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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Author
Yaaar's Revenge
Criterion.
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#201 - 2013-12-03 22:12:08 UTC
This ship sounds awesome - really can't wait for it. But I see a bit of a problem with it....

I understand the idea of not giving it a Covert Ops Cloak, as this would be a little bit ridiculous, but giving it an exploration bonus gives the impression that it is going to be useful working with the other 2 SoE ships in some way (Stratios and Nestor dualboxing ftw) but because they are designed for extended deployments, this indicates WH or nullsec. If the Nestor cannot cloak well, then it's just going to get trapped and ganked like any other BS you try to bring to do exploration.

So as alternatives, what if we give the Nestor the ability to work in a similar fashion to a Black Ops. So it can fit normal cloaks like any other ship, but it has a small jumpdrive, which can allow a Stratios or covops to essentially "pilot" it through nullsec to sites where its bonuses can be used. The jumpdrive doesn't need to be long - it could even only be a couple of jumps (maybe even just 1 or 2) but that would let careful players be able to move it around to function most effectively.

Purely speaking, if it is going to be an exploration ship it should be able to get to where it's exploring. It can still get murdered if used stupidly, or if you try and bring it through a gate. But if you use it smart it would be an invaluable tool for exploration. I'm considering using a Blops myself as a trailer for my exploration efforts. Just because it can have a stupid cargobay and generally follow a T3 or covops without issue.

TL:DR Nestor should have a mini jumpdrive that can lock onto covert cynos

Follow me on Twitter @Yaaars_Revenge

Ish Eistiras
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#202 - 2013-12-03 22:12:18 UTC
How about adding is some very different drone bonuses?

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% armor resistances per level
10% bonus to Heavy drone velocity and tracking per level

Gallente Battleship Bonus:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level
10% remote rep amount per level

Role bonuses:
+50% heavy drone damage
-50% heavy drone signature radius
+100% remote repair optimal range

Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 7L,
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 600

No turrents and no launcher slots, this will be a totally utility high based ship. Basicly a carrier with its primary focus on heavy drone dps (not sentry).
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#203 - 2013-12-03 22:12:43 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Food for thought CCP Rise:

Remember all the whiners in the Stratios thread? The EFT warriors with impossible fits?

Where are those uber ganking monsters that everyone was afraid of? That's right, nowhere to be seen.

The Strat got nerf'd over nothing. I guess un-nerfing is out of the question, but please don;t listen to the whiners this time.


i personally feel it needs a buff, like +1 low so 7/6/7 or something or 7/6/8 so it has a defined tank. and with the way drones and drone aggro is atm the drones will be moderatly useless i feel.
the lazors will need dmg or/and cap use bonus.
also needs drone speed bonus not just hp and dmg, for better application of dps from heavys.
scan res needs to be higher.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#204 - 2013-12-03 22:14:44 UTC
Yaaar's Revenge wrote:
This ship sounds awesome - really can't wait for it. But I see a bit of a problem with it....

I understand the idea of not giving it a Covert Ops Cloak, as this would be a little bit ridiculous, but giving it an exploration bonus gives the impression that it is going to be useful working with the other 2 SoE ships in some way (Stratios and Nestor dualboxing ftw) but because they are designed for extended deployments, this indicates WH or nullsec. If the Nestor cannot cloak well, then it's just going to get trapped and ganked like any other BS you try to bring to do exploration.

So as alternatives, what if we give the Nestor the ability to work in a similar fashion to a Black Ops. So it can fit normal cloaks like any other ship, but it has a small jumpdrive, which can allow a Stratios or covops to essentially "pilot" it through nullsec to sites where its bonuses can be used. The jumpdrive doesn't need to be long - it could even only be a couple of jumps (maybe even just 1 or 2) but that would let careful players be able to move it around to function most effectively.

Purely speaking, if it is going to be an exploration ship it should be able to get to where it's exploring. It can still get murdered if used stupidly, or if you try and bring it through a gate. But if you use it smart it would be an invaluable tool for exploration. I'm considering using a Blops myself as a trailer for my exploration efforts. Just because it can have a stupid cargobay and generally follow a T3 or covops without issue.

