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Which Maurader?
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Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#21 - 2013-11-22 13:18:25 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
bla bla





damn carebears can't even think of the right ship to use, or at least why the reasons they stated are irrelevant.

Welcome to Rubicon!
First, all Marauders can tank on shield with ease now. Some have bonuses, some don't. Still getting a 800 DPS tank on a Kronos with Tech2 / Meta 4 items. Leaves 7 lowslots for damage and application.
Second, they are MJD bonus'd. Why would you *ever* have something up close to you? This makes Turret Rauders better than Missile Rauders, because if range is big enough, they will blap frigs. with one gun.
Third, there is this thing, this... i don't know, tent! Like, you deploy it, and in your vast cargohold, you have all the modules you thought you might need at some point, maybe, like, once in a lifetime, because, well, it fits into the cargo, and you could use it for refitting. For example for a rack of closerange guns. And a rack of Longrange guns. And a rack of tank. And a rack of fullgank. And Salvagers, 8 of them. And tractor beams, ... also 8 of them. F*ck the Tractor-Thing, you're a rauder, your tractors work better, faster, and you salvage all the stuff right after you make the pile. You are a Noctis. You are a Dreadnaught. You are a refitting carrier, you are whatever you feel like.

This leads to 4th:

What damage would you want to shoot? well, for missions, it's variable what damage you need to deal. Lasers and Railgungs fall short because of this.

Rise, Vargur, son of Naglfar, King of PvE!



you SIR, knows what's up. have a +1.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-11-27 15:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeanne-Luise Argenau
ok my opinion.

Paladin, great if u mission mainly in amarr space (highest probability of getting em/therm weak enemies).
Kronos, if u know how to deploy it great ship especially if u use it with blasters.

Both are armor and when u properly fit them they hold 3 damage mods maybe 4 and have 2 mids free for tc or what u want.

Vargur, great alpha with 1400 but painfull RoF, good versatility in missions.
Golem, great allrounder especially with 2 tp's fitted, downside you have to count your volleys because it might take 2 or 3 cycles till it hits the target.

I tested them all on sisi, but i have to say they all where darn good, my preferred ship was the vargur but only by a thin margin

PS.: i prefer long range weapons in pve mostly, also i know sr has their use too
Nobbler Hakuli
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-11-30 21:59:33 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
bla bla





damn carebears can't even think of the right ship to use, or at least why the reasons they stated are irrelevant.

Welcome to Rubicon!
First, all Marauders can tank on shield with ease now. Some have bonuses, some don't. Still getting a 800 DPS tank on a Kronos with Tech2 / Meta 4 items. Leaves 7 lowslots for damage and application.
Second, they are MJD bonus'd. Why would you *ever* have something up close to you? This makes Turret Rauders better than Missile Rauders, because if range is big enough, they will blap frigs. with one gun.
Third, there is this thing, this... i don't know, tent! Like, you deploy it, and in your vast cargohold, you have all the modules you thought you might need at some point, maybe, like, once in a lifetime, because, well, it fits into the cargo, and you could use it for refitting. For example for a rack of closerange guns. And a rack of Longrange guns. And a rack of tank. And a rack of fullgank. And Salvagers, 8 of them. And tractor beams, ... also 8 of them. F*ck the Tractor-Thing, you're a rauder, your tractors work better, faster, and you salvage all the stuff right after you make the pile. You are a Noctis. You are a Dreadnaught. You are a refitting carrier, you are whatever you feel like.

This leads to 4th:

What damage would you want to shoot? well, for missions, it's variable what damage you need to deal. Lasers and Railgungs fall short because of this.

Rise, Vargur, son of Naglfar, King of PvE!





Spiffing post mate I'll go plus 1 on that to lose my voting cherry
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#24 - 2013-12-01 00:08:31 UTC
Vargur if you plan to move into incursions later.

Rattlesnake if you really want to see god mode in L4's.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-12-01 00:58:11 UTC
The Nerf Bat wrote:
Just starting out, but I wanted to know what would be the best Maurader to train up in order to do lvl 4 missions?


There is no "best" ship in Eve. Paladin works awesome in Amarr space but is kind of blah elsewhere. Golem might be the best "jack of all trades" since you can chose your damage type.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#26 - 2013-12-02 10:50:13 UTC
interesting thing. the paladin gets 200-550dps more than the vargur at all ranges below 100km.

no idea if thats enough to overcome guirista resists but it will be better at killing sansha, blood, serp, merc and dronesthan anything else. vargur will only beat it at angels... probably.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Akonnen
Birds of Prey Inc.
#27 - 2013-12-02 11:13:13 UTC
There is no best marauder, just use the one meant for your race or wherever you plan on missioning.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#28 - 2013-12-02 18:23:00 UTC
All the marauders are great. This is true. MJD work beautifully on these ships. Bastion is nice. The topping on the cake is a Mobile Depot.

