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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

First post First post First post
Author
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#661 - 2013-12-04 23:31:04 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Ish Eistiras wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tom-A-Hawk wrote:
Bad and boring design, change those scanning and data bonuses, they're useless


Agreed make the ship an escort carrier designed to compliment the srat and astrios.

Currently the idea I like the most, unique flavor (potentially) in the BS range and a good "my first carrier" there are all ready mini dreads in the new mauraders, so a carrier lite would fit in.

So maybe something like this?

Nestor


Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:

+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200mbit/sec//500m3

Has a ship maintenance bay about the size of 2 cruisers, maybe? Nothing big, but enough to fit a couple ships.

Just a quick idea.


Needs a little work but I totally like where you are going

Any ideas? I feel like this has to be fixed a little, but the 2 Billion ISK price tag makes me think that this may be alright already.

A Sub-Carrier would totally be worth it, considering it'll be able to field a max 8 heavies/sentries.

Updated version:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#662 - 2013-12-04 23:33:11 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
In the posts for the Stratios and Astero I think I mentioned that one of the designs we are trying to emulate is the Gnosis. Ships capable of doing many things but being the absolute best for few.


How often do Gnoses actually get used, though? If you make a hard-to-get, expensive ship that's ok at a bunch of things, but doesn't have any one thing it excels at, you're just going to see people spend less money on three or four cheaper ships that each excel at their role.

Drones? Use a Domi.

Logi? Use a Guardian or Oneiros.

Exploration? Use a CovOps.

Cheaper, easier to get, better at their job.

You really would be amazed..

Before the SOE Cruiser, it was something I was seeing everywhere for scanning and running sites in Highsec.. Wasn't the Best ship, but was one most people could use with ease.. having bonuses for whatever they are trained into..

Even now with the SOE Cruiser, I still see them on a regular basis..
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#663 - 2013-12-04 23:33:47 UTC
We already have a door that goes unopened, now we're getting a shuttle that will go undocked? CCP, I am disappoint.

The only suggestion that really tickled me was the interdiction nullifier idea- potentially the low agility + armour tanking + lower amount of low slots means that you have to choose between nano to overcome this or tankiness. I understand why people might feel that any interdiction nullification on a BS is OP though (heavens forbid something new and innovative is attempted).

Logi drone RR bonus feels like it fits the theme of the ship more, overcomes some of the issues mentioned (range being the biggest) and I like the suggestion that it's a back-door into rebalancing logi drones a bit (why can't you self-rep, for instance?).
J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#664 - 2013-12-04 23:34:04 UTC
I'll also point out that I like the idea of the "carrier" (drones and logi) BS as proposed above, but I don't think this is the ship to do it with, unless a shield line is soon to follow. If a shield line *is* soon to follow, the proposed idea would make a lot of sense. But I imagine it isn't, and instead, we're to expect a triage variant equivalent to bastion marauders.
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#665 - 2013-12-04 23:36:08 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3


This has got to be the most radical ship design ever suggested with a straight face. Granted, I would love the idea of another faction capitol ship but the Nestor is not a carrier and it never will be. It is a Battleship and even if it has both drone and logi capability it needs to remain within the bounds of a BS. If this design is ever remotely implemented it will be as a limited edition prize, not a player produced ship. That said, an SoE carrier would be pretty cool, even if my chance of actually owning one is approximately zero.
Herpp Derpp
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#666 - 2013-12-04 23:36:40 UTC
For the 666th post, I suggest adding a missle bonus to the ship. That is all.
Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#667 - 2013-12-04 23:37:24 UTC
Will it still be able to bridge? (cause of its low mas....)

i just dont see it being used over a covert cruiser if it cannot be bridged (with a blops)...... - yes i know its normal a trait that comes with things that can fit a covert cloak... but how about an exception :D
Victor Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#668 - 2013-12-04 23:38:29 UTC
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
If it's not getting the cloak, will it still have the ability to use jump bridges? It would couple nicely with the mass reduction...

I'm tired of seeing every new ship having a drone damage bonus (whether it be raw damage or projection). Perhaps a support ship like this one would be the perfect time to try out some other drone bonuses? Perhaps to the currently unusable logi drones?

Energy turrets and logi bonus without a energy turret capacitor reduction? Might as well give it another role bonus... "All energy neutralizers on grid are automatically activated on this hull"

But in all seriousness, it has a logi bonus, a resistance bonus, and a damage bonus. This is beyond overpowered for spider battleships. Let's hope it's too expensive for practical use in pvp...


