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Caracal LV2 MIssion
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Lokee Skyhart
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-06 00:35:23 UTC
hey there, i've been trying to use battleclinic to load my fitting for my caracal, and it won't work..already enable javascript but still none :(

ohh well...here's my thought:

High:
5x Rapid Missile Launcher I

Med:
10MN AB
2x Mission Specific Shield Hardener
Large Shield Extender
Cap Recharger I

Low:
4x Ballistic Control Unit

as of now with my current skill i have:
DPS @91
Volley @550
Sustain Def 19
Max Def 19
Cap stable at 42%
Shield cap 3932.5HP
Shield Recharge 1062.5
Max Vel 528 m/s

PS:i haven't think about rigging it to save isk for my Drake, figuring on how to make it worth and relatively safe on lv2 sec mission with the current setup :D

what do you guys think about the fitting so far?

i was thinking about using 2x Adaptive Invul I at first but then i hesitate....
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-12-06 00:55:26 UTC
well a carcal is pretty much overkill for level2's so the fit should work. That said, you can probably just use passive hardners and a shield extender in the mids and throw on one damage control if you don't want to worry about cap. (it seems strange to have a cap recharger without a booster, but I'm not looking at eft so I don't know the details). I'd probably stick with an afterburner fit corax and range tank instead.

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Jim Roebuck
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-12-06 01:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jim Roebuck
The fit looks okay-ish, but I personally would wanna tweak that a little bit:

Lokee Skyhart wrote:

High:
5x Rapid Light Launchers

Med:10MN MWD
Mission Specific Shield Hardener
Adaptive Invul
x2 Large Sheild Extender
Low:
3x Ballistic Control Unit
Damage Control


Also: Drones drones drones. You have enough bandwidth for two light drones, suggest you train for drones if you haven't and throw a pair of Hobgoblins into the drone bay, that will help you with DPS a little bit. Just make sure they don't blow up.

When Bon Scott died and he appeared before St. Peter at the gates of Heaven, St. Peter looked at his record and told him he couldn't get in. Just then, God screams at Peter, "Let him in, Karen Carpenter is driving me nuts. I want to hear some music with balls. We'll haggle over the paperwork later." At least I hope that's what happened.
Lilliana Stelles
#4 - 2013-12-06 01:20:35 UTC
Rapid light missile launchers are kindof bad right now for PVE.

You may look into heavies (for cruisers) or even regular lights (for blitzing frigates), which both retain the caracal's bonus.

I'd also make sure you put some rigs on it.
Defense field purgers will easily double that sustained defense.
Consider replacing the cap recharger with a shield recharger once your skills improve, as that fit should be stable without it.

Not a forum alt. 
Paranoid Loyd
#5 - 2013-12-06 01:27:48 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Rapid light missile launchers are kindof bad right now for PVE.

You may look into heavies (for cruisers) or even regular lights (for blitzing frigates), which both retain the caracal's bonus.

I'd also make sure you put some rigs on it.
Defense field purgers will easily double that sustained defense.
Consider replacing the cap recharger with a shield recharger once your skills improve, as that fit should be stable without it.


You only get bonus to velocity for LMLs, but not ROF (so range bonus but not damage bonus). That being said, she is probably right, for level 2s anyway. Unless you can kill everything before you have to reload with RMLMs, LMLs will be better. I do not think there are enough cruisers in lvl 2s for heavies to be more useful the LMLs.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Jim Roebuck
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-12-06 01:28:48 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Rapid light missile launchers are kindof bad right now for PVE.

You may look into heavies (for cruisers) or even regular lights (for blitzing frigates), which both retain the caracal's bonus.

I'd also make sure you put some rigs on it.
Defense field purgers will easily double that sustained defense.
Consider replacing the cap recharger with a shield recharger once your skills improve, as that fit should be stable without it.


With a Caracal, you won't have need for a shield recharger anyways since you're gonna be able to pummel just about anything closest to you before they get into their optimal. Heavy launchers are nice too, but higher RoF from the rapids+ Caracal bonus adds to better DPS.

When Bon Scott died and he appeared before St. Peter at the gates of Heaven, St. Peter looked at his record and told him he couldn't get in. Just then, God screams at Peter, "Let him in, Karen Carpenter is driving me nuts. I want to hear some music with balls. We'll haggle over the paperwork later." At least I hope that's what happened.
Lilliana Stelles
#7 - 2013-12-06 01:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilliana Stelles
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Rapid light missile launchers are kindof bad right now for PVE.

You may look into heavies (for cruisers) or even regular lights (for blitzing frigates), which both retain the caracal's bonus.

