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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1301 - 2013-12-10 20:34:59 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
What battleship is able to travel safely anywhere BUT high sec? Oh yea none. That's why you have them brought out OR come out in a big gang. Doesn't need bastion, or covert ops. Do some of you honestly think before you post this stuff? Only thing that MIGHT be nice, but honestly isn't needed is allowing it to jump through cynos. It has enough bonuses, and as long as you are creative you will be able to find a few uses for the ship. Lay out is fine also. Leave her be. She already has an ungodly amount of bonuses and will be able to have a good role in PvE, WHs, exploring, and prob even PvP. Stop asking for more, if you aren't happen with it, don't fly it.


A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1302 - 2013-12-10 21:05:24 UTC
Quote:
A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability.


So ONE ship out of ALL the battleships, and you think this should be able to also? No, maybe regular cynos, but I don't think covert cynos. It already has WAY too much to it. This can travel, just like ALL other battleships, in a gang or in a JF or carrier
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1303 - 2013-12-10 21:20:29 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability.


So ONE ship out of ALL the battleships, and you think this should be able to also? No, maybe regular cynos, but I don't think covert cynos. It already has WAY too much to it. This can travel, just like ALL other battleships, in a gang or in a JF or carrier


Yes. The exploration themed battleship should have the capability to explore. If they called the Machariel an exploration ship I'd say the same thing about it. 
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1304 - 2013-12-10 21:23:33 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
A Black Ops battleship with a t3 covert/nullifier cyno scout can get pretty much anywhere in the universe and there's not much anyone could do to stop it. Whether or not it can do anything once it's there is another question, but the point is there's at least a means for it to travel. The Nestor has no such capability.


So ONE ship out of ALL the battleships, and you think this should be able to also? No, maybe regular cynos, but I don't think covert cynos. It already has WAY too much to it. This can travel, just like ALL other battleships, in a gang or in a JF or carrier

Looking at the SOE ships thus far we have a covert ops cloaking frigate where only cov-ops and bombers were before and a cov-ops cruiser where only force recons were. I definitely think that B-ops based capabilities follow the trend, even if only for it's own transport, disallowing it to be used to transport other cov-ops capable ships.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1305 - 2013-12-10 21:28:45 UTC
It can explore just fine, all you have to do is get it to where you live, and that isn't hard. Get a JF, carrier or gang. Doesn't need the same bonus as a blockops and if it did get it it would be VERY OP. regular cyno is good enough, or take it to where ever you live like everyone else does with their ships. Really not that hard. If you can do 10 sites, sancs, rat, mine etc you can use this to explore, and do PvE also. People always want more and more and more when it isn't needed...
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1306 - 2013-12-10 21:36:09 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
It can explore just fine, all you have to do is get it to where you live, and that isn't hard. Get a JF, carrier or gang. Doesn't need the same bonus as a blockops and if it did get it it would be VERY OP. regular cyno is good enough, or take it to where ever you live like everyone else does with their ships. Really not that hard. If you can do 10 sites, sancs, rat, mine etc you can use this to explore, and do PvE also. People always want more and more and more when it isn't needed...

Considering black-ops are generally considered anything but OP and this only really adds scanning, virus strength and an RR ability that many consider largely useless, how would this be considered OP?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1307 - 2013-12-10 21:43:49 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
on the other hand, 10 unbonused drones will die to smart bombs twice as fast, so it's swings and roundabouts. on that note I'd like to see the 20%/level bonus applied to utility drones as well as dps drones. that's because I am a perfect domi & Ishtar pilot and I'm totally unbiased :-)

My proposal was actually calling for 10 bonused drones. Crazy, I know. Again, limited by the fact that the bandwidth would be at most 125 so if you want to use sentries or heavies you have to use 5 like everyone else.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1308 - 2013-12-10 22:02:01 UTC
Black ops, don't have a bonus to repair, or scanning, or lasers and drones both. This ship can do much more then ANY black ops, and also has MUCH less mass making it able to do things other BSs would only dream of. Doesn't need to be able to jump through covert cynos, doesn't need covert cloak, or bastion. Good as is and isnt useless at all. Just because you aren't creative enough to see how it can use it's RR is on you no one else.

Doesn't need more drones either, 5 lasers + 5 sentries is MORE then powerful enough, Even 5 sentries or 5 heavies or 5 mediums or 5 scouts and using the RR if done right would be a hard nut to crack. 7 highs, you could fi a good dea of cap tranfers and RR on her.

