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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#641 - 2013-12-04 22:49:53 UTC
I thought about it after posting and decided having a full 10 heavies on the field would be a bit much coupled with the damage bonus. So I edited it down to 200 mb/s so that it maxes out at 8 Heavies or you can fly 6 heavies and 4 meds, or mix it up from there. That's a bit closer to being balanced I think.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#642 - 2013-12-04 22:50:01 UTC
Ish Eistiras wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Ish Eistiras wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tom-A-Hawk wrote:
Bad and boring design, change those scanning and data bonuses, they're useless


Agreed make the ship an escort carrier designed to compliment the srat and astrios.

Currently the idea I like the most, unique flavor (potentially) in the BS range and a good "my first carrier" there are all ready mini dreads in the new mauraders, so a carrier lite would fit in.

So maybe something like this?

Nestor


Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:

+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness
Can not field sentry drones

Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 0 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
250mbit/sec//1000m3

Has a ship maintenance bay about the size of 2 cruisers, maybe? Nothing big, but enough to fit a couple ships.

Just a quick idea.

This would serve to make the ship fun, still very expensive gank bait for what it is, but fun. More then just the drone control bonus though, I feel it should be set up to specifically prevent/inhibit the use of sentry drones in favor of heavy drones. Makes it still useful in pvp/pve without the drone assist volley potential of sentry (or at least lesser degree).

Well, it'd be just a little difficult to make it use heavies more effectively without making its sentries better as well. As it is, it could use a total of 8 heavies or sentries.

I gave it tracking/optimal/velocity bonus to drones specifically to aid with heavies, really- it'd make them much more effective.
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#643 - 2013-12-04 22:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
Doesnt make sence to me.

Covert frigate and Cruiser, the BS should have been a Black Ops.

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#644 - 2013-12-04 22:50:37 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

This analysis makes a pretty big assumption regarding isk/lp return and if the negative reactions are justified that level of return isn't likely.


Not really, I can make 4000isk per LP is I slow sell stratio BPCs, the price of Nestor (after the first rush anyway) is going to be pegged to the stratios/aster/prob price which ever is highest because the people farming the LP will hit the item with the highest return.

Right now a Stratios BPC easily pulls 3000isk/LP so expecting a 2bil BPC price isn't much of an assumption. That will drift down by spring of course, but the price for the SOE cruisers has been pretty steady of late.

Judging from many of the comments here, the covert cloak is a big help to the stratios lasting market price. This doesn't have that. Granted there will be a big initial rush, there always is, but that won't be the permanent price setter. I just don't see this having the appeal of its cruiser companion as proposed. I could be wrong though, I'm just saying that if it really is as lackluster as some people say, it won't get the same return and as such prices will be lower than simply extrapolating from Stratios returns would suggest.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#645 - 2013-12-04 22:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3
Grenn Putubi
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#646 - 2013-12-04 22:58:21 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
hmm.. that's a lot like my idea, but it has a lot more potential DPS.


The difference between them is that your fit only requires 2 skills to be really effective, while mine requires 3. You need to train Amarr for the tank, Gallente for the Drone bonuses, and Advance Drone Interfacing for the Drone Control Units. Not to mention the hassles of dealing with a 4000m3 hi slot module with a 60mil price tag stealing all your hi slots if you really want to use them to get extra drones on the field. I also chose to only provide a velocity bonus to drones not a tracking speed/range bonus so it won't be as useful to sit with 8 Sentries deployed as it would be to keep mobile with 8 Heavies or a mix of drones.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#647 - 2013-12-04 22:58:29 UTC
Really think something other then a carrier is going to be able to launcher more then 5 drones? Come on really? Do some of you REALLY think before you throw ideas out there. This is why CCP listens to us less and less. You aren't getting more then 5 drones launched at a time from this ship. You aren't getting a covert cloak. Most you will get out of this is MAYBE a range repair bonus instead of amount. As I don't see why it needs a repair bonus, I think giving it the blackops cloak velocity bonus be better, and allowing it to jump through covert and regular cnyos. And some saying give it 7H, 6M, 7L, or 6H, 6M, 8L, really? How are you going to add slots but not take them from anywhere else on the ship? Something like 6H, 6M, 7L, or 7H, 5M, 7L would be ok, but you don't just add slots without taking them from somwhere, makes no since at all.
But keep coming up with crazy ideas that make it either OP as hell, something it isn't going to be, or just all around crazy and see if CCP takes anything we say serious.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#648 - 2013-12-04 23:00:10 UTC
Here is a unique bonus that people would be willing to pay for

Role Bonus: Drones are ignored by non-capsuleer targeting systems.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#649 - 2013-12-04 23:00:42 UTC
Quote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
hmm.. that's a lot like my idea, but it has a lot more potential DPS.