What if you merge the logi drone idea(unique) with the subcap carrier idea that seems popular. Something like

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range
300% bonus to Remote Armor Repair Drone effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200mbit/sec//500m3

Something a bit more unique than an expensive mini carrier. It also gives it the chance to still rep something once every neut on the field lands on this thing.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#669 - 2013-12-04 23:39:23 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

This analysis makes a pretty big assumption regarding isk/lp return and if the negative reactions are justified that level of return isn't likely.


Not really, I can make 4000isk per LP is I slow sell stratio BPCs, the price of Nestor (after the first rush anyway) is going to be pegged to the stratios/aster/prob price which ever is highest because the people farming the LP will hit the item with the highest return.

Right now a Stratios BPC easily pulls 3000isk/LP so expecting a 2bil BPC price isn't much of an assumption. That will drift down by spring of course, but the price for the SOE cruisers has been pretty steady of late.

Judging from many of the comments here, the covert cloak is a big help to the stratios lasting market price. This doesn't have that. Granted there will be a big initial rush, there always is, but that won't be the permanent price setter. I just don't see this having the appeal of its cruiser companion as proposed. I could be wrong though, I'm just saying that if it really is as lackluster as some people say, it won't get the same return and as such prices will be lower than simply extrapolating from Stratios returns would suggest.


Right....so whom exactly is going to waste the LP to build these? You can't plex for them. If stratios is making 3000 per LP and Nestor is making 1.5, guess what I'm selling?

....aint a Nestor

Most LP items are in good market supply at a variety of isk/LP returns. So to answer your opening question, as with all low return items, someone else will do it.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#670 - 2013-12-04 23:40:29 UTC
The next question, since this is a ship with over 2B hull cost, is how many talos to gank it in hisec
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#671 - 2013-12-04 23:41:12 UTC
So... when do we a get missile-based pirate faction BS? Maybe Caldari/Minmatar?
You could give it a hull bonus to Rapids so the big red clown nose module that goes on the front makes sense.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#672 - 2013-12-04 23:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Victor Maximus wrote:
J A Aloysiusz wrote:
If it's not getting the cloak, will it still have the ability to use jump bridges? It would couple nicely with the mass reduction...

I'm tired of seeing every new ship having a drone damage bonus (whether it be raw damage or projection). Perhaps a support ship like this one would be the perfect time to try out some other drone bonuses? Perhaps to the currently unusable logi drones?

Energy turrets and logi bonus without a energy turret capacitor reduction? Might as well give it another role bonus... "All energy neutralizers on grid are automatically activated on this hull"

But in all seriousness, it has a logi bonus, a resistance bonus, and a damage bonus. This is beyond overpowered for spider battleships. Let's hope it's too expensive for practical use in pvp...


What if you merge the logi drone idea(unique) with the subcap carrier idea that seems popular. Something like

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range
300% bonus to Remote Armor Repair Drone effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200mbit/sec//500m3

Something a bit more unique than an expensive mini carrier. It also gives it the chance to still rep something once every neut on the field lands on this thing.

This is a good one- I like this mix with my idea quite a bit.

It'd make more sense, too, because it'd allow the turrets to be used while having rep drones take up some of the drone bay.
Moonaura
The Dead Rabbit Society
#673 - 2013-12-04 23:56:59 UTC
Personally, I think it looks fun.

I just wish you'd also consider the extensive feedback on the RLML/RHML thread CCP Rise. We've put a lot of effort into explaining our feelings on it all, hopefully as constructively as you've asked for.

"The game is mostly played by men - 97%. But 40% of them play as women... so thats fine."  - CCP t0rfifrans 

NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#674 - 2013-12-04 23:59:44 UTC
Cant we just as a Christmas present, have this covops cloaked?
Just until New Years.


I really want to see the drunken hilarity that would ensue everywhere.
Afterwards blame it on collective consumption of alcoholic beverages that prevented anyone from bothering to look out the window and see the giant ship.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#675 - 2013-12-05 00:04:16 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
A logistics battleship. Logistics battleships are just a terrible idea for several reasons, mainly the fact that they're slow, would have to have short range to avoid trampling on actual specialized logistics ships, and lock too slowly to be of actual use in anything more than a very small engagement.


Frankly, I wouldn't mind having my logi cruisers trampled on a little bit, if it meant approaching the survivability of the ships we're keeping alive. Sure, we've got smaller sigs and move faster, but sentries don't care about that nearly as much as large turrets do. And since these days, the only things out there in mass engagements are cruiser-sized guns, dreads, and sentry drones (be it from domis or slowcats), I'd like half a chance of not blowing up when I get primaried.

