These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Newbie PVE: MJD Dominix, Armageddon and Raven fits here.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-08 14:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
All have been playtested to steamroll L4's with low but focused skillpoints on under 6 months old characters. All are easy to fit CPU wise and focus in training damage skills. Training the damage skills is the core of these fits: it both enables the fits to steamroll with range and damage, and makes you isk.

All of the fits tank the L4's easily by sniping from outside NPC range. Guristas missions can be iffy, but in practise get steamrolled. Against guristas fit 2x kinetic hardeners. Carry a mobile depot for the ability to adapt fittings in space.

All of the fits carry a tractor beam to snag mission objectives with MJD triangulation. Move around by MJD triangulation, practise the routine to get the most out of MJD cooldown by jumping back to next gate with a buffer of rats left to kill.

Knock yourself out!

Arrow
[Dominix, Newbie PVE MJD]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Drone Scope Chip I

Garde II x5 - 820dps to 100km optimal range
Bouncer II x5 - 717dps to 130km drone range
Curator II x5 - 666dps to 130km drone range

Arrow
[Armageddon, Newbie PVE MJD]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Large Armor Repairer II
Internal Force Field Array I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Tractor Beam I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

Curator II x5 - 666dps to 110km
Bouncer II x5 - 717dps to 130km
Warden II x5 - 615dps to 150km
(garde II 820dps to 60km)

Arrow
[Raven, Newbie PVE MJD]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II

Large Micro Jump Drive
EM Ward Field II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Booster II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5

Fury missile 888dps to 150km lock range, triple rigor damage application.
Precision or t1 missile 635dps to smaller targets than BS.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2013-12-08 16:53:46 UTC
+1
This is basically the best way for new players to get into L4 missions nowadays.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-12-08 18:11:39 UTC
That Raven you can also swap the SeBo for a cap booster and not have to range tank everything. So less waiting around for the MJD to cooldown.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-12-08 18:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Onictus wrote:
That Raven you can also swap the SeBo for a cap booster and not have to range tank everything. So less waiting around for the MJD to cooldown.

Absolutely correct for a ready character.

Not on a very young character running L4 / anomalies, though. The MJD is only there to forego tank requirement, as MJD reduces your DPS to missile travel time on spawn triggers.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-12-09 11:44:56 UTC
The only thing I'd quibble about is the fifth DDA in the Dominix and Armageddon fits. Drone damage is variable in the same way turret damage is (grazing shots, wrecking shots, etc.), and once you're past four DDA's, I'm not sure you get enough of a DPS boost to be noticeable over the natural fluctuations in drone DPS. For a newbie, I'd probably recommend an extra tank module in place of the fifth DDA.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Blake Phosphor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-12-09 12:30:48 UTC
Especially in L4s, many battleships will hunt you down to some degree. On many missions this will suit you, but on my domi (even with t2 sentries) I often take damage from battleships at 70k+. If the domi posted fails to maintain a good 100km+, it will either have to warp or die very quickly. Also, whats up with the rigs? Just use more drone link augmenters, I dont know of any noobie who has perfect targeting skills, so 4/5 drone links is often enough to serve any purpose. And for the love of god, t2 damage control. you expect t2 links but not t2 damage control?
Neor Deninard
Blackwater Coalition Forces
Harkonnen Federation
#7 - 2013-12-09 13:04:45 UTC
That Domi will die soooooo fast vs. guristas

And slowboating 40km to a gate or mission container isn't fun either
Dextrome Thorphan
#8 - 2013-12-09 13:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dextrome Thorphan
Neor Deninard wrote:
That Domi will die soooooo fast vs. guristas

And slowboating 40km to a gate or mission container isn't fun either


Uhm it's got a MJD just like the Raven and the Arma... so why you dissing the Domi? P

Just gotta learn how to effectively use your MJD Blink D/W I suck at it too lol Lol
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-12-09 13:29:26 UTC
Neor Deninard wrote:
That Domi will die soooooo fast vs. guristas

And slowboating 40km to a gate or mission container isn't fun either


Both points are addressed in op. These fits are thoroughly proven in L4s.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-09 13:35:02 UTC
Blake Phosphor wrote:
Especially in L4s, many battleships will hunt you down to some degree. On many missions this will suit you, but on my domi (even with t2 sentries) I often take damage from battleships at 70k+. If the domi posted fails to maintain a good 100km+, it will either have to warp or die very quickly. Also, whats up with the rigs? Just use more drone link augmenters, I dont know of any noobie who has perfect targeting skills, so 4/5 drone links is often enough to serve any purpose. And for the love of god, t2 damage control. you expect t2 links but not t2 damage control?


Valid points in theory. In practise the fits are optimized:

• range tank steamrolls L4's in practise, thoroughly playtested
• scope rigs are not stacking penalized with omnidirs resulting 100km optimal gardes
• t2 damage control is CPU hungry, can skip electronics v and drones rigging iv through meta
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-12-09 13:38:37 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
The only thing I'd quibble about is the fifth DDA in the Dominix and Armageddon fits. Drone damage is variable in the same way turret damage is (grazing shots, wrecking shots, etc.), and once you're past four DDA's, I'm not sure you get enough of a DPS boost to be noticeable over the natural fluctuations in drone DPS. For a newbie, I'd probably recommend an extra tank module in place of the fifth DDA.