I'd also make sure you put some rigs on it.
Defense field purgers will easily double that sustained defense.
Consider replacing the cap recharger with a shield recharger once your skills improve, as that fit should be stable without it.


You only get bonus to velocity for LMLs, but not ROF (so range bonus but not damage bonus). That being said, she is probably right, for level 2s anyway. Unless you can kill everything before you have to reload with RMLMs, LMLs will be better. I do not think there are enough cruisers in lvl 2s for heavies to be more useful the LMLs.


I did the math at some point.
2 rigor catalysts and a web OR target painter will make heavies do more damage against PVE frigates than lights in a caracal.

That being said, a low-skill fit doesn't usually have the slots to spare.

Edit: also, this whole fit could benefit from named modules instead of meta 1. "Arbalest" missile launchers deal significantly more damage.

Not a forum alt. 
Lokee Skyhart
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-12-06 01:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lokee Skyhart
hmmm by heavies..did you guys meant heavy assault launchers or heavy launchers?

rof against range...

i might have to experiment further and see which setups suits my playstyle. but yeah thanks for the advice guys hehehe

and about defense mechanism, is it true i should just use mission specifics amp instead of mission specific shield hard?

EDIT:should i left the cap at 30% ish stable by removing cap recharger and slot in target painter?
Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2013-12-06 01:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Hardeners give more resists and take cap, amps have less resists and do not take cap, that being said:

There is no reason to be cap stable, once you figure out how to properly do missions and dial in your setup you will be killing things so fast you won't have time to run out of cap.

Also this should be reiterated,
Lilliana Stelles wrote:

This whole fit could benefit from named modules instead of meta 1. "Arbalest" missile launchers deal significantly more damage.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Lilliana Stelles
#10 - 2013-12-06 01:47:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilliana Stelles
Lokee Skyhart wrote:
hmmm by heavies..did you guys meant heavy assault launchers or heavy launchers?

rof against range...

i might have to experiment further and see which setups suits my playstyle. but yeah thanks for the advice guys hehehe

and about defense mechanism, is it true i should just use mission specifics amp instead of mission specific shield hard?

EDIT:should i left the cap at 30% ish stable by removing cap recharger and slot in target painter?



if your cap is "stable" that's all you need. It actually recharges faster at 30% than at 100% (it's based on a curve, with ~30% being the highest recharge).

Amps don't use cap, hardeners do. Hardeners are generally "better".

Target painters will benefit heavy missile and heavy assault missiles, but not light missiles. Light missiles have such a small radius that it doesn't matter.

Heavy missiles are bigger, badder light missiles. They have longer range but do less damage than heavy assaults.
Heavy assault missiles are bigger, badder rockets. They are also harder to fit.

The choice between the two is playstyle, but you'll likely need a powergrid module or rig in order to fit heavy assault completely.

Not a forum alt. 
Lokee Skyhart
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-12-06 02:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lokee Skyhart
-DELETED-
Lokee Skyhart
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-12-06 03:09:30 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Lokee Skyhart wrote:
hmmm by heavies..did you guys meant heavy assault launchers or heavy launchers?

rof against range...

i might have to experiment further and see which setups suits my playstyle. but yeah thanks for the advice guys hehehe

and about defense mechanism, is it true i should just use mission specifics amp instead of mission specific shield hard?

EDIT:should i left the cap at 30% ish stable by removing cap recharger and slot in target painter?



if your cap is "stable" that's all you need. It actually recharges faster at 30% than at 100% (it's based on a curve, with ~30% being the highest recharge).

Amps don't use cap, hardeners do. Hardeners are generally "better".

Target painters will benefit heavy missile and heavy assault missiles, but not light missiles. Light missiles have such a small radius that it doesn't matter.

Heavy missiles are bigger, badder light missiles. They have longer range but do less damage than heavy assaults.
Heavy assault missiles are bigger, badder rockets. They are also harder to fit.

The choice between the two is playstyle, but you'll likely need a powergrid module or rig in order to fit heavy assault completely.


LOL!!!

yeaaap!!!i think im gonna go with the heavy assault launchers..i tried the blockade level 2 with rapid launchers,it takes FOREVER!!!

gonna buy me 1 power diagnostic system first and then fit 5x HAM and see what happens Twisted


EDIT: should i favor more DPS or Volley Damage if i'm doing missiles?

DPS:
HAL > HL

Volley:
HAL < HL
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-12-06 03:21:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
From the beginning for PvE always prioritize DPS over alpha. Higher DPS means you're killing things faster, high alpha means you're overkilling and wasting tons of damage.

