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Why do you bother?

Author
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#21 - 2013-12-09 18:20:26 UTC
Baseliners hate you?

Clearly you need to do more hair product commercials.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-12-09 22:01:08 UTC
Interesting responses. Is there anything that a baseliner or group of baseliners could do to make you change your opinions?

Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#23 - 2013-12-10 01:16:50 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Interesting responses. Is there anything that a baseliner or group of baseliners could do to make you change your opinions?



Trust toward any particular group can be shaken when that group, as a whole exhibits the following: Gossip, Passive aggressive behavior, false blame, broken promises, etc. When these are directed against you when you have been loyal it can generate great distrust in that group and sometimes in humanity as a whole. So, yes and no. I could come to a place of great cynicism about humanity as a whole if pushed or hurt in the right combination. But, even then, I believe that I would still see enough good not to abandon hope and not to abandon the pursuit of doing good. Whether this optimism is naïve I am perhaps not fit to judge for I am sure that I also have failed others who have been loyal to me. Forbear and forgive, I guess.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Esna Pitoojee
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-12-10 01:35:34 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Interesting responses. Is there anything that a baseliner or group of baseliners could do to make you change your opinions?



Towards baseliners entirely? That's a very, very large group. I think the answer would ultimately be 'no'. Here's why.

To make me feel that baseliners as a single group are no longer worth protection, I would have to somehow prove that there is no capacity for growth, development, or other positive actions from any one of them - because the moment one shows promise, the question become "are they worthless by nature, or by product of their experiences that have shaped them?" I would then have to prove that the former is absolutely the case... which I cannot do.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#25 - 2013-12-10 13:11:48 UTC
I think the most common fallacy here is that baseliners are harmless, weak and in every aspect inferiour to the capsuleer.

Note that the former is plural and the latter singular; but even when it's not a matter of dominance but cooperation and coexistence it's simple to notice we live in a decent symbiosis with baseliners on an everyday level.

What are you going to do, substitute them for drones? Or turn them into drones, Sansha style?
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Anatole Madullier
Alexylva Paradox
#26 - 2013-12-10 13:28:20 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Interesting responses. Is there anything that a baseliner or group of baseliners could do to make you change your opinions?



I kindly invite you to watch the IGS for when I next organize "The Massive". Some of those here can attest that you will be surrounded by baseliners, capsuleers, and dusters alike in one big loving caring group.

Just because I have a bunch of sockets in my spine doesn't change the fact that I care. Sure, some people change, some make other decisions. Those are their decisions.

Never forget where you come from.

Cuci Cairi
#27 - 2013-12-10 15:29:44 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Interesting responses. Is there anything that a baseliner or group of baseliners could do to make you change your opinions?



If someone is othering baseliners to the extent that we see in this thread, it is unlikely anything will change their minds. One would have to actually interact with them in order for it to change, but if one considers them universally unnoticeable, that interaction will not happen.
Anslo
Scope Works
#28 - 2013-12-10 16:24:01 UTC
Loyalty to a government is inherently flawed to me.

Loyalty to those you care about is the only thing worth a damn. Remember that. I forgot it and paid for it. Never, ever forget that.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Cuci Cairi
#29 - 2013-12-10 16:37:41 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Loyalty to a government is inherently flawed to me.

Loyalty to those you care about is the only thing worth a damn. Remember that. I forgot it and paid for it. Never, ever forget that.


Part of the discussion at hand is whether capsuleers care about baseliners, which is entirely possible within your statement.
Anslo
Scope Works
#30 - 2013-12-10 16:42:13 UTC
My statement includes both.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Roland Cassidy
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-12-10 17:30:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Roland Cassidy
There is an ancient saying predating Wayist teachings. I'm not a professional student of the old forms, so you'll have to forgive me for paraphrasing but I believe it says something to the effect of:

"An evil act travels a thousand miles"

This was something one of the steward monks of Landfall Temple told me as a child. At the time I had been content to consider the proverb a commentary of how swiftly bad news travels or conversely how quickly one can acquire a poor reputation. But now after my years have passed and I have had time to contemplate the saying I wonder if perhaps it also has some significance on the wear of evil on our kame... our soul.

How far does evil perpetrated by ourselves and against us by others move us? Is there not a distance between who we are and who we wish to be? Is that not the same thought when applied to the whole of humanity? As a capsuleer I've witnessed and taken part of atrocities, many of which I'm not proud of, and a few I admit sadly I might have been able to stop but didn't. In turn, my response to these acts was not so unimaginable. I shut down and quieted myself, I avoid the crush of life brought by others and seek out solitude as armor or penance or at least a means of coping.

I am told that to stay sane, I should release notions of remorse, that because I am immortal I must think beyond the notion what appears to be coined 'baseliner thought'. It is more maddening to me to lose that last sliver of the boy who swept the temple paths. The universe has taken much from me. Far more than I believe I ever got back.

