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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-12-03 17:49:01 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


Data sites in wormholes don't explode and nearly (or successfully) one-shot your cruiser.

Ghost sites, on the other hand...

The analysis ability is obviously designed so you can effectively run null/WH ghost sites with the benefit of battleship EHP to handle the massive explosion.


Alright, but I thought the general idea was to avoid the explosion, not sit there and try to eat it in your billion isk faction battleship...
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#62 - 2013-12-03 17:50:37 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


Counter-question: Do you intend this to be used with medium-sized ships, or mostly in RRBS gangs?

Given a range bonus, especially a range + amount bonus, we will turn this thing into the BS-sized faction UberGuardian. That sounds pretty awesome to me and would definitely have more PvP utility, but I'm not sure it's the ship you want to make.

As it is now, I think it'll be a super popular AT ship, you could make fun RRBS gangs using a couple of these or these plus domis, and if they were not ridiculously priced I could see finding some uses for one during a W-space POS siege (where we have occasionally used logi domis to supplement guardians), but as a W-space resident this isn't going to be useful to me most of the time.

And yes, the low mass means that it's very bump-vulnerable. That's already a relevant counter to RRBS gangs (which are rarely used these days anyways), and this would be no different, and would help balance it in that context given its rep bonus.
Amera Khan
Regiment Of Naga Association
OnlyFleets.
#63 - 2013-12-03 17:51:19 UTC
It definitely needs some sort of range bonus to remote reps to make the amount bonus worth while.It doesnt need to have the range of the current logi but somewhere in the middle would be good.
Danny John-Peter
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#64 - 2013-12-03 17:53:51 UTC
+1ing a range bonus, RR are already pretty effective especially when combined with good resist fit ships and force multipliers, so a range bonus would be far more useful than an amount bonus.
Jason Dunham
Andvaranaut Conglomerate
#65 - 2013-12-03 17:54:57 UTC
Personally I like it just the way it is, I think changes might make it too overpowered.

Currently it will have a good amount of local ehp, the remote rep bonus matches the way a lot of ratters fit their ships (fit this way it would have a buffer tank and drone upgrades, along with the probes and analyzer/hacker and use sentries, it could use it's remote repair to fix drones, or spider tank in a fleet)

For pvp, I see the capability of a laser boat with drones, you could drop sentries and use the reduced mass to charge around the battlefield doing close range damage with lasers. I agree, the remote rep range in pvp would be a little problematic given the power of range on the battlefield, but there's supposed to be meaningful choices, and making this ship good at everything prevents those from occurring. If it reps more than a logi, then it has a reason to choose it as a logi, but it's range will limit that choice, perhaps to setups like domis that can stay close together, but then it's vulnerable to bombing.

All in all, I like the ship as it is bonus wise, I fell like it promotes meaningful choices. I do agree that given the price and set of bonuses it will primarily be used as a PVE ship, but I look forward to seeing it used creatively in pvp as well.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#66 - 2013-12-03 17:55:14 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


Data sites in wormholes don't explode and nearly (or successfully) one-shot your cruiser.

Ghost sites, on the other hand...

The analysis ability is obviously designed so you can effectively run null/WH ghost sites with the benefit of battleship EHP to handle the massive explosion.


Alright, but I thought the general idea was to avoid the explosion, not sit there and try to eat it in your billion isk faction battleship...



If you fail a hack, boom.

If you disconnect for any reason it counts as a failed hack. Boom.

If you take too long during a hack or hang around in the site too long, bigger boom.

It's something that, if triggered, you can't avoid.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#67 - 2013-12-03 17:56:57 UTC
Lets see. We have...

Amarr, Neut Sentry/Heavy Drone Boat, (Armor)
Gallente, (Dominix and Navy Issue) Hybrid Gun Sentry/Sentry Boat (Armor)
Pirate, Missile Sentry Boat (Shield)
Sisters, Laser, Sentry Boat (armor), potential logistics ship (remote armor repper).

I'm not sure who would bother to bring this out vs a posprey, onieros, etc. Expensive ship to fit as a field medic.

I'd... consider relooking at it a little. I don't see an actual use in pvp, except that everybody and there mother will come racing out to get on the killmail.

It will kill tackle, at least thats one good thing about it.