Funny Domi can cap transfer and RR just fine but somehow these won't be able just as good, no wait they will better. These IF used right will be a mean boat to fight, a gang of them with tacklers will be no joke. And in PvE, WH, etc they will work very well too. Ghost sites and other exploring sites they will do well also.

Stop asking for things that clearly won't happen, and in all honestly it doesn't need.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1309 - 2013-12-10 22:24:01 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Stop asking for things that clearly won't happen, and in all honestly it doesn't need.


.... No.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1310 - 2013-12-10 22:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Doesn't need more drones either, 5 lasers + 5 sentries is MORE then powerful enough

I'm SICK of sentries. EVERY ******* DRONE BOAT THAT GETS USED IS SENTRIES and nobody uses anything else except in PVE sometimes. CCP does NOT need to add more of this tired bullshit. Completely unimaginative and boring.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1311 - 2013-12-10 22:35:34 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Black ops, don't have a bonus to repair, or scanning, or lasers and drones both. This ship can do much more then ANY black ops, and also has MUCH less mass making it able to do things other BSs would only dream of. Doesn't need to be able to jump through covert cynos, doesn't need covert cloak, or bastion. Good as is and isnt useless at all. Just because you aren't creative enough to see how it can use it's RR is on you no one else.

Doesn't need more drones either, 5 lasers + 5 sentries is MORE then powerful enough, Even 5 sentries or 5 heavies or 5 mediums or 5 scouts and using the RR if done right would be a hard nut to crack. 7 highs, you could fi a good dea of cap tranfers and RR on her.

Funny Domi can cap transfer and RR just fine but somehow these won't be able just as good, no wait they will better. These IF used right will be a mean boat to fight, a gang of them with tacklers will be no joke. And in PvE, WH, etc they will work very well too. Ghost sites and other exploring sites they will do well also.

Stop asking for things that clearly won't happen, and in all honestly it doesn't need.

Damage unbonused lasers vs damage bonused hybrids doesn't seem to create such an obvious imbalance in my mind. Scanning bonuses, you'd have to explain how those would make it OP. I'm not seeing it, and simply because it has bonuses does not an op ship make as being able to put those bonuses to use in an imbalanced way is what makes something op.

The RR is a good point, but I'd question the likelyhood of people fielding these in numbers with the likely cost to be associated with them. For the flexibility of fielding them with smaller, cov-ops capable ships like their smaller counterparts, or ships as part of a B-ops gang I'd probably be willing to give the RR up.

Regarding the mass, I don't know the specific math behind prop mods, but it seems the other stats were nerfed to account for that so we have a ship that is disadvantaged without a prop mod and fits into WH's better. Seems to be an overall neutral change.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#1312 - 2013-12-10 22:49:29 UTC
Give it a jump drive and the ability to jump to both cyno types, or scrap it altogether.

Not going to get used for exploration if you don't. Not by any smart pilot anyways. Also drones. What is ccp thinking. CCP needs to get rid of drones altogether. Too cpu intensive. I'm pretty sure CCP knows what happens to the node when big fleets start dumping out drones by the thousands. I'm shocked they jump at the opportunity to add to that problem.
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1313 - 2013-12-10 22:51:14 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Roy Alleyne wrote:

This is exactly why I didn't want to dredge up the mini carrier thing again. There is no point to fielding more than 5 drones. The only reason Carriers can launch more is because it is kinda their 'thing'. It is much better to just apply bonuses to drone use both for server load considerations and for a plethora of logistics (as in service) problems for players, including having to manage more drones both on and off the battlefield just to achieve the same effect. If the Nestor does move toward the role of a mini carrier, it will be from the fleet logistics (again as in service) manager angle, not the 'fields tons of drones for no reason' angle.

Well there is a point to it- it spreads out the damage, first of all, making them harder to take down completely, and it'd honestly be a lot of fun.

I want the ship to stay exactly the way it is now, but it could go this way if it wanted to-

Nestor

Amarr BS Bonus:
4% bonus to armor resistances per level

Gallente BS Bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking, and velocity
50% bonus to armor repair drone effectiveness
50% bonus to optimal range of Large Energy Turrets
625% bonus to cloaked velocity

Drones under the Nestor's control will not be targeted by sleeper drones

Slots: 6H, 6M, 7L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers

625m3 drone bay, and 200mbit/sec bandwidth, so it's limited to 8 heavies/sentries

Ship Maintenance Bay: 350,000 m3

It could work, and I'd like to fly it Big smile

However, the current Nestor is awesome already Cool


Unfortunately the nester will not use a covert ops cloaks, effectively making it a utterly useless.
Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#1314 - 2013-12-10 22:54:32 UTC
Well first off sentries are great if used right, and sounds to me someone might need a hug.

