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Can't play back music, but can stream video?
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1 - 2013-12-10 13:29:46 UTC
Roughly one year ago, the ingame jukebox was removed and we were forced to use 3rd party applications and resources to as much as play EVE's music.

The reason stated was:

Quote:

Maintaining an mp3 player inside EVE, while there are much better media players out there doesn‘t make much sense to us. Keep in mind that all code in EVE needs to be maintained. UIs are upgraded, codecs need upgrading, code is refactored, defects need to be resolved. By removing redundant pieces of code from our codebase, we free up engineering time to maintain, iterate and develop other features which are more important and core to the spaceship game EVE. As we move forward with EVE development, iterating and adding features, we have to be ready to cut off dead branches and prune our garden so to speak.


Now, we just got a Twitch video streamer, albeit it is sub-par compared to any 3rd party application, and certainly the demand for it was like... Scarce? Unexistant?

I am not to tell CCP how to spend their resources, but killing a very useful function (playing music ingame) because of ~resources~ and then develop a video streaming function that wasn't asked for and is not up to the bare essential functions (no delaying, no obscuring of sensitive information), looks weird to my eyes.

Why a music players is "expensive", despite players actually demand it, whereas a redundant sub-par streamer has taken any amount of resources?

Can we call the streamer someone's pet project?

What will it take until we can play back EVE music within EVE?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-12-10 13:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
From the devblog, streaming simply required implementing the Twitch SDK into EVE. This is much much less programmer work than designing and integrating a full separate application into the client. CCP didn't have to build a full streaming client from the ground up, they just used the code provided by Twitch.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-12-10 13:44:46 UTC
It's because streaming is a growing trend at the moment and because Twitch has gone to great lengths to make integration of their system easy as possible for developers.

To quote Twitch on this issue:

Quote:
The Twitch SDK takes care of authentication, video and audio encoding, audio capture, and streaming to Twitch servers. The game needs to provide a simple UI for basic settings and user login; beyond that it just supplies its frame buer to the SDK which takes care of the rest.


Quote:

Most partners are able to complete it(the integration) in less than a week.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#4 - 2013-12-10 13:44:52 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
we were forced


Most inaccurate and annoying phrase in this forum

GAWD

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Davon Mandra'thin
Das Collective
#5 - 2013-12-10 13:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Davon Mandra'thin
Quote:

Most partners are able to complete it(the integration) in less than a week.


That's good to hear. With all the things the player-base are screaming out for, Twitch integration was not one of them. I suppose you could say the same thing about their manufacturable star gate scheme. At least they didn't spend too much time on this, because that would have been a real kick in the teeth for a lot of people.

There is, of course, the added insult that we can't actually watch those streams in the ingame browser. 'You can now stream without having a browser open! Yay!' But you can't watch the stream.

/me facepalm.*

I also think very few people will use it. You could use it for some less public stuff like broadcasting the fleet scouts screen, or doing tutorials for your corporation etc (even then, the people watching will have to go to an external browser to watch the damn stream). But no one will be able to use it for proper events because, as people are saying, you can't cover sensitive information. For anything substantial people are just going to go back to their browser.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What will it take until we can play back EVE music within EVE?


There is some very limited function in Eve to choose which music is playing. Obviously, you can't choose music that comes from lowsec or nullsec if your in highsec, but you can skip tracks. Press escape, reduce the music volume to 0, and then bring it back up again. That will skip the track.
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#6 - 2013-12-10 15:33:33 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

Can we call the streamer someone's pet project?

What will it take until we can play back EVE music within EVE?


The 'Bring Back Jukebox' thread is still ongoing, and like the 'fix POS/sov/other issues' thread, will be dealt with slightly after the release of the next entry in the Duke Nukem franchise.

In the mean time brace yourself for more broken content and nullsec only toys.





I'll also point out that one of the basic programming courses at my local college has the class create an mp3 player. They're not very complicated, they used an mp3 decoder in the game to begin with as that was the tutorial on creating sound in the game that came with the coding software they used.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-12-10 18:01:38 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
It's because streaming is a growing trend at the moment and because Twitch has gone to great lengths to make integration of their system easy as possible for developers.