TL:DR Nestor should have a mini jumpdrive that can lock onto covert cynos


it wont be any good in c3+ as drones get alphaed too easly.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
#205 - 2013-12-03 22:15:43 UTC
MinutemanKirk wrote:
If it's supposed to be an "aid" ship I don't see how giving it a turret bonus fits that role....
I'd suggest swapping it for the Remote Repair Range Bonus mentioned in previous posts.


imo, this makes the most sense for an aid type ship. can't say i even thought of filling the highs with turrets given the rep bonus.
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2013-12-03 22:16:01 UTC
Reaperxvii wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Note: This is what CCP should have released

I am very relieved to finally show you the cooler Sisters of EVE Logistics Marauder Battleship, the Nestor.

We believed that keeping the covert cloak theme was not going to work for the battleship initially but we've changed our minds. We began to really understand that there is a need for logistics in Eve outside of logistic cruisers and carriers. We are expanding that feel towards a battleship capable logistics vessel. This ship has some massive teeth to it. The Nestor can now fit a covert ops cloaking device, and is now capable of jumping along with gangs of black-ops battleships and T3's. In addition, the ship's covert ops bonus now permits a great deal of logistics to be fielded through the use of black-ops. Please note, that while this ship can jump through a black-ops bridge, it itself is not capable of creating those bridges. That ability is still ship specific to the black ops battleships.

We are getting rid of the exploration feel of the Nestor and removing the previous hacking and probing bonuses and it will receive a bonus to remote armor repair amount, drawing on the Sisters of EVE themes of aid and relief. On top of that, we are increasing the remote repair range by a huge amount. We are also giving it the mobility potential by adding a micro jump drive bonus (it can get onto the field and remove itself from the field as needed). As this ship will most definitely become primary in every combat scenario, we are going to overload its capabilities by extending the Bastion Module to it. We fear we may have completely overpowered this ship as it would essentially become the first ever Faction Black Ops Cloaking Logistic's Marauder ever. This thing can truly defend itself.

Here's the details:

NESTOR

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% drone damage and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote repair amount
350% bonus to remote repair range
100% reduction in CPU requirements for cloaks
70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay

Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Devices.
Can fit Bastion Module.


I'm sorry that would break the game.
Make it be a faction blackops like the sin, 500% bonus to speed while cloaked, and with the RR bonus. (just range).
Give it the ability to jump and create/use bridges.
Tweek the slot layout so its 5 mids and 7 lows.
Remove the Virus bonus thats kinda dumb. (which you've already done)
and maybe like a small ship maintenance bay since it seems they want it to be a pocket carrier. they also mentioned a medical bay in the first picture but haven't mentioned it here.


If you give this ship the ability to create jump bridges, there is literally no point to it and you deligate this ship to solely being a bridging ship. You remove its actual uses from the game. I would love this ship to have the capability of utilizing a black ops bridge, but I would NOT give it the ability to create a bridge itself (aka, it can jump a bridge, it cannot create one). I was pretty clear in my above post about that.

In otherwords (to be crystal clear), NO to creating bridges.

The slot layout is fine

Adding in sma's and medical bays would be neat, but it is not needed, nor should it be the purpose of this ship. There are enough ways to refit a ship in space at the moment. I would personally like this ship to be more of a logistics spacepriest, than a glorified floating cloaking sma. I'd like to see it in combat, and not relegated to making bridges and refitting ships. Just my opinion though. We have larger ships with the capability, and now deployable modules that can do ship refitting also.

Yaay!!!!

Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#207 - 2013-12-03 22:16:42 UTC
i can only see this being useful for nullsec ghost sites, drones for spreading aggro after your buffer gets blammed. nothing more.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2013-12-03 22:19:04 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
i can only see this being useful for nullsec ghost sites, drones for spreading aggro after your buffer gets blammed. nothing more.

You've never run ghost sites then.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2013-12-03 22:19:26 UTC
Yaaar's Revenge wrote:
This ship sounds awesome - really can't wait for it. But I see a bit of a problem with it....