And the ship will do many things, and if your issue is price, well enjoy being a slave to the KBs, and don't worry not everyone is. So sometimes they will be used for PvP, Can logi AND still put out good DPS in PvP. I think they will be rare in PvP but you wil lsee them. Great for WHs and ghost sites. Good for regualr exploring. Good for missioning, incurs, 10 sites and haven/sancs. So it can be used for pretty much anything BUT mining. So I guess it needs more, no wait it doesn't.
XvXTeacherVxV
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1315 - 2013-12-10 23:00:54 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Give it a jump drive and the ability to jump to both cyno types, or scrap it altogether.

Not going to get used for exploration if you don't. Not by any smart pilot anyways. Also drones. What is ccp thinking. CCP needs to get rid of drones altogether. Too cpu intensive. I'm pretty sure CCP knows what happens to the node when big fleets start dumping out drones by the thousands. I'm shocked they jump at the opportunity to add to that problem.


I agree with your first point but worst-case scenario, the Nestor's contribution to node troubles will be negligible. Unless some of the richer alliances decide to do Nestor-doctrines but frankly, it'd be worth the node trouble just to see that in action.
Can you see the rapier?: http://imgur.com/aFelCpv,GH6lqDE
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1316 - 2013-12-10 23:14:28 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Give it a jump drive and the ability to jump to both cyno types, or scrap it altogether.

Not going to get used for exploration if you don't. Not by any smart pilot anyways. Also drones. What is ccp thinking. CCP needs to get rid of drones altogether. Too cpu intensive. I'm pretty sure CCP knows what happens to the node when big fleets start dumping out drones by the thousands. I'm shocked they jump at the opportunity to add to that problem.
Why are people associating the Nestor to large fleet fights?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1317 - 2013-12-10 23:17:24 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Well first off sentries are great if used right

Of course they are, which is why they're the only drone anybody bothers using as a primary DPS source in PVP.
This is mainly due to the fact that until very recently CCP has been extremely unimaginative with drone bonuses and think that damage/HP is the only thing that counted. They're also stuck in the paradigms of "more bandwidth is always better" and "5 drones max always".

Heavies SOMETIMES get used in PVE as primary DPS, but that's only on ships (Ishtar, Eos namely) that give bonuses to their speed and tracking.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Vincintius Agrippa
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#1318 - 2013-12-10 23:18:02 UTC
Roy Alleyne wrote:
Vincintius Agrippa wrote:

I an actually in favor of a mini drone carrier. I feel that what we need it, bad. from each race. Predominate traits: Can field 1 extra drone per level. Can field 10 heavy drones (250Mbit). Various drone bonuses


Vincintius Agrippa wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Of course it'll never be implemented, because people are irrationally afraid of the idea of a ship having more than 5 drones that isn't a capital or a limited edition.

And CCP's stuck on their vision for the ship - bonuses to everything, and consequently useful for nothing. Because people just love flying the Gnosis.


If I remember correctly, ships smaller than capitols used to be able to launch 10 drones. CCP nerfed because of server load. Which is why I suspect they have such blatant hatred for missiles.

Shame on you CCP NERFZILLA and CCP FIZZLEWAFFE!


Upgrade you servers *******.


This is exactly why I didn't want to dredge up the mini carrier thing again. There is no point to fielding more than 5 drones. The only reason Carriers can launch more is because it is kinda their 'thing'. It is much better to just apply bonuses to drone use both for server load considerations and for a plethora of logistics (as in service) problems for players, including having to manage more drones both on and off the battlefield just to achieve the same effect. If the Nestor does move toward the role of a mini carrier, it will be from the fleet logistics (again as in service) manager angle, not the 'fields tons of drones for no reason' angle.

Only YOU can prevent internet bullying!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1319 - 2013-12-10 23:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Maybe 20% drone damage/HP per level, 50 bandwidth/300 bay?

Equivalent to the 10 medium proposal with the standard bonus, except with 5 mediums instead.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1320 - 2013-12-10 23:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
New proposal (changes to the OP's stats are in bold, deletions are struck through):

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
20% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
100% bonus to shield and armor maintenance bot transfer amount
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
100% bonus to remote armor repairer range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50/300
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700

Enjoying the rain today? ;)