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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#401 - 2013-12-04 07:40:36 UTC
SOE battleship. take a dash of chimera. a pinch of thanatos. throw in a heron. season with blops. there you go the perfect recipe for a 2bill subcap that works like a carrier :P

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#402 - 2013-12-04 07:48:34 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
After a second thought if it would get a 6th turret it would also become useful for incursion, as drones (sentry) or not that popular there. Besides, like I said, it currently has less dps that domi...

What about just making lasers it's primary weapon and drones secondary?

No.

No pirate ship has drones as its primary as of right now. Don't go trying to make CCP cater to a specific community.

The ship will turn out however it does, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I don't want this going the way of the Marauders.

On the contrary, I'd appreciate a ship with very few turrets, but perhaps a +1 to number of drones controlled per Gallente BS skill, and a 250 mbit/sec bandwidth- then it'd be the first purely true drone boat.

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#403 - 2013-12-04 07:59:19 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
idea.. remove turrets. make it like 6/6/8 or 5/7/8 or even 5/7/7

keep exploration bonuses.

give it blops like cloak but raise the speed% while cloaked to like 300m/s

100% bonus to drone dmg or +1 drone per level of galente BS

also shield/armor/energy transfer amount/range

and have it like a subcap Carrier with an exploration twist with a maint bay for holding the SOE frigate in (fitted)

also give it corp bay and refit ability. could be useful for wspace

and if all the above needs are met i guarantee it will be worth the 2bill price tag

ps. needs better scan res.

I quite like this idea- a real "drone boat" would be taken very well, and if it had the +1 bonus per Gallente BS and a 250 mbit/sec total bandwidth, it would surely be worth its predicted 2 billion ISK price tag.

Maybe Something like this:

Nestor

Slots: 6H, 7M, 7L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistance bonus per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
+1 drone contolled per level

Role Bonus:
50% bonus to drone optimal range, tracking and velocity
550% bonus to velocity while cloaked
50% bonus to scan strength of probes
+15 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Drone Bandwidth//Bay:
250mbit/sec//500m3

Cargo Capacity:
750m3

"A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#404 - 2013-12-04 08:01:32 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
After a second thought if it would get a 6th turret it would also become useful for incursion, as drones (sentry) or not that popular there. Besides, like I said, it currently has less dps that domi...

What about just making lasers it's primary weapon and drones secondary?

No.

No pirate ship has drones as its primary as of right now. Don't go trying to make CCP cater to a specific community.

The ship will turn out however it does, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but I don't want this going the way of the Marauders.

On the contrary, I'd appreciate a ship with very few turrets, but perhaps a +1 to number of drones controlled per Gallente BS skill, and a 250 mbit/sec bandwidth- then it'd be the first purely true drone boat.


Yes there is. It's called a Rattlesnake. Also Vindicator has 125 Mbit/sec but no bonuses. I don't fly incursions so I don't care that much for this community. However since marauders failed to be usefull for incursion this ship could... Anyway my point is that it needs a little more dps. A 6th unboused turred would do the job just fine.
Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#405 - 2013-12-04 08:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Joan Greywind
I'd just like to know what CCP developers intend for this ship to do? Is it a solo exploration boat to do the rare ghost sites? Is it for wh exploration? It seems it adds little to no value to PVP and currently the PVE meta is already saturated with ships you can use for it, especially with the new structure additions. I mean all the pve content could be done with stratioses or t3's solo, and for group pve there are much better options for a fraction of the price.

It is time to develop ships that add value to PVP.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#406 - 2013-12-04 08:23:57 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
On the contrary, I'd appreciate a ship with very few turrets, but perhaps a +1 to number of drones controlled per Gallente BS skill, and a 250 mbit/sec bandwidth- then it'd be the first purely true drone boat.

Yeah… no. If we're going to create sub cap escort carriers, they should be something entirely different.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
marVLs
#407 - 2013-12-04 08:29:04 UTC
Srly CCP last thing we need is another ship with same bonuses like 90% of eve hulls...

"bu bu bu but it's white BS" ... so what ffs, be creative, bring some new bonuses that matches uniques of SoE ships (don't need to be cov ops).

All that it seems to be like "we are afraid of something new so give it old bonuses, make another drone boat and move on". And all that useless (for BS class) bonuses like scanning and data/relic bonus it makes all of this even worse.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#408 - 2013-12-04 08:33:38 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
No pirate ship has drones as its primary as of right now.

What are the Worm, Gila, and Rattlesnake then?