The fifth DDA gives a 15-20 dps boost. A good alternative is to carry a hardener in the slot.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-12-09 14:05:28 UTC
These look like very good fits but I have a few questions.

How would you fit these for experienced players? Other than the co-processor for the Raven and the T1 damage control *gouges eyes out* the fits look like they would be good for more experienced players as well... Or am I wrong?

How much damage do you defect being at 100km since they use missiles? I've done Sansha missions and being 100km off is nice since their turrets have a hard time hitting you but I haven't tried this with Guristas and their missiles.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#13 - 2013-12-09 14:18:28 UTC
Would the Domi/Geddon have enough targeting range if you used a signal amplifier instead of the sensor booster? Fifth damage mod is a bit too penalized for me to see it as useful tbh...
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-12-09 14:22:00 UTC
IIshira wrote:
These look like very good fits but I have a few questions.

How would you fit these for experienced players? Other than the co-processor for the Raven and the T1 damage control *gouges eyes out* the fits look like they would be good for more experienced players as well... Or am I wrong?

How much damage do you defect being at 100km since they use missiles? I've done Sansha missions and being 100km off is nice since their turrets have a hard time hitting you but I haven't tried this with Guristas and their missiles.


The co-proc isn't going anywhere on a x4 BCS raven, not if you want a tank....that applies to players with fitting skills as well as those that dont. Likewise the t1 DC is there for CPU purposes, domi doesn't really have that much and 5 damage mods + 3 omnis + dla eat a lot AND those drone scopes cost you CPU like all drone rigs....I doubt that a T2 DCU would fit.

I wouldn't fly the domi with that fit, three DDAs allows a much better tank, and even then you are going to have fun with a lot of the angle missions, the requirement to range tank would make guristas even worse, toss that sitecase completely in favor of a couple specific cheepo faction hardeners and call that a day. Likelwise that thing is only going to be able to run the repper for a minute maybe before capping out. There is nothing to support the capacitor on it.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-12-09 14:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Good questions above.

The sebo hits a sweet spot of 140 targeting / 130 drone control ish. Signal amp range limitation costs a lot of dps in practise. However, the ones you need to co-max are drone optimal, control and lock range. A good eft excersise, keeping in mind the cpu ease and low sp!

The fifth DDA is a rather decent boost, not as penalized as on most turret ships: 15-20dps

The drone fits work for experienced players as they are, because they are quite maxed for dps. On raven and gedson you should look for non mjd fits though if you want to min max. Those are a different topic but: raven "standard", armageddon 50km cruise-sentry or laser-sentry.
Trioxis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-12-09 16:01:56 UTC
I'd probably run something like this:

[Armageddon, DRONE ON]
Large Armor Repairer II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Cruise Missile
Salvager I
Salvager I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Bouncer II x5 - 657dps @ 75km optimal
Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x5 - 610dps @ ~66km optimal
Hammerhead II x5

It trades drone optimal and some dps for increased tank so you don't have to worry about guristas melting your armor. Cruise missiles will add a bit of dps while also allowing you to pull ships from range, if necessary. You could drop a DDA for another resist if you don't feel comfortable with the tank.

Dropping the Omnidirectional Tracking Link for a 100mn AB would allow you to get to gates a bit faster at the expense of drone optimal and tracking. Bouncer optimal would be 57600m and Curator optimal would be 50400. It's debatable whether you would need the increased optimal range or not as a stronger tank would allow you to just take all fire head-on, thus having all ships within optimal anyway. It might also be worth taking rat specific sentries (Curator vs Sansha and Blood Raiders, Garde vs Serpentis, etc) to get the most bang for your buck.
Blake Phosphor
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-12-09 17:14:31 UTC
Miasmos wrote:
Blake Phosphor wrote:
Especially in L4s, many battleships will hunt you down to some degree. On many missions this will suit you, but on my domi (even with t2 sentries) I often take damage from battleships at 70k+. If the domi posted fails to maintain a good 100km+, it will either have to warp or die very quickly. Also, whats up with the rigs? Just use more drone link augmenters, I dont know of any noobie who has perfect targeting skills, so 4/5 drone links is often enough to serve any purpose. And for the love of god, t2 damage control. you expect t2 links but not t2 damage control?