Need tank? Refit for Max tankage. I can fit my Vargur to have a 2500dps omni tank that is cap stable.
Targets at long range? Refit to 1400s, or just MJD right into their face, activate Bastion and unload.
Pointed by a rat? MJD out or refit with Warp Core Stabs.

Seriously, the age of one fit for a ship is gone now. Keep a Mobile Depot and mods with you, deploy it, and refit as needed.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#29 - 2013-12-08 04:13:43 UTC
Serious mission runners long held the CNR as the top ship due to the power of cruise missiles. Before it was cheap and ISK was easy to make, the Raven was king. I would recommend the Golem, as the cruise changes buffed it significantly. It now has the CNR cruise power with, well, everything else (ok, except sentry potential). The bulk of missions are BS or BC. Use TP for the cruisers. Use light drones for the frigates (if you even need to kill them).

Honestly, when they add drone buttons and improve drone hot keys, it will be a buff to Caldari mission runners.

As for me, I use a variety of ships: missiles, guns, & drones. Try flying different ones for different missions. It keeps it interesting and you end up with favorite ships for different missions. None of the marauders are ideal for ECM missions IMHO.
Matarella
Incognito Mode
Brotherhood of Spacers
#30 - 2013-12-08 08:04:45 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
interesting thing. the paladin gets 200-550dps more than the vargur at all ranges below 100km.

no idea if thats enough to overcome guirista resists but it will be better at killing sansha, blood, serp, merc and dronesthan anything else. vargur will only beat it at angels... probably.


with what? cruise missiles? since you are referring to 100KM range.

I havnt run a mission in ages. but the rats used to shoot defender missiles. On a marauder thats cutting your DPS by 25%.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2013-12-08 13:02:42 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
The Nerf Bat wrote:
Just starting out, but I wanted to know what would be the best Maurader to train up in order to do lvl 4 missions?


If you are just starting, any ship that is clearly better NOW will not be clearly better by the time you can fly it properly. Choose the one you think looks the coolest and work towards that one.

love it

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#32 - 2013-12-09 23:32:04 UTC
Lord Lojak wrote:
i picked the golem over the vargur (narrowly mind you) due to cruise missiles can hit something 2 km just as easily as 128 km out. and only thing it cant handle easily is frigs and thats what light drones work really well at.

You do realize that a single Defender removes 1/4 of your DPS when using cruise missiles, but not with torps.

Plus the Golem is bonused for a MJD for getting into torp range, and has room for 3 painters.
stoicfaux
#33 - 2013-12-10 04:32:14 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
i picked the golem over the vargur (narrowly mind you) due to cruise missiles can hit something 2 km just as easily as 128 km out. and only thing it cant handle easily is frigs and thats what light drones work really well at.

You do realize that a single Defender removes 1/4 of your DPS when using cruise missiles, but not with torps.

Plus the Golem is bonused for a MJD for getting into torp range, and has room for 3 painters.

Last I tested, NPC defenders always miss from 70+km away (and maybe closer) and the defenders are also ineffective when launched within ~1.5 seconds of flight time of the target. And with the speed of cruise missiles, you don't normally need to worry about DPS loss to volley counting.

The Torp vs Cruise Golem debate is only going to be settled with actual mission times.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-12-10 05:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
The Nerf Bat wrote:
Just starting out, but I wanted to know what would be the best Maurader to train up in order to do lvl 4 missions?


Best PVE ship in game for some purposes is Paladin (pulse fit with tach swap in mobile depot). Lasers require no reloading, which at high dps becomes a really big thing. For missions less so as for anomalies.

Turret DPS before implants:
1245dps conflagration to 27+19 or 33+21km(bastion), 2 tracking scripts
890dps scorch to 70/100km optimal
Reload time included (win).

Add implants to reach ~1440dps maxed out conflagration. Add drone dps if care.

May post fit when online, the gank is burst aerator II+4IN HS +1 t2 HS +4tracking computer.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-12-10 07:43:40 UTC
I've tested all of the Marauders, and being at Marauders 5 on both characters certainly helps make sure that the testing was a bit easier. Overall, I found:

1.) The Kronos and Paladin have higher DPS than the Vargur or Golem, but they are locked itno damage types where-as the Golem and Vargur are not.

2.) Shield tanks in missions are superior because of the front-end burst it provides, coupled with the lower cap usage and cycle time

3.) Torpedoes are still terrible, as much as we may wish them not to be.

