needs to be able to travel from system to system in relative safety to do its job, so the Nestor needs some navigational bonus.

The ship wouldn't be OP with a covert cloak but if that is the worry, CCP could reduce the turret slots down to 3 or something. I think 90% of people in this thread would prefer that.
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#1342 - 2013-12-11 06:11:46 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
What battleship is able to travel safely anywhere BUT high sec? Oh yea none. That's why you have them brought out OR come out in a big gang. Doesn't need bastion, or covert ops. Do some of you honestly think before you post this stuff? Only thing that MIGHT be nice, but honestly isn't needed is allowing it to jump through cynos. It has enough bonuses, and as long as you are creative you will be able to find a few uses for the ship. Lay out is fine also. Leave her be. She already has an ungodly amount of bonuses and will be able to have a good role in PvE, WHs, exploring, and prob even PvP. Stop asking for more, if you aren't happen with it, don't fly it.


What other battleships have been designed as exploration ships? ... That's right, none!

You been posting weak arguments for 68 pages now, it's time to stop. An exploration ship needs to be able to travel from system to system in relative safety to do its job, so the Nestor needs some navigational bonus.

The ship wouldn't be OP with a covert cloak but if that is the worry, CCP could reduce the turret slots down to 3 or something. I think 90% of people in this thread would prefer that.

Jump drive makes more sense, people are afraid that "they will be to stronk" etc, but something to consider is the low jump range of a BO and its limited fuel bay., it wouldn't be that strong. Don't give the ship a jump portal and you can't bring an alt around in a covert ops hauler carrying a million tons of fuel, forcing you to be smart about where you jump or how you use it.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1343 - 2013-12-11 06:28:54 UTC
@Thaddeus Eggeras

I was going to post a long answear to your question with lots of arguments and seriously trying to make you understand my viewpoint even if you would not agree.

But then I saw this...

Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
The primiary drones in PvP huh. I'm guessing you don't PvP much huh. I see EC 300s, warriors, hobgoblins a TON more then I see sentries is PvP. Sentries are rarely used in PvP. I see them much more in PvE.

And I have covered why the Nestor won't cost 2bil or more, I won't go over it again. Plan for the first couple months it costly about that but it will go down.


... and knew you are way too disconnected from reality for any more typing not being a waste on you. Sorry man I cannot take you serious anymore. Go farm your Lvl4's.

Disciple Cax wrote:
In exploring, it still doesn't need the virus or probing bonuses as it is better in every situation to use a more nimble ship with covert cloak to move around and find sites. It does however have a great set of attributes to run complexes especially with an RR partner. It is perfect to be an exploration command ship, jumping into to pick up loot or run complexes, provide repairs, restock supplies, or move your loot out of a deep null sec system.

Maybe if we think on it, we could come up with something else very interesting for it to do in relation to exploration as a type of exploration command ship.


I agree. Even if the bonuses are "free" they are still wasted, because nobody in their right mind would scan or hack with the current iteration - or any battleship. Instead the exploration theme together with a support role would mean to support the guy who is scanning to finish complexes.

My idea was a covert jump drive exactly, but I would take very good care not to give it too much cargo for the exact reason that it could be used as a transport for billions of loot. The jump drive has to be covert though, because otherwise I would still just continue to use a carrier for exploration.

Additionaly regarding the drones argument I would still prefer to remove the drone damage bonus, in favor of a weapon damage bonus or additional turrets and replace the repair bonuses for the modules with a drone transfer amount bonus.
Drone damage bonus is just the same old again, creating a dominix copy. Why not create something that can rep and does damage, just in new ways. And if you don't want to rep you can still used (unbonused) drones for damage. You'd have to make the same decision what to take with you and the ship still stays in line with the two primary SOE races.
And yes further delayed reps because of drones are infact intended by me, because in conjunction with a covert jumpdrive I never want to see the kind of rep bonuses the Nestor has in it's current iteration.

Mordecay Toth wrote:

maybe like this:
[url]http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mejsr4op/Nestor.jpg[/url]Nestor


I like this design very much. There was one though that additionaly had this half-ring thingy which I even like more.