(Or the Revenant for that matter, although that doesn't count).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#409 - 2013-12-04 08:37:09 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
After a second thought if it would get a 6th turret it would also become useful for incursion, as drones (sentry) or not that popular there. Besides, like I said, it currently has less dps that domi...

What about just making lasers it's primary weapon and drones secondary?

How can the Dominix have more damage if sentries are not to be considered, you need rails to compete with +50% pulses? Does the Dominix have the ability to tank for the guy beside him with same efficiency?

I for one am thrilled that CCP is trying 'new' things and not just making SoE into variations on the dps/tank theme, but had been downright ecstatic if they had gone all the way.
Cruiser and frigate has very capable output and can take a beating, when they started saying that the BS low weight was to make them extra worm capable I had expected them to be more group oriented, as in having a limited maintenance array or something.
Rammix
TheMurk
#410 - 2013-12-04 08:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Answer to this BS:
you were high on drugs when you came up with this BS idea. You ccp game designers do drugs often recently.

These 2 sentences above describe what you did recently and are doing - most accurately. So accurately that I don't even care if I'm gonna get banned.

OpenSUSE Leap 42.1, wine >1.9

Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2013-12-04 08:40:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
This should make it very popular in wormholes.
It's nice that it has lower mass, but that alone wont make it popular. What do you intend we do with it in here?

At its present form it can have role of either inferior overpriced dominix or inferior overpriced guardian.

(btw we were hoping the "medical bay" would finally allow us to swap clones in WHs, that would be a worthwhile role)

SSC Brokering Service
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#412 - 2013-12-04 08:49:40 UTC
Zomgnomnom wrote:
Why would anyone want to fly this?

I can get the scanning bonus from a cov ops for <50m
I can get the Drones PVP with a Domi for 10% of what the Nestor will cost.
In PVE I can get it out of the Rattlesnake for a 1/3 of the cost and my tank wont interfere with damage output.
I can't take it though a black ops as a logi ship as the Sisters theme would seem to lean towards to begin with. Even if I COULD do that the range on the reps is abysmal.

Even if I WANTED to use it to explore. It can't warp cloaked or run bubbles, its really just a loss mail waiting to happen moving about in low/null sec. For 1/5 the cost i can fit a T3 to cloak, run bubbles, do the scanning and hacking and not have a pretty much guaranteed loss mail.

You asked us which way we would like to see the ship lean.
May I re direct the question back to you and ask what is it exactly YOU had in mind.

I get the lasers and drones as being part of the theme of long deployments. It also fits with the other ships in the series. Doesn't it make far more sense both LORE wise and practicality wise to have the Ship be a faction Black Ops battleship? It would Fit the theme of exploration by bridging the Astero and Stratios cruisers into deep space or QUICKLY slinging them to a disaster site to render Aid. It would go along with the "Shuttle bay" part on the picture. Remove the laser bonus, give a logistics bonus and limit it's damage to a flight of drones for self defense.

Lets think about this along the lines of how the different factions ships are built to support one another. The Astero is a small nimble scouting ship. The Stratios is a flexible cruiser for exploration and DPS when you need some attack power. The Nestor is a relief vessel that specializes in getting the other craft to hot spots and disaster sites quickly and uses its hospital and shuttle bays etc to do it's whole humanitarian thing.

Its supposed to be delivering sacrifices to the Jove. Shouldn't it, yah know, deliver/send something somewhere :P

The great thing is with a few small tweaks you can make just about everyone happy.

The low mass and logi bonus's will still be useful to the worm hole folks, the PvP inclined will finally get the Battle Ship class /Blops capable logi ship they have been asking for for years. The PVE folks will get an armor tanked Rattlesnake for use in areas where the shields native resists are weak.

Drop the scan bonus. Give Logi Range bonus
Drop hacking. Give Blops


This is one of the most well thought out ideas in this thread. Had to say it :)

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2013-12-04 08:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Although this look like a lot of fun and will probably be very sexy I find the continuity of this ship line breaks with the Nestor.

Personally I would have preferred a BLOPs style battleship.

Remove the scanning and hacking bonuses.
Why?
This should be more of a support ship. Not the all in one. Also, providing a BS to do the ghosts sites where the explosions are the real danger to loosing your ship removes that danger (due to BS EHP). Is this not AGAINST that idea? This should not be a hacking ship for that reason.

Give this ship the ability to Covert Ops Portal so that is could bridge in the Frigates and Cruisers. Give the Astero (BUT NOT THE STRATIOS) the ability to use a Cov Ops Cyno and then these ships can work together.