There is more than a strict and narrow lane of morality beyond the stars, I for one still try to believe that it's not all bad.

"Watashi no Tao wa magarikunetta michidesu. Watashi wa toraedokoro no nai, heiwa o motome, samayoimasu."

(Trans) "My Tao is a winding path. I wander, seeking an elusive peace. "

浪人

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-12-11 12:58:57 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
Empyreans.

I come to you as a very different person than the one you may have met just about a year ago. I was naive, wondering at the vastness of a cluster that was suddenly mine to explore. Well, turns out things are much simpler than I'd imagined, people, baseline human beings cannot be trusted, they will hate you, they will fear you and if possible they will kill you, all because of the gift random chance gave you, Empyreans. We all know this to be true on some level. So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?

Just a short rant I guess, but I'm interested to


1. We are same people, with just wires sticking out. Maybe we are copies, "fakes", but still we have human DNA, brain and body, we have human ambitions, dreams and desires. We are only fakes, compared to our previous incarnations.

2. In fact, I do trust baseliners more, than capsuleers. Well, usually I simple trust peoples, but with so much scam around, it is impossible to make them pay, and they will hide indefinitely. For only five years as a capsuleer I have met times more honorless scum among empyreans, especially jaijii ones, than I ever had met before I died.

3. I pledge loyalty to our nation, because it is my duty. Everything I have, including my life, I have only because of the State. And for this, I must pay appropriately.

4. What difference I can make? I kill enemies of the State. And my capsuleer status allows me to kill more. Even if I kill two before I die, it will be profit. But difference is a wrong word, when you ask a single person. I don't change anything, I am just doing my job. I am one of the many.

One by one we simply kill enemies, but together we capture planets, win battles and wars. Just like builders, placing small bricks one on one, together build whole cities. There is no sense in just a brick in the wall, and there is no sense in just a soldier.

Only together we make difference.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Naomi Tichim
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#33 - 2013-12-11 15:05:37 UTC
The Empire is my homeland, and although it has wronged me, it has also sought to make amends. As capsuleers, we have the power to do immense good in this world. That's what I try to do.
Shiki Mikkyou
#34 - 2013-12-11 17:13:44 UTC
Astera Zandraki wrote:
... I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?

Three centuries ago, the State glimpsed our potential and elevated us to the stars. When the merger of mind and machine became plausible through the capsule, we elevated ourselves still further. Yet while we brave these awesome heights, the potential of our people has remained everpresent. Much of what has been built was made with their ingenuity and dedication.

While I do limit my personal contact to family, colleagues, and crews, it would be irresponsible to discount our citizens' continued contributions to society. Likewise, we inform the reputation of the State by embodying the ideals which first made us worthy, and so can inspire citizens to achieve more.

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain。

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2013-12-11 18:09:53 UTC
We should talk, Astera, I want to know what happened to you since we last talked that made you question yourself like this.

Now, regarding your question...

I serve the State because the State made me what I am and gave me everything that I have. In return I'm now perfectly placed to perform a unique service for her. I can defend her Citizens, her Resources and her Interests directly. Not only can I take direct action, but by my example I can hopefully prod others into action - and not just Empyreans. I can motivate ground crew, soldiers, factory workers - everyone is capable of putting their shoulder to the wheel and making life better for everyone else.

The State is a collectivist society. We all put a little extra effort into our joint projects and it results in a slightly better standard of living for EVERYONE.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#36 - 2013-12-11 19:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Astera Zandraki wrote:
So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?


Why abandon loyalty? Why is making a difference important?

I am loyal to the Empire because it is my home. I do not expect and do not care to make a difference.
Anslo
Scope Works
#37 - 2013-12-11 19:15:02 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:
So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?


Why abandon loyalty? Why is making a difference important?

I am loyal to the Empire because it is my home. I do not expect and do not care to make a difference.

Reach for the stars there Kernher, never lose that ambition...

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2013-12-11 19:38:50 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
Astera Zandraki wrote:
So, I'm asking you all, those who still pledge loyalty to the four nations, why do you bother? What difference can you make?


Why abandon loyalty? Why is making a difference important?

I am loyal to the Empire because it is my home. I do not expect and do not care to make a difference.

Reach for the stars there Kernher, never lose that ambition...


Now, now. Be nice. They also serve who stand and wait.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anslo
Scope Works
#39 - 2013-12-11 19:48:03 UTC
Not in my experience....then again I have **** luck so maybe the stars just hate me.

UP YOURS STELLAR SOLAR OBJECTS!! YOU'RE NOTHING BUT HOT GAS!!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Astera Zandraki
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-12-11 20:55:19 UTC
Thankyou all for your involvment in my little experiment, I was curious to see how many empyeans think they are 'better' than other human subtypes.

Birdsong
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