I understand the idea of not giving it a Covert Ops Cloak, as this would be a little bit ridiculous, but giving it an exploration bonus gives the impression that it is going to be useful working with the other 2 SoE ships in some way (Stratios and Nestor dualboxing ftw) but because they are designed for extended deployments, this indicates WH or nullsec. If the Nestor cannot cloak well, then it's just going to get trapped and ganked like any other BS you try to bring to do exploration.

So as alternatives, what if we give the Nestor the ability to work in a similar fashion to a Black Ops. So it can fit normal cloaks like any other ship, but it has a small jumpdrive, which can allow a Stratios or covops to essentially "pilot" it through nullsec to sites where its bonuses can be used. The jumpdrive doesn't need to be long - it could even only be a couple of jumps (maybe even just 1 or 2) but that would let careful players be able to move it around to function most effectively.

Purely speaking, if it is going to be an exploration ship it should be able to get to where it's exploring. It can still get murdered if used stupidly, or if you try and bring it through a gate. But if you use it smart it would be an invaluable tool for exploration. I'm considering using a Blops myself as a trailer for my exploration efforts. Just because it can have a stupid cargobay and generally follow a T3 or covops without issue.

TL:DR Nestor should have a mini jumpdrive that can lock onto covert cynos



Its an idea but giving this ship a jump drive pretty much relegates it to two primary uses.

1) Alt sitter in space. Log it in, turn on drive, jump few ships, log it off.

2) Lack to 0 combat capabilities. Nobody will throw this ship in combat because its more valuable as a black ops portal maker.

The value of the ship needs to be on the field of combat, not several jumps away on some alt for the purpose of bridging in ships. We already have ships set to do that.

Yaay!!!!

Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#210 - 2013-12-03 22:22:33 UTC
it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#211 - 2013-12-03 22:24:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
i can only see this being useful for nullsec ghost sites, drones for spreading aggro after your buffer gets blammed. nothing more.

You've never run ghost sites then.

they have large aoe dmg when the timer on warpin runs out. so soon as your hit with the aoe, drop the drones

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Rena Senn
Halal Gunnery
Death by Degrees
#212 - 2013-12-03 22:24:43 UTC
Feels a bit bland to be honest. The scanning and hacking bonuses don't make much sense to me since I doubt people will often using a 1.4b+ base hull non cov-ops capable battleship as their main prober or explorer when many other cheaper and more mobile role bonused cloaky ships can do it just as well and with far less risk. The low mass is interesting but offers little advantage to sentry deployment, and its 6 lows means it's actually worse at mixing an armor tank and drone damage mods than an armageddon, which just seems wrong. Throw in the lack of an RR range bonus on top of that and it's looking to be a vastly overpriced curio addition to an already crowded field of 125 bandwidth drone battleships. It's lack of cyno jumping ability or other new gameplay mechanics means it'll probably be limited to act as a middle of the road wormhole brawler/logi combo for smaller corps who can't regularly scrounge up the numbers for guardian support, which seems way too niche a role to justify the development time that must have gone into this thing.

TL;DR I hope CCP goes for something more daring.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#213 - 2013-12-03 22:25:44 UTC
Berluth Luthian wrote:
Also, gift for incursion runners?

itll be bad for incursions.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#214 - 2013-12-03 22:26:14 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset.

I think it -could- be, I think part of the problem is that everyone is assuming different things though. It's supposed to be an exploration ship, it's supposed to be a group pve ship, it's supposed to be a pvp ship, it's supposed to be a mini-carrier! Nobody really knows because the bonuses and roles given make it half-arse at doing 2-3 things instead of one thing really good.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#215 - 2013-12-03 22:27:10 UTC
Please go back to the drawing board. This is just plain incoherent and awful.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Epiphany Achura
Federation Clone Services LTD.
#216 - 2013-12-03 22:27:27 UTC
CCP Rise,

a couple of things:

I agree with those who are saying it needs a Rep range bonus. I also like the idea that someone had posted suggesting a range buff to the entire line of modules.