The difference between them is that your fit only requires 2 skills to be really effective, while mine requires 3. You need to train Amarr for the tank, Gallente for the Drone bonuses, and Advance Drone Interfacing for the Drone Control Units. Not to mention the hassles of dealing with a 4000m3 hi slot module with a 60mil price tag stealing all your hi slots if you really want to use them to get extra drones on the field. I also chose to only provide a velocity bonus to drones not a tracking speed/range bonus so it won't be as useful to sit with 8 Sentries deployed as it would be to keep mobile with 8 Heavies or a mix of drones.


You are joking right? Only need 2 skills huh. Just Amarr and Gallent BS to at least L4, plus good drone skills, ok to good repair skills, ok to good laser skills. Good armor skills and ec and if you plan to use it in it's role good exploring skills. Wow, just wow.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#650 - 2013-12-04 23:06:39 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
I love the look of the ship, but it does need stats to change.

I've said something along these lines previously, but it is a vary mixed-up ship with a wide variety of bonuses.

But I've seen a suggestion I like, so I made up something:

Nestor

Amarr Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% bonus to scan strength of probes
+15 virus strength to data and relic analyzers

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 200 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 95 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700



+1 to the OP ship that will never ever see the day of light
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#651 - 2013-12-04 23:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Quote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
hmm.. that's a lot like my idea, but it has a lot more potential DPS.


The difference between them is that your fit only requires 2 skills to be really effective, while mine requires 3. You need to train Amarr for the tank, Gallente for the Drone bonuses, and Advance Drone Interfacing for the Drone Control Units. Not to mention the hassles of dealing with a 4000m3 hi slot module with a 60mil price tag stealing all your hi slots if you really want to use them to get extra drones on the field. I also chose to only provide a velocity bonus to drones not a tracking speed/range bonus so it won't be as useful to sit with 8 Sentries deployed as it would be to keep mobile with 8 Heavies or a mix of drones.


You are joking right? Only need 2 skills huh. Just Amarr and Gallent BS to at least L4, plus good drone skills, ok to good repair skills, ok to good laser skills. Good armor skills and ec and if you plan to use it in it's role good exploring skills. Wow, just wow.

Look at the last idea I posted. It may seem very powerful, but with its relative availability, it may be nearly worth the price- if you want the same thing for half the price, you could get a carrier- this is basically evolving into a sub-carrier that costs twice as much.

Also, at most it could field 8 Heavies/sentries. A carrier has the ability to use 10, and costs half as much.

This ship would be a very expensive and more mobile but weaker version of a carrier in this design.

EDIT: I'll just put it into this post:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3

However, I've also submitted a couple other ideas, such as:

Nestor

Amarr Battleship Bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% bonus to scan strength of probes
+15 virus strength to data and relic analyzers

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 200 / 500

Which one would you rather use?
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#652 - 2013-12-04 23:09:42 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 0 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3


Quoting this so its not changed but love how its been +1'd when it cant fit any turrets but still has a laser bonus.
Also making a ship that can field 10 drones is seriously encroaching on what makes the Guardian-Vexor unique and commanded the insane price tag it does.

With this not only are you demeaning the Guardian-Vexor as is, but you drop its pricetag and delete its uniqueness in New Eden.
Roy Alleyne
Dark Knowledge.
#653 - 2013-12-04 23:12:50 UTC
As an exploration pilot, I can't see a BS being used for solo exploration. The key attributes a ship needs for the exploration role is to be able to cover a lot of ground quickly and the ability to remain undetected, with the Nestor unable to do either of these things effectively. Even if you give the ship a jump drive you still need another ship to light the cyno. If this is the case then the cyno ship can have the virus strength and probing bonuses for exploration. With the Stratios and Astero fulfilling the exploration with teeth roles have the Nestor mix with the SoE's humanitarian theme, making it a logistics ship with teeth. I imagined the Nestor being a deep space rescue ship able to get on the field quickly to apply reps and save lives.

As to it's capabilities I was thinking removing the virus strength bonus at the minimum with the probe strength next. Replace them with a bonus to cloaked speed and maybe even a jump drive for mobility in hostile space. I would also like to see them have a bonus to both armor and shield reppers but I have no opinion on the range issue.

I see these ships being used in smaller class wormholes as a cloaking logi to both support T3s and add dps. As for Kspace, I can see explorers dual boxing combat sites with a covop or SoE ship running exploration sites and lighting cynos to bring in the Nestor's bigger guns for combat sigs and, if on the off chance that CCP does manage to squeeze a covert jump drive into the Nestor's hull, BlOps gangs liking them for logi but only if they have the isk to replace them regularly.

Unlike frigates and specialized cruisers I can't see a BS trying to sneak through hostile gates even with a covop cloak, which no BS should have anyway. With the SoE goal of exploration covered, combining their humanitarian bent with their philosophy of self defense and signature cloaking technology would result in the ship described above, at least in this pilot's humble opinion
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#654 - 2013-12-04 23:14:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

This analysis makes a pretty big assumption regarding isk/lp return and if the negative reactions are justified that level of return isn't likely.