Come to think of it. Here are some uses.

1) Incursions. Now all armor, with several of these ships to repair the field, as they can be mega tanked to absorb alpha that some logistics ships would have issues taking. All oneiros and guardian ships now replaced with sister medic ships. Oneiros prices plummit to 0. Gallente Logistic pilots cry. Ship reduced to lolneroses.

2) Mission Runner. Micro jump, snipe at 100. Dead everything.

.... thats about it. I think the incursion community will be very happy with this ship (a battleship based medic boat).

Yaay!!!!
Dibblerette
Solitude-Industries
#68 - 2013-12-03 17:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dibblerette
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


To me, the rep amount bonus was always a Minmatar carrier thing, so putting it here seems a little strange. I think most of us would rather have the range than amount, just because the base range on those modules is so damn short. An idea out of left field would be to let the Nestor fit a single capital repper, with a role bonus for the PG needs. That has a base range of 15k (16.5 meta version) and would be a very interesting addition. It really does scream "mini-carrier" though.

EDIT: To actually address your question, I think that the range needs SOME help for PVP. Battleships aren't great at staying in scram range if something goes wrong, and these will already be juicy targets for bombers and whatnot.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-12-03 17:59:10 UTC
dat slowkitten
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-12-03 18:00:24 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
If you fail a hack, boom.

If you disconnect for any reason it counts as a failed hack. Boom.

If you take too long during a hack or hang around in the site too long, bigger boom.

It's something that, if triggered, you can't avoid.


Funny... all the more reason to do it in a procuror?
Zircon Dasher
#71 - 2013-12-03 18:02:17 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.


I just want to know what the time constraints are to get this nerfed WITHOUT anyone having a chance to try it out. P

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#72 - 2013-12-03 18:03:40 UTC
mm... its agility seems a little poor compared to other faction ships..

mach
0.084

Nestor
0.18

so swap some mass for agility instead

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#73 - 2013-12-03 18:08:13 UTC

With 56m kg mass, how fast will this thing be traveling under AB/MWD's? In many ways, won't this be like putting an oversized prop mod on a BC?

As for the range of RR. One of the biggest hinderances to the RR subsystem of t3's, and RR BS gangs, is the very limited range of RR modules in general. 6-9 km's is a very confining range of operation, and I honestly think the base stats of these modules should be increased, rather than implementing a range bonus on these ships. (Note: This also means that RR ship hulls would need a slight adjustment to maintain their current ranges, which are pretty spot on).

Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-12-03 18:10:13 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
We can certainly discuss this amount vs range thing. Can you guys help me out saying specifically in relation to it:

Do you feel you need added range to be able to run PVE content, or just to PVP, or both?
Are you asking for bonus to amount AND bonus to range or bonus to range INSTEAD of amount?

Not sure when it gets to sisi but there will be plenty of time before release to play with it.

The closer they have to be to do remote repair, the more likely they are to be mass bombed.
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-12-03 18:10:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
The RR range is way too small and virus strength on a BS is a waste of a bonus IMO.

Drop the virus bonus and give it the same MJD bonus that marauders get and you're good.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#76 - 2013-12-03 18:11:44 UTC
This entire line of ships is really boring.
Glasgow Dunlop
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2013-12-03 18:12:57 UTC
remove the remote repair, add covert cloak option for cloaking lvl 5

WIN!

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!

Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser
Jita Intern
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-12-03 18:14:21 UTC
Sooo just get rid of remote reps, and add the cov ops cloak ability. Could up the virus strength to be even with Tech 3 cruisers or cov ops frigs.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#79 - 2013-12-03 18:14:28 UTC
Leave the virus bonus. It doesn't need a MJD bonus with that super-low mass, either.
StahlWaffe
Doomheim
#80 - 2013-12-03 18:16:03 UTC
[Nestor, Incursions?]
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
[empty med slot]

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II


Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I




The repping range is ****, of course. 8.4km only.
However, it's *SIX* Large Remote Reps we're talking about here. While having ~100k EHP. And ~450 Scanres in fleet.
And having 550 DPS from Gardes. And having 3 more flights in cargohold.
It's not stable, ... but 3 reps are.


Then again, i have no idea of incursions so far. So i don't know if that range is sufficient. Or if Armor fleets are ever going to be viable.