Valid points in theory. In practise the fits are optimized:

• range tank steamrolls L4's in practise, thoroughly playtested
• scope rigs are not stacking penalized with omnidirs resulting 100km optimal gardes
• t2 damage control is CPU hungry, can skip electronics v and drones rigging iv through meta


Id like to see this. I have several 8.0s with corporations and have done hundreds of l4s and I can say that in quite a few missions if ANYTHING goes wrong you will simply die. Before one could use this fit, they would have to do much research and be very careful, definetly not noobie friendly
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-12-09 17:48:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Blake Phosphor wrote:
Miasmos wrote:
Blake Phosphor wrote:
Especially in L4s, many battleships will hunt you down to some degree. On many missions this will suit you, but on my domi (even with t2 sentries) I often take damage from battleships at 70k+. If the domi posted fails to maintain a good 100km+, it will either have to warp or die very quickly. Also, whats up with the rigs? Just use more drone link augmenters, I dont know of any noobie who has perfect targeting skills, so 4/5 drone links is often enough to serve any purpose. And for the love of god, t2 damage control. you expect t2 links but not t2 damage control?


Valid points in theory. In practise the fits are optimized:

• range tank steamrolls L4's in practise, thoroughly playtested
• scope rigs are not stacking penalized with omnidirs resulting 100km optimal gardes
• t2 damage control is CPU hungry, can skip electronics v and drones rigging iv through meta


Id like to see this. I have several 8.0s with corporations and have done hundreds of l4s and I can say that in quite a few missions if ANYTHING goes wrong you will simply die. Before one could use this fit, they would have to do much research and be very careful, definetly not noobie friendly


*Simply die waving hands, or MJD and warp away - if anything ever manages to go *that* wrong. Has not happened to me though, and I just

1) MJD when entering room.
2) Shoot frigates first on approach, then focus down the rest, sorting by range to kill close ones first.
3) MJD to outgate.
4) Shoot the rest of the rats around which I spare for the MJD cooldown to get most out of that period.
5) Enter next room with MJD charged.

EDIT: to be fair, when testing the fit I had to warp out in 2 of ~50 missions with the 5 DDA setup, both times against Guristas. Which is why I adapted and fit 2x kin hardener vs. Guristas, and included that in the OP.

Reality is quite different to the situation quoted above. The fit uses a combination of range and damage to tank, and expects good (sentry V, drone interfacing V, gallente BS IV) drone skills to function fully. This is not a big training, rather for a newbie the fastest way to get about soloing L4's without investing ton of isk on pimp modules. This is by far the fastest way to do them quickly as a newbie, because sentry damage-range ratio is unproportionally good given the low SP it takes to max out.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-12-09 18:58:29 UTC
Miasmos wrote:
• scope rigs are not stacking penalized with omnidirs resulting 100km optimal gardes


Hmm, hadn't realized that, are they stacking penalized with each other? I remember there was a time when the omnis weren't stacking penalized.
That might make it worth switching from my current domi, to my Geddon (as I have Amarr BS V, but only gal BS IV), and then re-rig the geddon, although I'd have to check the CPU


Still, in general, the fits look way too squishy and stacking penalized.
MJDing back to a gate, and sitting around for 3 minutes for it to cooldown again is not what I'd call blitzing.

2/3 of them also assumes rather extensive drone skills, I know you said focused... but.... that is quite a bit of specialization.

Given the price of a domi now, I might be tempted to tell them they can use some faction stuff in place of skills (ie Fed navy omni links, and only do sharpshooting IV)

Black eagle DLAs are nice too, but a bit expensive... but if you're blitzing lvl 4s, you can do the gallente epic arc soon enough I guess.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-12-09 19:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Miasmos wrote:
• scope rigs are not stacking penalized with omnidirs resulting 100km optimal gardes


Hmm, hadn't realized that, are they stacking penalized with each other? I remember there was a time when the omnis weren't stacking penalized.
That might make it worth switching from my current domi, to my Geddon (as I have Amarr BS V, but only gal BS IV), and then re-rig the geddon, although I'd have to check the CPU


Still, in general, the fits look way too squishy and stacking penalized.
MJDing back to a gate, and sitting around for 3 minutes for it to cooldown again is not what I'd call blitzing.

2/3 of them also assumes rather extensive drone skills, I know you said focused... but.... that is quite a bit of specialization.

Given the price of a domi now, I might be tempted to tell them they can use some faction stuff in place of skills (ie Fed navy omni links, and only do sharpshooting IV)

Black eagle DLAs are nice too, but a bit expensive... but if you're blitzing lvl 4s, you can do the gallente epic arc soon enough I guess.


About the penalization and squishiness, looks can be deceiving. It's the focus that makes them work, including on the skillpoint department. The focus allows skipping on the tank department as you kill stuff before it reaches range to shoot you. Making compromises rapidly moves you from "don't need tank" to "have to fit full tank", especially on a low SP character. EDIT: I would hazard a guess that dropping to 3 DDA really penalizes the functionality of the drone fits. Four are very sane, but also I think the minimum requirement for range tank to be justified.

FN omnidirectionals are an excellent call on the dominix, reaching 110km gardes. BE DLA's could also be good, as CPU is very hard on the DLA's especially.

Pimping it too much crosses the line of "gank-worthy" though! This is the primary reason of using a damage control too, as the EHP would be in the target range of a pair of tornados without it on a low SP character.
123Next page