EVE General Discussion

Posting using one of my mains. Old BoB industrialist here.

I won't say I was high up in the chain (because I wasn't)
I won't say I was made rich by null sec (I wasn't)
I won't say I lost a lot (I lost maybe 200-300mil worth of ships across 2 accounts in my entire stay in 0.0) (if that)

What I did do was run one of the last major chains in t2 production. To the tune of filling 3 NPC factory stations full bore worth of t2 comps for 24/7 every month and still not having enough slots. I saw none of that revenue.

What I will say is that I did make all of money by doing one activity and one activity only, belt rat killing.

Seriously, I based out of PR-8 (think thats the name) and ran a few systems up and down that pipe around the NOL-M9 area.
I didn't play every day and I didn't play for hours a day.

But what I can say is that I did so in a raven with an alt that looted and near the end salvaged as well (blood raider salvage was awesome back then) My raven had no dmg mods and was armor tanked (yes I was crazy back then)

What I can say is that that income was far better than I ever made in Empire, or could make now in my empire activties.
I made 4 freighters, a carrier and a dread with refining the meta 1 mods and the hauler spawn drops (which you couldn't pick up with freighters back then... I'm looking at you trit drops)

Yes, there have been a lot of changes since then. (incursions, etc) But none of these really compare to the income that belt rat hunting generated back then. Incursions take fleets, time to setup, time to travel, etc. Then if you are lucky they have to be in hich sec space to be safe (there may be one or two in the list that are in high sec) Plus you have to compete with other incursion groups wanting to do the same sites.

Yeah I haven't been to 0.0 since 2008, but the isk per hour doing missions versus belt ratting can not have changed that significantly. Especially if you aren't stupid, have 2 accounts (which all the goonies in here are saying the use in hi sec anyway) I had systems that every belt had a least 3 1mil or better bs rats in each belt that could be completed in minutes... and that was without dmg mods! Hell killing those stupid elite cruisers in some missions takes more time than killing a whole belt spawn.

This was no risk to me (I had allaince intel changes, and just found an allaince pos whenever someone entered local, took no time to scan down and was very time efficient. etc (I lost more in hi sec due to one suicide gank by TEST just in my implants alone than I ever did in Null). I really just dont understand people making arguments here that hi sec should be nerfed because null income is so bad. WTF are you guys doing there that makes it so bad?!

I'm not a goon, i'm a pve player who understands that high sec is seriously unbalanced.

The null constellation my alliance uses as a ratting ground is currently perma-camped but some guys who like to blops drop on people. No complaints here, EVE is EVE, they are doing a good job forcing us to move around.

So i refit my ships to travel and explore, as did my buddy. We went around the region outside out home constellation scanning and doing minor sites. We even went "next door" to a region owned by a hostile alliance and did some ratting in their upgraded systems. On the way back to our region we go chased by a few tech3 ships (loki and 2 tengus) but thanks to the mighty Micro jump Drive we were able to get away after we crossed into our home region.

And both of us realized that we were wasting time and losing isk. So me and my buddy jump cloned to our high sec incursion clones, flew 20 jumps to the newest incursion, X'd up in the incursion community's chat with our Vindicator fits and made 150ish mil an hour in the comfort of high sec NOT getting chased by tech3 ships or camped by Blops dropping stealth bombers.

When we got bored of incursions, off we went to out mission agents (Trust partners for me, Sisters of EVE for him) and continued to make isk in safety.

So instead of flying my domi and typhoon in null sec risking destruction (which is good for the game if we had died), I spent last night in high sec making damn near the same isk in safety with MUCH less hassle/effort. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

I would love for CCP to do a SQL pull of ratting ships/freighters lost in null over a week, and ratting ships/freighters lost in high sec over the same week. Not that they could separate out ratting ships from PvP losses, but it would sure be interesting to really see where the dangerous space is, at least from the database's perspective, not some null sec cartel propagandists like their goon group.

Go to null sec. Belt rat for a week.

Come back to high sec. Get standings so you can do lvl 4 missions for either sisters of EVE of Trust partners (Thukker). Sell sisters probes, Statios BPCs, sisters probe launchers and/or Nomad implants.

Then come back and tell me about belt ratting. If you can remember it.

Also, that last sentence I bolded. Null sec isk isn't bad, in many ways (systems upgrades) it's better than before.

But high sec isk making activities are also better. Sure, incursions need fleet,s but the incursion communities provide the fleets. All i have to do is "X up" in a community's chat with my fit and I'm in.

Simply flying a scimitar in an incursion fleet bring in 120+ mil an hour just repping folks, compared to all the hassle and effort of null sec just to make a bit more isk. Not really worth it to be in null, as very many people learn after spending time in some renter corp just to come back to high sec.

Hell, low sec is a much better place to make isk now. I can't orbit a freaking beacon in a warp core stabbed frigate in null sec and make faction warfare LP lol. Some folks are pulling down ridicules isk farming FW. And thanks to the things like Micro jump drives and mobile depots, Lvl 5 low sec missions are VERY doable. All this for less risk (no bubbles) than you get in null sec.

Null sec. Where more than 90% of the players aren't. This thread is just another whine from the vocal minority.

I know a lot of people can make a lot of ISK from incursions.
When RnK deployed in outer ring for the goons/test war, i did the same, went to incursions and i can tell you for sure WTM can't get those numbers.
Also, i'm pretty sure most of the incursion communities are not going close to the ISK ISN it's making so using extreme cases like 150mil ISK/h is not really a good concept.

Personally i can make more ISK from lvl3 security in outer ring compared with lvl4 in HS.
And i don't even talk about how much you can make doing boring lvl4 mining in outer ring compared with mining missions in HS :)

Yes. It's more dangerous in null but it pays better...
My experience it's with NPC null. ... and i'm pretty sure pirate NPC null it's even better.
Compare that with sov 0.0 where security it's 5 times better ... and goons are still crying in forums.

Maybe logis are needed more but if you don't fly a pirate BS ... or god forbids, a cladari ship, you can wait in line for hours to join a fleet and that time it's 0 ISK/h.

Not to mention flying around between incursions 20+ jumps in a BS. Or flying to a HUB for ammo (not every one it's using those shini Nightmares) will make that ISK/h go down ... a lot.

Maybe i should buy a logi char next time the station it's camped.

Nullsec players hate conflict more than highsec players. Good idea though, and it could bring back actual piracy.

While I think the "nullsec is poor highsec is ISK fountain" propaganda is a lie and indeed nullsec cartels push this as a red herring, I'm not sure the game is going the way of nullsec just yet, at least in a manner that is handing them the game on a silver platter.

Siphons, MDs, bubble-resistant inties, warp speed changes, and the SoE ships - these things do not a safer and quieter nullsec make.

I would even admit that in spite of the CSMs and the blue bloc, CCP is giving players more tools to use in and against nullsec and the way it's put together.

Hence why the cries about "CCP is all for Nullsec! Nullsec CSMs are going to give the game to nullsec!" arguments do not stand on solid ground. The PoCos being turned over to "cartel" ownership and the aspect of conquerable stations might make it look like the game is being served up to the cartels, but I think it's a matter of tricking nullsec into investment in highsec while making the highsec crowd more motivated to move out.

Things are not going to be boring. That's for sure.

Apple vs Apples... How many of those 0.0 PvP kills are outside of wars / battles for timers.
Not that 0.0 is not dangerous... it is ...
And some people like that other way nobody will be in 0.0 and everyone will be in HS.