.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#1344 - 2013-12-11 07:03:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi

I am very relieved to finally show you the Sisters of EVE Battleship, the Nestor. We weren't able to get it finalized before Rubicon went out, but that's alright because now it makes a nice Christmas present (just kidding it's not until (late)January).

We all agreed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship. Instead, we've kept the rest of the exploration feel from the Stratios and Astero by giving the Nestor hacking and probing bonuses, but instead of cloaking it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, the Nestor (as designed currently) has incredibly low mass - around half the mass of a normal Battleship. This should make it very popular in wormholes. The rest of the attribute layout follows the principles from the other Sisters of EVE ships pretty closely, as do the bonuses.

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
100% bonus to remote armor repairer range
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700

It will be acquired in the same way that the Stratios and Astero are, via Sisters of EVE LP stores. Here are the LP offer specifics:

Nestor
1,000,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor (From the Sanctuary)
800,000 LP
80,000,000 ISK

Nestor Blueprint
600,000 LP
150,000,000 ISK

Discount Nestor Blueprint (From the Sanctuary)
400,000 LP
100,000,000 ISK

I wanted to show you guys some art, but wasn't able to get ahold of the newest version today so I'll edit later with it.

Hope this is exciting! Let me know
o/

STEALTH EDIT by Manifest brings high res concept art: http://bit.ly/1izOFm4




still needs more scan res, drone bay, and less lp cost to bring it in line with other pirate BSs

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#1345 - 2013-12-11 07:25:14 UTC
Savira Terrant, you explore with Carrier support? Nice.

As to the Nestor, I feel like the discussion has grown stale. All the major players have made their cases and defended them well against questioning, griefers have been exposed, and all arguments have been considered and posted on by those interested. Currently all we are doing is rehashing old points and building grudges against one another. This isn't helping any of our cases and just degrades our arguments. I'm sure that Rise and his team will take all our thoughts into account but the best way for us to ensure that they don't just get frustrated with us is if we keep the floor open to new and rational ideas and let them work out how best to utilize the ones that we have already expressed. At least until Rise's next post, at which point all bets are off Twisted.

Personally, I have enjoyed discussing things with you and if I happen to see any of you on the space lanes I will be sure to wave (I might not decloak though Big smile)
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1346 - 2013-12-11 08:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Right, so.

Who likes pie?

I bet CCP Rise likes pie.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1347 - 2013-12-11 08:15:23 UTC
Roy Alleyne wrote:
As to the Nestor, I feel like the discussion has grown stale. All the major players have made their cases and defended them well against questioning, griefers have been exposed, and all arguments have been considered and posted on by those interested. Currently all we are doing is rehashing old points...


You have a good point here (for once P). I guess the fear is that after waiting for so long for a reaction from CCP, that not voicing concerns continuously gives them the impression we either don't care anymore or this ship was alright as it is.

.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1348 - 2013-12-11 08:45:27 UTC
Mordecay Toth wrote:

maybe like this:
[url]http://www.imagebanana.com/view/mejsr4op/Nestor.jpg[/url]Nestor


That is infinity better that the kitchen utensil looking thing CCP have come up with! Well done.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1349 - 2013-12-11 09:27:22 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Okay, another short update:

Adding role bonus: 100% bonus to remote armor repairer range

We agreed that this will make quality of life a lot better when attempting to use the remote repair bonus without adding too much power.

Possibly a more detailed post in a couple hours regarding the discussion on black ops/bridging/cloaking and the all-over-the-place design, but I'm super busy atm and just wanted to make sure you guys knew about this change as soon as possible.

Thanks



Although this addition does fix the range issue, I think I'm not alone when I say a better solution would have simply been to double the range of all repair modules and half the range bonuses on the hulls. This way the modules aren't completely limited to range bonused hulls and it removes yet another role bonus from this already silly number of role bonuses for this ship.


CCP Rise: Would this not be a better solution?
Sul Glass
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#1350 - 2013-12-11 10:41:04 UTC
Sorry, late to this but .............. Warp Cloaked BS please. That is all.

Sul,
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1351 - 2013-12-11 11:53:14 UTC
Sul Glass wrote:
Sorry, late to this but .............. Warp Cloaked BS please. That is all.

Sul,



Negative goatrider. The pattern is full.

It has already been stated (by CCP) that a T1 battleship having covert ops cloak capability is undesirable.

