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Out of Pod Experience

 
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Why I'm quitting Eve after five months...

Author
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#21 - 2013-12-04 23:07:57 UTC
A multi billion dollar quitter or troll.


The jury is out apparently, but I roll with the Troll!
Echo Echoplex
#22 - 2013-12-04 23:21:48 UTC
Re: 1.
Quote:
CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available.


You wanted realism, you got realism, at least where that's concerned. Man's reasons for a slaving mentality have to do with ego and power, and will always negate at certain points the use of automation for that reason, whether it's 1920 or 2520.

Re: 2.
Quote:
No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design.

Why should your skill level ever match that of someone with 10 years under his/her belt? If your skill level was matched by every newb within weeks of their training I imagine you'd feel cheated, and if not, you should. In real life a 20 year old man can never catch up in experience to a 50 year old man, but you can surpass him in skills. In Eve that's simply reversed because it makes sense. Here, you'll never surpass him in skills but you can in experience.

Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets. Gen. George S. Patton

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#23 - 2013-12-05 01:25:12 UTC
Samael Pserad wrote:
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
you're pretty peeved about the slavery thing, huh?

I guess that saying "it's just a video game" won't help in this situation, hmm?


Like all hate groups - it attributes to a large group of people responsibility for some evil.

But, yes, I studied religion in college, among other things, and I think it's a tremendously stupid and childish argument to attribute to religion, rather than the human capacity for evil and economic reality, the existence of slavery.

I don't patronize TV shows that portray blacks as stupid and/or bafoonish and/or criminal. I don't patronize film or movies that portray gays as serial killers and/or child molesters. I don't patronize video games that portray women as stupid, weak and childish. Why should I make an exception for CCP's decision to portray monotheistic religion as a sock-puppet of medieval Europe?


would you not agree that religion has, at least, played a part over history in condoning and/or downright used as justification for the enslavement of others? the bible, for just one example, sets a clear precedent in the old testament. even going so far as to lay out rules for which populations are acceptable and which are not. maybe this is the thread ccp was going for when constructing the basis for amarrian culture.
Oxylan
QRDELESH - Mutual Admiration Society
#24 - 2013-12-05 03:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxylan
Hi op, you are not enough HARDCORE like other EvE players, we love EvE like it is, most of us are close to fanatics than ordinary players even EvE is still far away from perfect, but this game still evole and we love it.

We dont playing EvE we are part of this game and EvE universe.

You should know this before start playing, that EvE is a lot different than games for mass like WoW etc...

If it bleed we can kill it.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-12-05 14:03:00 UTC
Samael Pserad wrote:

Not so much that so much as I am forced to chose among four races which I hate and have little to no redeeming qualities and the most appealing to me happens to be the one that most players are against because CCP decided to play on the pop culture myth that religion inherently causes slavery.


It certainly did in America.

All justifications for slavery in the South were directly from the Bible (in their minds). America built itself using this "social mechanic".

And you are upset about it in a fictive setting ? Unreal.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#26 - 2013-12-05 15:38:09 UTC
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Roll
Graygor
1kB Realty
#27 - 2013-12-05 15:43:31 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Roll


Attraction to the thing you hate most? Like this little gem from today on the BBC.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate

Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#28 - 2013-12-05 15:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Slade Trillgon
Graygor wrote:
Slade Trillgon wrote:
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Roll


Attraction to the thing you hate most? Like this little gem from today on the BBC.


I find it utterly hilarious how many racist neo-nazi organizations are ultimately brought to their knees because of the complete and total hypocrisy of their 'charismatic and unfailing leaders' Lol
Samael Pserad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-12-05 16:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Samael Pserad
Echo Echoplex wrote:
Re: 1.
Quote:
CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available.


You wanted realism, you got realism, at least where that's concerned. Man's reasons for a slaving mentality have to do with ego and power, and will always negate at certain points the use of automation for that reason, whether it's 1920 or 2520.

Re: 2.
Quote:
No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design.

Why should your skill level ever match that of someone with 10 years under his/her belt? If your skill level was matched by every newb within weeks of their training I imagine you'd feel cheated, and if not, you should. In real life a 20 year old man can never catch up in experience to a 50 year old man, but you can surpass him in skills. In Eve that's simply reversed because it makes sense. Here, you'll never surpass him in skills but you can in experience.