With that being said, I've come to view the Vargur as the best of them all. The resists across the board are excellent--afetr all, Minmatar have terrific EM and Thermal resists in shield. You can generally go with a single Invuln and be at what you need to properly tank. A single XLSB and a shield boost amplifier makes your active tank a force to be reckoned with. My fit:

[Vargur, Mission]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Domination Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
Imperial Navy Cap Recharger

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Bastion Module I
Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

Hammerhead II x5


With all level 5 skills, it has 1,086 DPS with RF ammo, out to 3.3+43 (not in Bastion) and 4.1+53 (in Bastion). I never remember how to calculate DPS tank in EFT, but I know when I look at mine I repair the standard amount with Marauders 5, plus HG Crystals 1-5 (in all, it repairs 2,450 HP/sec outside of Bastion and 4,500 in it). Your cap lasts about 90 seconds if you aren't running the MWD, but with resists above 70% you should only need to pulse the thing to tank. It has projection, application, and tank. Nothing not to love about it!

I can clear missions quickly, but I prefer to salvage, I admit. Iv'e been making roughly 110-million ISK/hour doing it this way, with a Mobile Tractor Unit pulling things towards me.

Now, why the MWD of the MJD? I find most missions, if I have to move long distances it isn't 100km. It is usually 10-50 km. The MWD provides excellent coverage for that!

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-12-10 08:07:29 UTC
The above fit would immensely benefit from 3 tracking computers (ditch cap rechargers and shield boost amp) and a fourth gyrostab (ditch TE). And a burst aerator II rig.

The point of marauders is the ability to fit damage mods and damage application mods, as bastion eases tanking. But this is only my approach; I prefer fast killing.

The damage control is required to make suicide ganking moreexpensive and tedious.
Rio Mighty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-12-10 15:04:45 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:

I can clear missions quickly, but I prefer to salvage, I admit. Iv'e been making roughly 110-million ISK/hour doing it this way, with a Mobile Tractor Unit pulling things towards me.


are you taking into account LP's? 110kk/hour with salvage time sounds really good to me......

thanks,
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-12-10 15:26:42 UTC
Rio Mighty wrote:
Anya Klibor wrote:

I can clear missions quickly, but I prefer to salvage, I admit. Iv'e been making roughly 110-million ISK/hour doing it this way, with a Mobile Tractor Unit pulling things towards me.


are you taking into account LP's? 110kk/hour with salvage time sounds really good to me......

thanks,

110m ISK/hour without LP is not possible on one account unless you decline all but a very few missions.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-12-10 16:10:20 UTC
Miasmos wrote:
The above fit would immensely benefit from 3 tracking computers (ditch cap rechargers and shield boost amp) and a fourth gyrostab (ditch TE). And a burst aerator II rig.

The point of marauders is the ability to fit damage mods and damage application mods, as bastion eases tanking. But this is only my approach; I prefer fast killing.

The damage control is required to make suicide ganking moreexpensive and tedious.


WHy? I am hitting hard enough against targets that get with-in 2km of me, even if they are orbiting. The only things I have problems with at that point are the frigates, but even the Golem will have that problem, and so I don't see it as a shortcoming on the part of the Vargur; in fact, I can usually one-shot them as they are coming in (as can the Kronos and Paladin, I know).

The point of the shield Marauders is the ability to load up the lows with damage mods and application. However, the mids are generally for tanking and some damage application. Considering where I mission normally, ganking isn't uncommon. With the way I do it, though, it is highly inconvenient, and I have an alt on standby to scoop the loot if it comes to it. In short, it never pays off for the gankers.

As for the ISK/hour, I routinely turn down the ones that pit me against the other empires. They come up quite rarely, however, so I should be good.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Sh0plifter
Underworld Property Accounting Partnership
#40 - 2013-12-10 16:10:24 UTC
Every marauder has its ups and downs.
Vargur/Golem cannot permatank with XLSB (even with x-Type DS) in Bastion; where the Paladin/Kronos can with a T2 LAR, give it a DS and you are just rolling at the fact you can permatank that high a DPS.

Vargur/Golem can switch damage type; Paly/Kronos cannot.

Shields auto regen, Armor does not.


Personally, I favor the Kronos. I can permatank, still have two Mag Stabs, still hold a ridiculous tank. I can reach 120k with 2 volleying cruisers and have a great ROF compared to the Vargur. Anything I dont kill I have my drones, or my MJD to get range again.

MJD Back and forth between the same spots leaves all wrecks in a 110km range of eachother. So you're mobile tractor unit can grab them all, or your noctis alt.

You are a Rubicon marauder. You don't move when killing **** except to MJD or go to your next accel gate. This whole theory of being a noctis/dreadnaught in one is garbage unless you are making sure you kill stuff within tractor range. Which then makes the MJD Bonus completely useless.
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