I also think a remote repair BS may be a bit too redicudonkulous. Consider making this just a BLOPs bridging damage support platform (maybe with a clone vat bay. Why not eh?) with standard BLOPs cloaking bonuses.

Then create a battlecruiser platform (perhaps with the ability to fit unbonused fleet boosters, 3 of them - armour and skirmish) with remote repair abilities with BLOPs style cloaking.

The Remote Repair Range Issue
I think all remote reps (and remote energy transfers) need to have their range doubled and the hull bonuses halved. This would solve many issues and open up some new ways to use these modules.

Also..... HOW MUCH??!!!
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2013-12-04 09:19:42 UTC
I see the marauder discussion happening all over again (so expect this thread to be 300 pages long Big smile)

The problem, as with marauders, is that the ship has no clear role defined by its designers. Therefore most suggestion on this forum concern defining the role of the ship and not how to improve it.

So CCP Rise please state what this ship should be used for?

1) Exploration Ship: give it covert ops cloak.

Covert Cloak BS is stupid idea, exploration BS is stupid idea, 1 bil exploration ship is a stupid idea. DON'T DO THIS Evil.

2) Standard pirate BS for dps: remove scanning and hacking bonuses altogether, add turret dps bonus or more turrets. Shift one mid slot to low. You can keep the rr bonus, but don’t give it range bonus so it will not be abused by blobs (limiting its use to PvE or small scale PvP).

That’s my personal favorite. Make it a pirate BS that is scary. With medium dps, but high tank and limited rr capability.

3) Logistic BS: replace laser optimal with rr 200 % optimal bonus, remove scanning and hacking bonuses altogether, add capacitor bonuses (amount and regeneration), keep slot layout (it will need cap recharge mods).

This is also good, but could make logi ships useless in some case. Would be in line with SoE storyline, but seriously who makes a battleship for peaceful proposes?
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2013-12-04 09:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: The Spod
THE USE FOR A SOE BATTLESHIP OVER DOMINIX:

For exploration purposes the SOE battleship needs some type of powerful escape mechanism that enables it to bypass gatecamps. The way it is done in current iteration is the same way it works on a Dominix:

1) Mobile depot allows travel fit
2) Travel fit contains MJD, inertia stabs to counter bumping, cloak, neuts/smartbombs and a warp stab.
3) When landing on gatecamp, you align - MJD - spam warp. The only way to stop it is warp scram or to nuke it with bumps before it MJD's to warp.

THE ABOVE SHOULD BE IMPROVED ON THE SOE BATTLESHIP OVER A DOMINIX. This would make it useful for the purpose of running nullsec combat sites, which are nowadays steamrolled in MJD sniping cheap dominixes or marauders which bastion face tank it. Being able to run without scout with less risk (but risk nevertheless) would be the separating factor to me. As it is now, I pick a similiarly priced marauder to roflstomp the sites, or a cheap dominix, much preferably to this SOE battleship iteration.

How to improve nullsec travel security on the SOE battleship?
- MJD warp scram immunity special?
- INSTANT MJD to have a good chance of getting out of bubblecamps, my favorite
- Bubble immunity? Not really a factor with MJD, and prehaps too foreign.
- Faster align
- Better way to counter warp scram, e.g. ability to launch more ECM/light drones (with 125 band); like the guardian vexor
- Faster MJD cycle
- Warp strenght bonus
- blops jump
- blops cloak

I think these and better options should be discussed to make SOE battleship at least more appealing than marauders for running solo nullsec combat sites.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2013-12-04 09:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


Hey Rise,

I do not like the idea to keep the exploration theme on a big hull that cannot cloak.

So please either make it an exploration ship that can move about sneakily with covert ops cloak and be self sufficient being able to find and finish e.g. 6/10 by itself just like the Stratios with at least double dps or make it a real support ship without any exploration boni at all. Instead, a bonus to sensor booster, tracking links and energy transfer amount.

Also the Rep is already more than enough. Instead of the rep bonus I would like to see the range bonus. But then again if that range bonus is not good enough for at least 50 km range with large RR, then I'd rather stick with the short range and have the rep bonus.
I'd like such a range because being able to support other more nimble ships with reps further out makes the hull different from just a better RR fitted Domi (which I would then prefer for its lower price - since it would be needed in most PVE scenarios that I know of. I am not sure if it's too OP in PVP situations though.

Shortversion: Real support BS or real exploration BS.
edit: And make it 9 targets please.