Re: 1

No, that's not realistic. Like I said, it's like saying the Caldari plow fields with Oxen. I might believe that the Amarr decided a Minmatar planet was an "apostate planet" and wiped out the entire population or something, but slavery simply isn't economically beneficial in advanced technological societies. It's far more expensive to feed a human than provide energy to a machine. Slavery is rarely about power and usually about the fact that humans were the only source of skilled labor. Even the deep south in the antebellum period used Cotton gins and didn't make slaves separate cotton by hand because, well, the machine is far more effective and efficient. Ego and power help rationalize slavery, but its underlying reasons are economic because if it weren't in some way economically efficient, it would constitute a waste of a civilizations' resources. In a technologically advanced society such as "New Eden" - it's completely obsolete. Regardless, it's not that I hate all slavery lore, it's that it's very clear that they are blaming Abrahamic monotheism specifically for slavery - which not only negates its ubiquitous existence in primitive civilizations, but constitutes a severe bigoted attitude on the side of the creators. Nearly every Amarr ship is named after something Biblical or from Christianity, the object of their criticism is clear. I cannot believe they included a blood raider mission where they make fun of the Eucharist by having one of the Blood Raiders insist they "don't actually eat people, they eat a protein wafer representative of people."

Like I said, I have limits to how many offensive stereotypes you can include in a game before I get upset. I don't care if you're going after Jews, Blacks, Christians, atheists, gays, Mexicans - whatever. The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.

I play a game by Bethesda and I get a parody in Fallout 3 of "God-fearing Texans" who are eating people. But I also get presentations of charitable and good Christian people in other locations in the game - the creators of those games going out of their way to indicate that religious belief is complex, ranging from the farcical and highly dangerous to the high-minded, good, and charitable. Decent people don't put up with offensive and bigoted stereotypes.

Re: 2

Yep, that's why people who state the game is "a challenge" is like saying playing a slot machine is a "challenge." It's a sucker's bet to play a game where the odds will always be against you and there is no plateau wherein you are equal with the other players. Hence, goodbye.
Alpheias
The Khaleph
#30 - 2013-12-05 16:54:46 UTC
Samael Pserad wrote:
Hence, goodbye.



About time, I was running out of popcorn.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#31 - 2013-12-05 16:56:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Samael Pserad wrote:
The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.



No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive.

I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's.


Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Pepper Solette
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-12-05 17:07:36 UTC
It's ok Samael, i got your back bro.

http://tinypic.com/r/dgktpi/5

** Miko Sunji:  "There is no better way to find out if you can swim, than swimming for your life."**

Samael Pserad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-12-05 17:26:18 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Samael Pserad wrote:
The Amarr lore is highly offensive to people with a knowledge of monotheistic religion.



No. I have an in-depth knowledge of monotheistic religions. I find them all offensive.

I'm pretty much "anti-gun ownership" (but not loudly or vocally), but thats not gonna stop me from playing FPS's.


Either you are taking the game way too seriously, or you are just doing a really terrible job of trolling. Not really sure. Bad, flawed arguments make dialog next to impossible anyway, so good riddance.


I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen.
Samael Pserad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-12-05 17:33:07 UTC
Slade Trillgon wrote:
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Roll


The other races seemed more evil.
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#35 - 2013-12-05 17:35:46 UTC
Samael Pserad wrote:
Slade Trillgon wrote:
I find it ironic that a trol.. I mean player who claims to be athiest and anti-slavery would chose the Religious Slaving zealot class to play Roll


The other races seemed more evil.



The slaves seemed more evil then the en-slavers.


I said it before.


Troll.
Dangirdas Bachir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-12-05 17:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dangirdas Bachir
Samael Pserad wrote:
1. CCP's bigotry against religion. I'm an atheist, but a society as advanced technologically as Amarr would recognize that humans are an incredibly inefficient energy investment to perform work when technology and energy sources far beyond the first world are available. A human being puts out about 80 watts sustained power for external at the investment of about 1200 Watts for the sustaining of life. That's an efficiency of less than 10%. Because there's no reasonable reason to believe advanced technological societies would ever consider slavery, there's no reason to believe that the attribution of slavery to the one theocracy in the game is anything other than a childish atheist's CCCP straw man.

CCP's response: "Yes, the Amarr were capable of harnessing energy to bend space-time for faster than light travel, but they really needed Minmatar slaves to thresh wheat by hand because religion, obviously."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level

Saying a futuristic society with the alleged technological capabilities of the societies in game would engage in human slavery is as stupid as saying the Caldari plow their fields with oxen. Obviously, this wouldn't happen because, well, obviously, oxen are inefficient, slow, and expensive compared to the technological capacity of the society.