Don't get me wrong: I don't expect a functional logistics battleship to ever happen - it'd need low mass, high mobility, and better scan resolution, while retaining a decent tank and a reasonable price tag. Not happening.

Still, I wouldn't mind it if, instead of a cloth-wearing spacepriest, I could be a damned cleric in full plate, just once. Even my guardian feels paper-thin out there these days.
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#676 - 2013-12-05 00:13:57 UTC
I'll gladly take the ship as is. No need to put a wrapper arround it, it will get used instantly.

Esrevid slams pile of LP on counter

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#677 - 2013-12-05 00:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Arrendis wrote:
Sure, we've got smaller sigs and move faster, but sentries don't care about that nearly as much as large turrets do.

Except they do. They have the same signature resolution as large turrets, and their tracking speed is also roughly equivalent.

Edit: Replaced with a better comparison that includes LR turrets as well.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#678 - 2013-12-05 00:21:01 UTC
To repost a mix with my idea that's been proposed:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range
300% bonus to Remote Armor Repair Drone effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200mbit/sec//500m3

I think this would make it worth the 2.2 bil price tag it'll have.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#679 - 2013-12-05 00:30:52 UTC
Phoenix Jones looks at the suggestion of a 8 to 10 drone battleship and wonders if the forum warriors went insane

SOE (No not Sony, but Sisters of Eve), are explorers and humanitarian aid activists, not combat specialists. Why are you all trying to max DPS this ship out by giving it a ridiculous drone bandwidth in a battleship hull?

The focus cannot be its potential dps via drones, it has to be its support functions as a whole else you've merely made this a Guardian-Vexor 8 Low Slot Mega Tanked with Resistance Bonus Spider-tanking 10 sentry gun monster. You have to attempt of at least put out a suggestion or a reason for that at least fakes this being remotely balanced in game.

Yes it will cost a lot.
No it can't beat out Every ship in its class because of it.

People are trying to compare this battleship to a carrier. First and foremost, its a Battleship, NOT a carrier. Can it carry over functions, sure, but creating a carrier like ship that can operate in high-sec is bizarre to say the least.

Repair bonuses is one thing, as it would sit in-between the logistics cruisers and the carrier (which is fine because there IS nothing in-between the logistics cruiser and the carrier). But the drone suggestion will not work.

Why... because ITS A BATTLESHIP made for a Humanitarian Aid Organization.

You are all going a bit off the deep-end with trying to turn this into some dps 10 sentry gun cloaky combat super battleship for the sole reason that its expensive..

Yaay!!!!

Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#680 - 2013-12-05 00:35:18 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Phoenix Jones looks at the suggestion of a 8 to 10 drone battleship and wonders if the forum warriors went insane

SOE (No not Sony, but Sisters of Eve), are explorers and humanitarian aid activists, not combat specialists. Why are you all trying to max DPS this ship out by giving it a ridiculous drone bandwidth in a battleship hull?

The focus cannot be its potential dps via drones, it has to be its support functions as a whole else you've merely made this a Guardian-Vexor 8 Low Slot Mega Tanked with Resistance Bonus Spider-tanking 10 sentry gun monster. You have to attempt of at least put out a suggestion or a reason for that at least fakes this being remotely balanced in game.

Yes it will cost a lot.
No it can't beat out Every ship in its class because of it.

People are trying to compare this battleship to a carrier. First and foremost, its a Battleship, NOT a carrier. Can it carry over functions, sure, but creating a carrier like ship that can operate in high-sec is bizarre to say the least.

Repair bonuses is one thing, as it would sit in-between the logistics cruisers and the carrier (which is fine because there IS nothing in-between the logistics cruiser and the carrier). But the drone suggestion will not work.

Why... because ITS A BATTLESHIP made for a Humanitarian Aid Organization.

You are all going a bit off the deep-end with trying to turn this into some dps 10 sentry gun cloaky combat super battleship for the sole reason that its expensive..

Well I'm just being creative- and the SoE isn't all about aid and rescue, if you can't tell by the arc- they have some...darker things going on too Smile

But I think it could almost be reasonable- I mean, the original +10% damage/hp bonus for Gal BS would only have given it about half of a sentry/heavy less damage- this idea only served to split it up more.

If you want, it could honestly look like this:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
10% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Energy Transfer Array range
300% bonus to Remote Armor Repair Drone effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
125mbit/sec//500m3

And it'd only be slightly weaker.

The Sub-Carrier theme was only a development off of that to split the damage application more.