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Brutix, Myrmidon or Talos
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Mate Bauer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-12-02 23:57:31 UTC
Hey guys,

I'll soon can buy my first battle cruiser, but I am not sure which one to buy.
I want to to do L2/3 missions, L4 missions with friends (they have better ships). I would like to try a tanky ship for close combat. Still I am new to the game, so unsure if this is a good way to do missions or not.

So, which ship should I buy? Brutix, Myrmidon or Talos.
Would you recommend close combat or rather is the dps lost for ranged combat acceptable?
I would of course need a fitting and would be very thankful for any suggestions.

I have already searched battle clinic and a little bit the web, but found no recent builds or I was unsure about them.

Thx for any help and suggestions. Lol
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-12-03 00:04:44 UTC
Myrm is the most versatie....and has the largest tank by a mile.
Brutix is has more tank but less DPS than Talos
Talos is glass cannon with a big thunk to it.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-12-03 00:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
Brutix with 200 or 250mm rails. Does about same DPS as Talos, far better ability to hit level 2 (3) rats. I love the Myrm, but drones are slow compared to instant rail damage. Has enough drone bay for 2 flights of lights. Also, it looks like a space mace of face smashing - which goes a long way in my book. ;)

EDIT: BCs fit in level 3's right?

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Deunan Tenephais
#4 - 2013-12-03 02:21:54 UTC
Firstly, missions are calibrated per ship class.
L1 are for frigates.destroyers
L2 are for cruisers.
L3 are for battlecruisers.
L4 are for battleships.
It's not an absolute but some missions have ship restrictions, so taking the exactly right ship size is better.

Secondly, in missions you often fight against dozens of ships at a time, so being in the middle of their fire is not advised unless you like to replace freshly destroyed ships.
That's why you'd better not use short range weapons, not even talking about the travel time to go at hitting distances, the bcruisers are slow compared to a frigate, and some npcs like to keep their distance on top of that.
That's also why you should avoid the talos, it simply has not enough tanking capacities to resist some times when you are warped directly in the middle of the npcs.

Basically, you can either go with the brutix for a full rail fit or with the myrm for a mixed turret/drones fit.
I will talk about the brutix as it is what I use, I don't know much about the myrm setup.
With the brutix you choose to concentrate on a sole railgun setup to maximize their damage at range, by using the strongest ammo adapted to the range :
-on high slots you must put the combination of railguns that give you the best dps output, it's as simple as that.
It is better to put (for example) 6 200mm rails than only 5 250mm if you don't have the fitting capacities to do so.
-on mid put either an afterburner or a micro warp drive depending on your fitting capacities and you ability to deal with the limits of your capacitor; the other slots should be fitted with tracking computers loaded with optimal range scripts and/or cap rechargers.
Note that you can unload the scripts if you need the tracking speed boost from the tracking computers; the scripts are not consumed by use, they do not deplete.
-on low put a repair unit, 2/3 mission specific hardeners and as many hybrid turrets damage enhancers you can.

With this setup you are able to snipe npcs by virtue of using high damage ammo at an unusual range, from antimatter at some 30 kilometers to thorium at near 60 kilometers.
Considering you do not have to get into firing range because you already are in it at warp out, you gain time by immediate application of dps, which allow you to farm missions faster as long as you do not loot and salvage, because the wrecks are many kilometers away.
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#5 - 2013-12-03 13:45:13 UTC
I would recommend the Myrmidon; it is the most versatile of the three. Being a drone boat, you have access to selective damage types, which can be very useful while missioning. Because of its heavy reliance on drones, you've got to have good drone skills; You should be able to field T2 Medium Scouts, and have drone support skills (Sharpshooting, Durability, Navigation, Combat Drone Op. Drone Interfacing) at least to Level 3.


Fit 1 - Passive Shield Brawler:


[Myrmidon, Mission Passive]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Phased Plasma M
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Valkyrie II x5


As the name notes, you brawl; you usually stay between 15-25KM from the enemies, and provide support fire while your drones hammer away at them.Your tank will take whatever they throw at you pretty easily.

With the minimum required skills, you should be able to pump out 250DPS; with proper gunnery and drone skills, you will do upwards of 340DPS. You will have 30K+ EHP, and a pretty solid tank of 200+ EHP/S; all of this will rise with mission specific hardeners, but basically, your tank will survive any L3 mission with ease. And, without the burner running constantly, you're cap stable.

Always watch your Medium Scouts; they're slow and clumsy, and prone to being aggroed in L3s. Carry spares of whatever drones you're using, and withdraw/deploy as required.