Once you get to the point where you kill NPCs in just a few volleys, you will want to optimize the number of volleys needed to take down certain targets, which is a weird number that is neither DPS nor alpha, although related to both.


[edit] Alpha is your volley damage. I don't want to go through the post and replace it everywhere, and you get to learn a common EVE term.
SghnDubh
BattleClinic
#14 - 2013-12-06 03:51:14 UTC
Sorry you had trouble mate, ping me and we'll get you sorted.

Killboard, Loadouts, PLEX and EVEMon at BattleClinic
Lokee Skyhart
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-12-07 18:05:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lokee Skyhart
okay...after experimenting quite a bit i find that HML is far better than both RLML and HAM...

in my case:

1. RLML = ridiculous burst of damage BUT insanely long reload of time and relatively short range around 20ish km.by that time, my caracal almost goes kapoot...

2. HAM = high damage, short reload but still short range and my caracal gets chunked really fast

3. HML = moderate damage, long range, short reload, moderate RoF = WIN!

but i still got problems with frigates and elite one especially..

any advice which modules to help me fighting smaller ones?

1. stasis web, or
2. target painter

EDIT:i'm assuming that i had to get target painter, hence HML...and should i go with stasis web i should fit a HAM

currently i'm waiting for my level 5 missile operation skills to train other skills for reducing explosion radius and explosion velocity...which these 2 attributes should i prioritize???

and i'm planning to add 2 defence purge I and a rigor for rigs, but still need to save isk for them....

and the current results are:

[Caracal, Caracal 1]
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I
Ballistic Control System I
Overdrive Injector System I

Large Shield Extender I
EM Ward Field I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Target Painter I
Shield Recharger I

Heavy Missile Launcher I
Heavy Missile Launcher I
Heavy Missile Launcher I
Heavy Missile Launcher I
Heavy Missile Launcher I
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#16 - 2013-12-07 18:58:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Lokee Skyhart wrote:
2. HAM = high damage, short reload but still short range and my caracal gets chunked really fast

3. HML = moderate damage, long range, short reload, moderate RoF = WIN!

but i still got problems with frigates and elite one especially..

Was going to add that after I started reading. Caracal was one fo the best cruisers to PVE in before the nerf. Now it's somewhat lacking, since HMLs don't work well with lots of frigs and HAMs suck, if you have low tanking skills.

This hurts especially beginners ofc.

Lokee Skyhart wrote:
any advice which modules to help me fighting smaller ones?

1. stasis web, or
2. target painter

EDIT:i'm assuming that i had to get target painter, hence HML...and should i go with stasis web i should fit a HAM

currently i'm waiting for my level 5 missile operation skills to train other skills for reducing explosion radius and explosion velocity...which these 2 attributes should i prioritize???

and i'm planning to add 2 defence purge I and a rigor for rigs, but still need to save isk for them....

Usually you shouldn't need additional tank if you can keep your afterburner running. Try to do some cap skills and fuel conservation if it is an issue. Go for damage application and speed. Get rid of the shield recharger and fit 2 rigors.

I used to skill for range and rof first when using RLMLs before the nerf. But you're probably better off with Guided Missile Precision and Target Navigation Prediction for Heavies.

You also might want to evaluate Assault Frigates for Level 3s in order to not die from boredom. The Drake is a terrible slowboat.

Remove standings and insurance.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-12-07 19:57:33 UTC
Lokee Skyhart wrote:
any advice which modules to help me fighting smaller ones?

1. stasis web, or
2. target painter
3. Light Drones - that's what they for they are for. Blink

Other than that, against fast things, a web will increase your damage much more than a TP (~ 5 times better), but it has a much shorter range, so you will have to see at what distance you are usually killing things. Also, against small, slow things, a web doesn't help to increase damage, but a TP will, so a second web is rarely worth it in PvE.

Finally, with max skills, HAMs work pretty well on a Caracal, thanks to its range bonus. (You get 30km range with HAMs - up to 50km if you rig for it.) But with worse skills, the range suffers too much and they are no longer worth it.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#18 - 2013-12-07 21:17:57 UTC
Lokee Skyhart wrote:
but i still got problems with frigates and elite one especially..

any advice which modules to help me fighting smaller ones?



  • Drones (specifically Warrior II)
  • Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
  • Guided Missile Precision
  • Target Navigation Prediction
  • Webifier first, then Target Painter (the web will reduce the speed to the point that the elite frigate is not travelling faster than the explosion radius)

Day 0 Advice for New Players