Not really, I can make 4000isk per LP is I slow sell stratio BPCs, the price of Nestor (after the first rush anyway) is going to be pegged to the stratios/aster/prob price which ever is highest because the people farming the LP will hit the item with the highest return.

Right now a Stratios BPC easily pulls 3000isk/LP so expecting a 2bil BPC price isn't much of an assumption. That will drift down by spring of course, but the price for the SOE cruisers has been pretty steady of late.

Judging from many of the comments here, the covert cloak is a big help to the stratios lasting market price. This doesn't have that. Granted there will be a big initial rush, there always is, but that won't be the permanent price setter. I just don't see this having the appeal of its cruiser companion as proposed. I could be wrong though, I'm just saying that if it really is as lackluster as some people say, it won't get the same return and as such prices will be lower than simply extrapolating from Stratios returns would suggest.


Right....so whom exactly is going to waste the LP to build these? You can't plex for them. If stratios is making 3000 per LP and Nestor is making 1.5, guess what I'm selling?

....aint a Nestor
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#655 - 2013-12-04 23:15:01 UTC
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 0 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3


Quoting this so its not changed but love how its been +1'd when it cant fit any turrets but still has a laser bonus.
Also making a ship that can field 10 drones is seriously encroaching on what makes the Guardian-Vexor unique and commanded the insane price tag it does.

With this not only are you demeaning the Guardian-Vexor as is, but you drop its pricetag and delete its uniqueness in New Eden.

Well, I apologize for insulting the GV with this, but I really just tried to make a ship to be a mini-carrier sort of thing.

Also, I had copied+pasted from a post i had previously made and tried changing things, but made a typo (that's the turret typo).

Here's it again:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3

Also, it'll be slightly less effective than a carrier (only up to 8 sentries/heavies) and will be twice as expensive. I feel as if this is almost reasonable, if not in need of slight changes.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#656 - 2013-12-04 23:17:31 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3


like it! if its like a subcapital carrier its worth a 2bill price tag

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Razgriz Shaishi
Perkone
Caldari State
#657 - 2013-12-04 23:18:34 UTC
Quinn Corvez wrote:
Of course price is a factor in balance. Don't be so ignorant.

Apparently you havent learned the lesson that CCP learned years ago when they first introduced titans to the game. Never count on price being a balancing factor, ESPECIALLY where fleets and alliances are concerned.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#658 - 2013-12-04 23:19:41 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Neatening up my idea:

Nestor

Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:
+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness


Slot Layout: 5H, 6M, 8L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200 mbit/sec // 1000 m3

Ship Maintainence Bay: 350,000 m3


like it! if its like a subcapital carrier its worth a 2bill price tag

Exactly! Big smile It's supposed to be a slightly more fragile carrier that can field 8 total heavies/sentries, but costs twice as much- I'd pay 2 bil for a ship like this, and I feel like it's pretty reasonable. ThanksBig smile
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#659 - 2013-12-04 23:22:23 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Ish Eistiras wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Tom-A-Hawk wrote:
Bad and boring design, change those scanning and data bonuses, they're useless


Agreed make the ship an escort carrier designed to compliment the srat and astrios.

Currently the idea I like the most, unique flavor (potentially) in the BS range and a good "my first carrier" there are all ready mini dreads in the new mauraders, so a carrier lite would fit in.

So maybe something like this?

Nestor


Amarr BS bonus:
4% bonus to armor resists per level

Gallente BS bonus:

+1 active drone per level

Role Bonuses:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking speed and velocity
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
150% bonus to Remote Armor Repair range
50% bonus to Remote Armor Repair effectiveness

Slot Layout: 6H, 6M, 7L; 4 Turrets, 0 Launchers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
200mbit/sec//500m3

Has a ship maintenance bay about the size of 2 cruisers, maybe? Nothing big, but enough to fit a couple ships.

Just a quick idea.


Needs a little work but I totally like where you are going

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

J A Aloysiusz
Risk Breakers
SONS of BANE
#660 - 2013-12-04 23:26:54 UTC
If it's not getting the cloak, will it still have the ability to use jump bridges? It would couple nicely with the mass reduction...

I'm tired of seeing every new ship having a drone damage bonus (whether it be raw damage or projection). Perhaps a support ship like this one would be the perfect time to try out some other drone bonuses? Perhaps to the currently unusable logi drones?

Energy turrets and logi bonus without a energy turret capacitor reduction? Might as well give it another role bonus... "All energy neutralizers on grid are automatically activated on this hull"

But in all seriousness, it has a logi bonus, a resistance bonus, and a damage bonus. This is beyond overpowered for spider battleships. Let's hope it's too expensive for practical use in pvp...