Fit 2: Active Armor

[Myrmidon, Mission Active Armour]

Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
720mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Fusion M
Drone Link Augmentor I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Bouncer I x4
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

Higher DPS fit, intended to stay well outside of target's firing range. Needs good scout drone skills. Basically, you warp in, blaze away from enemies while your scout drones cover you, stop at over 30KM out, drop sentries, and shoot. Run your tank as needed.

With the Myrm's drone bandwidth, you can field four sentries or heavies at a time. Depending on the drones used and your drone skills, you will do between 420DPS @30KM to 320DPS @ 50+KM (though at long ranges, you stop being able to hit stuff with your ship's cannons). Very hairy tank, though, so you've got to keep your distance. Is you're having a really hard time with the tank, drop a damage link in favour of an additional hardener. But if you kill quickly enough, there won't be enough time for enemies to really test your tank. Also helps you hone your sentry sniping skills, which will come in useful when piloting the Dominix. Keep in mind that your sentries will have a hard time hitting things that are closer than 20km (unless they're Battlecruiser sized or larger [which is unlikely in an L3, anyway]), so you've got to quickly switch to smaller drones. Also, you don't move around much once you're at range. You stay by your sentries and snipe; if you've got to move, withdraw your drones first. Sentries can't follow you home, unlike other drones.
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#6 - 2013-12-03 14:49:12 UTC
This is what you can aim for in a Myrmidon. It's an absolute beast, easily capable of running level 4 missions, tanks almost 600 DPS against Serpentis, does over 500 DPS.

It can be scaled to whatever skill level you have. The full T1 version is still easily capable of surviving level 3 missions, and will serve you well until you can reach this level.

If you find that you need a bit more powergrid, drop the 250's down to 200's. You won't lose much DPS, and will have better tracking. The 250's are there primarily for range.

It's cap stable with the AB off. Full T1 fit may require the loss of the target painter if you need more cap, but put the painter back on when you can - it helps with turret DPS, drone DPS, and managing aggro.

Note that it has absolutely no Drone enhancements. If you feel that you need some additional drone DPS, play around with it in EFT, and see what you're willing to trade off. This version was built with maximum survivability in mind.

Myrmidon, Active Armor Tank (Serpentis)

Rigs
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II

Lows
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Mids
10MN Afterburner II
Target Painter II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Highs
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II
250mm Railgun II

Drones
Hobgoblin II (x5)
Hammerhead II (x5)
Garde II (x4)
Mate Bauer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-12-03 17:28:32 UTC
thanks for all the replies, I think I am going with the build suggested from Meyr.

I actually like sniping, but I gues due to my "wrong" skilling, conentrated equally on guns and drones, I never made that much damage. So it was a little bit frustrating, but maybe this will work, after I skilled in the right direction.

So basically I want to get better drone skills? And how about changing one hardener to drone damage amplifier and another to reactive armor hardener? Or is it better to have 4 hardener like explained above?
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#8 - 2013-12-04 15:01:45 UTC
I haven't used a Reactive Hardener yet, so I'm not able to say how well it will work. That said, give it a try. 30% additional resistance to Kin/Therm damage AND frees up a low slot? Sounds good to me!

I, too, started out trying to train Gunnery & Drones, and it's a bit of a slog. Well worth it, in the end, though.

Suggestions (I'm assuming you can already launch 5 drones):

1. Gallente BC IV
2. Drone Support Skills ALL to IV
3. Sentry Drone Interfacing IV (you'll need it to V for T2's, but that can wait for a bit)
4. Gunnery Support Skills to IV
5. Engineering Skills to V
6. Electronics to V
7. Armor & Armor Repair to V (this is your biggest cap drain)
8. Armor Compensations to III
9. All of the Shield Skills to IV (TAC Shield Manipulation slows the damage bleed-through)
10. Weapon Upgrades V
11. Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV

You may want to respec for Int/Mem during this initial phase, or possibly just evenly distribute your Attribute Points (yes, even Charisma, as you'll want to train up the skills that improve your mission rewards!). Somewhere in this path, take the time to get Jury Rigging III, and Armor Rigging III.

Have fun! Don't be afraid to adapt anything I've written to better fit your own ideas.

Let us know how you do. Did you try a plain T1 version of this in EFT yet?
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#9 - 2013-12-04 15:09:03 UTC
As an end goal for this path, try playing around with an Eos in EFT.

Easily capable of tanking over 1000 DPS, with some very nice damage application bonuses. Long train, though!