2. No matter what I do, my character will always be 10 years behind every other character. This is an absolute fail in game design. What CCP should have done is get some differential equations together and come up with a training speed multiplier that is applied to later started characters allowing them to catch up to older characters while still lagging behind somewhat, but not as much as they always will. This way, players who join the game late can actually have some legitimate hope of being able to contend with ten year old characters at some point in the future. Most older players would dislike that, I'm sure, but it would be far more reasonable then the current system which doesn't allow for simultaneous avatar customization and player advancement. Sure, you can work your way up to the cashflow to buy a new character, but that's a somewhat insane endeavor. The game, as it is, has nearly nothing to do with skill or experience, and comes down to the fact that someone else just has an older character than you and you have to wait another 2 years to maybe be able to reasonably contend with them.

3. Unfriendly players. CCP called it the "Eve Gate" (Eve, through whom all evil, mythologically, entered the world) because I'm sure they anticipated the kind of douchey people that would take over the game. It'd be fun if some of the major alliances were interested in negotiation or developing rules for interaction in territory they control or something. For example, in any realistic political entity, nearly no government is going to just shoot people on site for no reason whatsoever - that, of course, is not Eve. There's no contacting the pilot to arrange terms for safe passage or enforcement of rules by major null and low-sec alliances - it's just shoot whatever is neutral because you can. It's lame and takes out the factor of politics/economics/security enforcement etc. that is supposed to be present in space trading games. I've met about three-five people in five months of playing who were actually friendly and one of them I gave my billions of space stuff to.

4. This game isn't fun for new players - every major alliance knows that new characters aren't particularly useful to them and there's no reason to really go out of their way to protect them from pirate types. There doesn't seem to be any major alliances with a kind of ethos that wants to play the game in some "honorable" fashion. Instead, it feels like a bunch of street gangs going at one another rather than empires who behave with decorum, ideology, and philosophy.

5. Seriously, CCP, apply a differential modifier to the training time of later toons - you're creating a caste system for your player base - if there's no hope of ever being as good at the guy who's been playing for the last five or ten years - there's really no sense in playing because you're not going to be able to get back at him later no matter what because you'll always be five or ten years behind him.

1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible.

2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years.

3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing.

4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player.

5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play.

EVE EVE STARGALACTIC CITY B I T C H

Samoth Egnoled
Caldari Provisions
#37 - 2013-12-05 17:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Samoth Egnoled
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#38 - 2013-12-05 17:49:45 UTC
Samael Pserad wrote:

I draw the line when the developers of a game imply that Catholics are cannibals because of the Eucharist like that one mission where a blood raider tells you "We don't actually eat people, we eat a wafer symbolic of people" or something along those lines. It's too bad CCP won't go after Islam with such vitriol because they know what would happen.


Magic Mushrooms are bad for you, m'kay ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Samael Pserad
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-12-05 17:50:29 UTC
Dangirdas Bachir wrote:

1. This is a game. Which means that everything is possible.
2. Yes, this just makes it more realistic. You don't come to a 10+ year physics teacher and expect that you can more than him when you have only been studying the same subject 3 years.
3. This is sandbox, which means you will find douchebags, this is what is so great about this game. That douchebags can exist. Most games just ban them, which is not realistic. Besides i have been playing the for a month right now and i have mostly only met nice and friendly people. Maybe you just suck at socializing.
4. I'm having quite a lot of fun thus being a new player.
5. Yes you can, you just have to counter play.


1. But the implication CCP is making is clear: religion, particularly Christianity = slavery. Therefore, Martin Luther King Jr. was an advocate of slavery, as was Harriet Beecher Stowe or Levi Coffin...

2. No, it just makes it unappealing to play because there's no plateau which means that your character will always be inferior to a vast majority of other players. People play games because they like mobility - there's no mobility with a system that gives extreme advantages to people who have played for ten years and no real hope for newer players to catch up.

3. Yep, I suppose I just suck at socializing. The massive amount of hostile comments on the message boards is clearly indicative of the amount of douchebags in game and the fact that a large portion of new players just hang out in high sec because they don't really have a choice to go anywhere else because it's oh so fun PvP to gank T1 frigates in your squad of T2 cruisers or whatever. Realistic would be that there were some alliances with codes of honor or something along those lines. I.E. - you're free to roam their null space until you commit hostile acts or something. As it is, just shooting anything neutral that gets near you is just lame.

4. I'm not.

5. I don't know what you mean. I sat there and looked at how long it would take to be particularly effective in combat and I thought: "do I really want to spend the next year just running data and combat sites or mining while dodging everything and never getting the satisfaction of payback?" And, I arrived at the conclusion, no, I really don't.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#40 - 2013-12-05 17:52:42 UTC


"I've been to Paradise....but I've never been to me !"

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882