On a sidenote:
Did someone fool me there or did you actualy talk about a medical clone facility and shuttle bay on this ship?

.
Hanazava Karyna
The Foundation Of Mammon
#417 - 2013-12-04 09:50:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Hanazava Karyna
Beside everyone said to this moment please put Logistic skill bonuses on this ship, it would make incursion runners happy

(I'm wondering how BS will do as a logi despite it's enormous signature)

Quote:
Shortversion: Real support BS or real exploration BS.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#418 - 2013-12-04 10:06:56 UTC
Sorry if this has been clarified already, but the frig and cruiser are both covops ships that can be bridged.

Can the SOE BS fit a bridge and jump/be bridged?

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#419 - 2013-12-04 10:14:19 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
but instead of cloaking it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, the Nestor (as designed currently) has incredibly low mass - around half the mass of a normal Battleship. This should make it very popular in wormholes.
Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote repair amount
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
50% increased strength for scan probes
+10 virus strength for relic and data analyzers

Slot layout: 7H, 6M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 9950 / 9900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700




I'm gonna go ahead and play something of devil's advocate here:

I agree with many of the sentiments that this thing is just kinda all over the place with no real focus for it's bonuses. So, here is a proposed bonus list based on that theme of aid and relief:



Quote:
NESTOR II: The Sisters Disaster Relief Vessel

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
5% drone damage and hitpoints per level
5% bonus to drone repair amount per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote repair and remote shield transfer range
50% reduction in capacitor need for Remote repair and remote shield transfer
50% increased Range for remote capacitor transfers
50% bonus to salvager range

Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 8L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10050 / 9500 (Shifted some hull into Armor to follow Amarr ships)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 101 / .18 / 70000000 / 11.97 (Added some mass for the ship maintenance bay/fleet hangar
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700

ADDITION:

Fleet hangar: 10000m3
Ship maintenance bay: 300000m3




Or conversely, make it's bonuses focus around something else. If you're wanting a scanning BS, then focus it on scanning. But a pinch of this and a pinch of that is not the right idea. Most of us are just here like...... wha?


Quote:
Quote:
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
On the contrary, I'd appreciate a ship with very few turrets, but perhaps a +1 to number of drones controlled per Gallente BS skill, and a 250 mbit/sec bandwidth- then it'd be the first purely true drone boat.


Yeah… no. If we're going to create sub cap escort carriers, they should be something entirely different



The above being said, why NOT build escort carriers and release them with this?



OR:



Go with the theme of Heavy Relief. Sisters have some decent multi-role/skirmish ships in the Astero and Stratios, but for reaching hostile disaster zones, they need something that can take and give.

Quote:
NESTOR: The PeaceKeeper

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
25% Energy turret Damage
50% bonus to large energy turret optimal range
10% Reduced Capacitor need for energy turrets

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 11250 PWG, 680 CPU(Adjust as needed)
Defense (shields / armor / hull): 8900 / 10550 / 9000
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6200 / 1044 / 5.9
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 92 / .18 / 56000000 / 13.97
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 400
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 24 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 465
Cargo Capacity: 700




Basically... pick a direction and go with it. All these random pick and choose bonus for this, and that, and that too make for a really confusing ship.




Though Personally I'd like to see it configurable, with the ability to use bastion... but ya know. I can't get everything I want lol.
I mean, there are a million ways you could go with this, but pick one and go. Oh, and ESCORT CARRIERS!! :P

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=108615

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Setsune Rin
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#420 - 2013-12-04 10:16:50 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


definetly an AND

range without amount is trivial (it doesn't get a cap bonus so its got that counting against it already)
and amount without range means you lose way to much maneuverability to spidertank such a fast ship


and overall it has to fit a role somewhere, spidertanking two of these puppies might get you somewhere

but the scanning bonuses and analyzing bonuses are silly, you wouldn't go scan around unfamiliar space in an uncloaked 1b+ battleship

or at least you shouldn't

and then cap, its got the mids going for it so for micro gang pvp it can boost
but in extended battles running large reps is going to be brutal, maybe with a-type mediums it can run a decently stable setup with respectable repping
but it still needs that range to work


but then why would you pick it? a domi+guardian setup can outshine this quite easily even in small gang


i would honestly tone it down a bit on the repping bonus, give it a range bonus alongside plus knock 25 off the bandwith and give it a covert cloak

then you finally have half decent blackops with logi so you don't need to drop carriers with blackops so much




right now its just an expensive PVE brick, this has no place in a propper fleet