To quote Twitch on this issue:

Quote:
The Twitch SDK takes care of authentication, video and audio encoding, audio capture, and streaming to Twitch servers. The game needs to provide a simple UI for basic settings and user login; beyond that it just supplies its frame buer to the SDK which takes care of the rest.


Quote:

Most partners are able to complete it(the integration) in less than a week.


And 2 things happen here,

1. More people see EvE online via player streams
2. Other people might think about using Twitch to broadcast their game experience even if it isn't EvE online.

Either way its a win-win for Twitch and CCP.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-12-10 18:37:53 UTC
@OP:

Why do you so persistently feel compelled to share your opinion on subjects you know absolutely nothing about?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#9 - 2013-12-10 19:23:05 UTC
If you look at the recent events, one could think they hired some guy that was subsidized by blink and twitch when he was a player.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#10 - 2013-12-10 19:55:01 UTC
One small difference:

Every windows PC out there (which can play Eve) comes with the ability to play mp3s. I'd be really surprised if OS X doesn't have an mp3 player built in.

How many OS have streaming software built in?

Aside from that, the audio system got a revamp at the time the jukebox got removed. The music is still there. It's just no longer under your control, instead being used for atmospherics.



Also, CCP uses the fairly well known of 10% time (percentages vary) when people get to work on their own projects (as long as they're related to their job in some fashion.)

This is how Valkyrie got its start. It wouldn't surprise me if twitch streaming got a similar intro.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#11 - 2013-12-10 20:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
MP3 players doesn't produce multiple sources of essentially free advertising. Just ignore the fact that it was used by alot of people......myself included!

Twitch TV does create multiple sources of free advertising, and is a feature that isn't used by even 1% of the playerbase to stream EVE. Those who actually do, use an out of game program that has alot more features and settings...

Even though..
Quote:
Maintaining an mp3 player inside EVE, while there are much better media players out there doesn‘t make much sense to us.


Yes, it doesn't make sense to maintain an MP3 player in EVE because better programs are available. Yet, CCP developed a Twitch TV plugin, when there's much better programs available...

Kinda sounds hypocritical to me...

(A constant stream of decisions like this, pulling resources away from features the whole playerbase wants. Into stuff no one really wanted in the first place. Is the reason why I went from 8 accounts down to 1 in the past year.)

...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#12 - 2013-12-10 20:57:45 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
From the devblog, streaming simply required implementing the Twitch SDK into EVE. This is much much less programmer work than designing and integrating a full separate application into the client. CCP didn't have to build a full streaming client from the ground up, they just used the code provided by Twitch.


...whereas MP3 decoders are an arcane science, of which only a few instances exist in the world, and require no less than 25 master developers to implement even in the simplest piece of software.

But, alas! I am always expecting CCP to outperform themselves. I am certain that a MP3 player is within their reach, if they devote more than 2 developers to sound & music (as, in case you don't know what you're talking about, you may be interested to know that Team Klang is composed of TWO developers).

Maybe with a third or even a fourth developer assigned to sound & music, we could get that beautiful & useful MP3 player back....

...preferably before someone falls in love with the idea of a ingame screensaver. Roll

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-12-10 21:05:06 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:


Yes, it doesn't make sense to maintain an MP3 player in EVE because better programs are available. Yet, CCP developed a Twitch TV plugin, when there's much better programs available...



What part of "SDK" did you not understand?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
gobbybobby
Negative-Impact
#14 - 2013-12-10 22:26:08 UTC
clearly for music you need only listen to the mad ani stream

or just run the even client windowed, and have spotify/ personal music collection/ soundcloud of the eve music running.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#15 - 2013-12-10 22:41:10 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:


Yes, it doesn't make sense to maintain an MP3 player in EVE because better programs are available. Yet, CCP developed a Twitch TV plugin, when there's much better programs available...



What part of "SDK" did you not understand?


Still takes time and resources to implement it into EVE...

UI developers, Programmers, Networking, Security...etc etc, what part of that don't you understand?

...
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#16 - 2013-12-10 23:29:14 UTC
I read the title as "Can't play black music" and was going to say something snarky.

I now realize it's prolly time for my evening nap.

Mr Epeen Cool