Ships & Modules

I don't think we can get rid of signature radius in damage equations. When you activate a MWD you would become immortal.
But there should be some way to either make a signature radius limit both negative and positive, in that way a giant sig increase can increase tracking. Either that or a secondary attribute needs to be added to MWD, and AB in a lesser extent since speed would be the deciding attribute alone.

It used to be like that, frig were able to outrun larger missiles, but if hit by a torpedo...it was ugly.
In the end no missile were able to hit a MWDing Interceptor, and people were complaing even more than today about missile being useless in PVP.

Now with frigates going from 2500 to 6000m/s with implant and links, good luck balancing missiles on speed only.


Even turret have a Signature Resolution.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage#Turret_Signature_Resolution

CNI;
Internal Force Field Array I
Ballistic Control System II (x3)

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile (x6)

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II (x2)

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As I said, 544DPS at 21.3 km is with CN Scourge and every other launcher overheated. After 85 sec you should stop overheating or you will lose your first launcher. Shield resists are; 57.5, 50.4, 62.8 and 69% (do you see any massive gaping wholes?), EHP 28,448, speed 1948 m/s with cap life of 2 m 14 s (78% stable with mwd off). Don't get me wrong, I would never fly one except maybe in some niche PVP situations and even then I can think of better ships for the role.

And that Rupture will have 2km range... Maybe 10 with falloff, which will through him at 150dps at 10km ?

I was talking about the CNI because it is, IMO, a Cruiser which solve the problem other missiles cruisers can have to kill smaller targets.

And FYI 26kehp tank is a lot for a fast T1 cruiser.

Cheery picking numbers to "unfortunately" pick the absolute worst case your ship can go on is plain stupid or dishonnest, but above all irrealistic. Not medium turret will ever hit an interceptor provided he just simply don't stop to move. Turrets will have a very hard time killing an attack frigate too. Missiles, when factoring the range they can hit to, have an insane damage application.

Now this damage application is balanced, and as you can't balance it with position like turret, signature and raw speed do the job.

Missiles are different from turrets. They have pros and cons, exactly like turrets. Deal with it. And if you are pro enough to not see any drawbacks to turrets, just use them instead of bothering with missiles, because missiles are useless if turrets are in a best case scenario.

PS : my numbers show 93dps to an untanked MWDing Executioner with CNI and one TP. Such a frigate will survive around 30s to this dps... You wouldn't kill it faster with another frigate, and you would certainly not hit it at 15km if he is orbiting you. Only drones bonused warriorII compete here, and I'm not sure their applyed dps will be that high. Of course I'm not talking about LM which would melt him.

PPS :
[Caracal Navy Issue, HAM]

Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Target Painter II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Javelin Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

I hope you know there's no way you can catch a guy flying MWD Executioner so tell me why would he engage you in the first place? Realistically speaking, you're the one unrealistic here.

Exactly ! Why would a fast frigate (those able to reduce missile damage) fight a missile ship as they are gonna die anyway ?!

As for the Rupture, either shield or armor tanked, it's slower than the Caracal, so what range will it dictate ?

There's a thing called mass. And with a Web, it's an armor rupture, either active tanked and its capacitor won't last long or buffer and is very slow.

Also, paper AC dps != from real dps. You'll apply MUCH more dps than he will. You will murder him.

And you can swap the TP for a web if close range is what scares you. With a web you can even use rage HAM...

As we can see here*:

https://zkillboard.com/ship/621/solo/page/1/

almost anything can kill a Caracal and what can Caracal kill? Frigates.

Cerberus is not much better for the cost lately, most times it will lose dealing with HAC and other turret cruisers.

https://zkillboard.com/ship/11993/solo/page/1/

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*I'm sorry if breaking rules, it's only to provide statistics

Oh, my bad, I forgot AC applyed perfect dps from 0 to 20km.

Ah, and the fight obsiously start in scram range at 0, or CNI might have a chance.

And of course web is forbiden on the CNI, or rage HAM could be used to apply perfect dps.

And MAAR don't have only 8 cycle before reload, that's a legend.

And the CNI can't overload obviously, that would increase its chances of success.

And of course the CNI should not use its MWD or he will be faster than the Rupture and that just can't be.

Basicaly, a missile ship must sit down immobile in optimal range of the turret ship for him to apply 100% of its dps, and use the least effective missile possible (like precision mjolnir on armor tanked Rupture.

Oh, I must be very bad at pvp to forgot all of these obvious things.




Or, seriously, you can realize that a Rupture have actually not any chance against a CNI because it outdps the Rupture at all ranges, and is faster, and have the same tank when buffered.

But such dishonnesty is actually boring. Turrets don't always engage in perfect condition. Most of the time, it's far less than ideal. So missiles have not ideal conditions too, and they are different from turrets, but if you don't like missiles, stop pretending they are bad in finely selected but unreal scenarios and train for turrets ; and stop asking to make missiles turrets with different graphics, that's just plain stupid.

The CNI is a beast, as are all navy cruisers now, missiles or not. And of course in some cases a Velator can kill them all.

I have been playing EVE for a long time now and every time a discussion about missile mechanics both good and bad occurs (and it occurs a lot) the thread becomes a compare and contrast of missiles/turrets. Interestingly the results are always the same: misunderstanding, hard feels, trash talk, misrepresentations, cries of anguish, ISD editing and hardened attitudes. All this because of a complaint about missile mechanics.

Neither turrets or missiles are perfect. Neither are balanced. Neither is the "perfect" weapon system and both need improvement. Hybrids were a joke, rails were awful, rockets were pathetic, T2 missile ammo was never used etc. but things are changed and with changes come more complaints. Thus the circle of EVE life continues.

Conclusion, getting into fights over things that will not be changed for a looooong time is not worth it. Getting into discussions about how to make the most of what you have until the change occurs is invaluable.