With respect to no Cov op, while I agree I was considering how it might work if you allowed the ship to have one but imposed a cloaking "time penalty" where there is a delay between activating the cloak and the module being able to cloak the entire battleship leaving te ship vulnerable during this short window (no mods activated), say 3-5 seconds. Not sure what if anything that would do but it seems logical thy a specialized cloaking device might struggle with instantly cloaking a BS sized object.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
#217 - 2013-12-03 22:33:41 UTC
Might want to look at 7H, 5M, 7L. And again I don't see a real reason for the repairer, might be better to get it a velocity while cloaked bonus, kind of like the one blackops get
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#218 - 2013-12-03 22:33:52 UTC
Rena Senn wrote:
Feels a bit bland to be honest. The scanning and hacking bonuses don't make much sense to me since I doubt people will often using a 1.4b+ base hull non cov-ops capable battleship as their main prober or explorer when many other cheaper and more mobile role bonused cloaky ships can do it just as well and with far less risk. The low mass is interesting but offers little advantage to sentry deployment, and its 6 lows means it's actually worse at mixing an armor tank and drone damage mods than an armageddon, which just seems wrong. Throw in the lack of an RR range bonus on top of that and it's looking to be a vastly overpriced curio addition to an already crowded field of 125 bandwidth drone battleships. It's lack of cyno jumping ability or other new gameplay mechanics means it'll probably be limited to act as a middle of the road wormhole brawler/logi combo for smaller corps who can't regularly scrounge up the numbers for guardian support, which seems way too niche a role to justify the development time that must have gone into this thing.

TL;DR I hope CCP goes for something more daring.



Agreed, given what the price tag will be I cannot think of a single use for this ship that can't be done better by Domi/Navy Domi/Ishtar or a T3. Fail, try again CCP
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#219 - 2013-12-03 22:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Seranova Farreach wrote:
it seems to me that the more i read the more people are thinking of the nestor as a pvp ship and spouting responces in a pvp mindset.


We all want a ship that someone will actually consider taking out in combat. The life of Eve is PVP. The money in Eve is from PVE.

The PVE is boring, but currently the only use of this ship is for PVE purposes, and mostly nobody would bother risking it in those PVE purposes.

It needs a role and an identity. Outside of my idea it needs to have a reason to bring in combat. Billion isk sentry boat.. we have that already at 1/10 of the pricetag. both PVP and PVE iterations.

Why bring this ship? So yes alot of us are asking for a PVP capable ship that is worth it for people to actually bring.

There is a huge jump currently when it comes to logistic ships (remote repairing ships). It goes from Cruiser, to Carrier, with the Dominix thrown somewhere in the middle (call it the fake logi ship). Currently there is 0 truly capable repairing battleships out there that could be credibly fielded. This ship has the potential to be the first. The capability of being on the field repairing wayward ships, while not being completely alpha'd off the field in 1 go? A logistics ship with a battleship tank, and the mobility to be useful. Not a bad ship setup.

CCP basically threw us three ships with the Nestor and they are asking us... which would you want?

A) A logistics ship
B) A exploration ship
C) A combat ship.

You can have one or two options, but not all three.

Personally, I'd prefer a logistics battleship because we do not have one. We have lots of combat battleships, but realistically 0 logistics battleships.

This could open up new and good potential game play if the ship is good enough to warrant the price tag. Being a logistics ship, you can play with the ship's spec's more than you can with a pure combat vessel.

As a logistics battleship, it won't replace the logistics cruisers, can sit on the field MUCH longer than the logistics cruisers due to its tank, can actually participate in DPS in degrees due to drones, can potentially repair more burst damage than the logistics cruisers as the battleship repairs 50% MORE, but does not encroach on the capital ships repair amounts.

What people want is a ship that they can take into combat. A logistics ship that can "hang" in a medium to large battle, can "hold the field", can "jump a stargate without a cyno".....

Yes this ships primary role should be logistics. Aka, a spacepriest that is good enough to take out into the field because it'll be worth it to keep the gang up.

Yaay!!!!

Circumstantial Evidence
#220 - 2013-12-03 22:38:19 UTC
That shuttle bay!
Give it a special ship hanger, able to carry one fully fit Astero Big smile