It was mentioned that BLOPs may, MAY, get this ability in their rebalance pass soonTM.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1352 - 2013-12-11 12:18:47 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Sul Glass wrote:
Sorry, late to this but .............. Warp Cloaked BS please. That is all.

Sul,



Negative goatrider. The pattern is full.

It has already been stated (by CCP) that a T1 battleship having covert ops cloak capability is undesirable.

It was mentioned that BLOPs may, MAY, get this ability in their rebalance pass soonTM.


of course this position is not consistent with the SoE t1 cruiser and frigate being able to warp cloaked.

making the Nestor a mini-blops combat support vessel seems to make the most sense to me

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#1353 - 2013-12-11 12:20:40 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Roy Alleyne wrote:
As to the Nestor, I feel like the discussion has grown stale. All the major players have made their cases and defended them well against questioning, griefers have been exposed, and all arguments have been considered and posted on by those interested. Currently all we are doing is rehashing old points...


You have a good point here (for once P). I guess the fear is that after waiting for so long for a reaction from CCP, that not voicing concerns continuously gives them the impression we either don't care anymore or this ship was alright as it is.


Lol, you do have an exelent point, though I fear that just by voicing the concern you have dispelled the possibility of that... making your argument invalid... just thinking about that loop makes my brain hurt, I guess it's time to get back in the pod. Blink
Rio Bravo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1354 - 2013-12-11 14:12:06 UTC
I think this horse is dead.

/me kick

“You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. I dig.”  - Clint Eastwood, misquote.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1355 - 2013-12-11 14:26:47 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Sul Glass wrote:
Sorry, late to this but .............. Warp Cloaked BS please. That is all.

Sul,



Negative goatrider. The pattern is full.

It has already been stated (by CCP) that a T1 battleship having covert ops cloak capability is undesirable.

It was mentioned that BLOPs may, MAY, get this ability in their rebalance pass soonTM.


of course this position is not consistent with the SoE t1 cruiser and frigate being able to warp cloaked.

making the Nestor a mini-blops combat support vessel seems to make the most sense to me



Doesn't have the have the portal, but just a jump drive that can hit covert cynos
Kirluin
#1356 - 2013-12-11 14:28:12 UTC
I think that you can keep the Nestor in line with the Sisters ship concept without giving it the same hack/probe bonus. A role that is complementary to those two ships would work just as well (think, what would an all-sisters fleet need in their battleship? Not another hacker.)

The support roles already mentioned in this thread go well with this: reps, bonus to regular cloaked speed (not covops), and a ship maintenance bay. Possibly able to fit command links like a battlecruiser with fitting tradeoffs. THAT's an emergency response fleet flagship and backbone.

It would also be in-theme to recast this ship as a pirate black ops, modifying skill requirements accordingly and thereby justifying the pricetag. Then all the sisters ships could jump together and be a cohesive force for exploration, support, rescue etc. Perfect science fleet.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1357 - 2013-12-11 15:03:16 UTC
The problem with giving the Nestor a jump drive instead of a cloak is that the jump drive is only useful in low/null sec. From what CCP say, they are designing the ship with wormhole space in mind.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Kazaker
Faceless Ronins
COASTAL BROTHERHOOD
#1358 - 2013-12-11 15:23:48 UTC
For WH this ship is nice. But in line with other SoE ships it should be faction Black Ops. Already we have faction BS that fits as maraders (Nightmare, Baalghorn) with some pirate improvements.
I think CCP just need to add jump drive and covert portal, delete scan bonuses (they are useless on BS size). Than this ship can be support for BO's or a good PvE vessel. No bonuses like BO (speed, agility, recalibration or it will be OP).
So we will have faction BO with some new bonuses as we now have faction maraders.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1359 - 2013-12-11 15:30:18 UTC
^ Not true at all. No faction ship is like a marauder but whatever...

If you want black ops capabilities, why don't you train for a black ops ship?

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1360 - 2013-12-11 15:50:10 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
^ Not true at all. No faction ship is like a marauder but whatever...

If you want black ops capabilities, why don't you train for a black ops ship?



You would still require the support skills to use the jump drive and portal. The only difference being that you would be paying an extra billion to use this without having to train BLOPs ship skill. Seems fair to me.