Ships & Modules

I love the Phoenix, and when I first started it's what I wanted to aim for, but after a while the reality hit me - it's basically useless for anything other than structure bashing. The massive sig radius requirements of the missiles only really make it useful for whacking things the size of a small moon. But skills? I wouldn't settle for anything but 5 on near all cap and shield skills, and missile skills are self explanatory. As for tactics, I know it has an awesome burst local tank like many Caldari ships, and typical of missiles half decent alpha and DPS, so I'd probably say small ish groups of structure bashing would be good, however I would choose the Revelation for prolonged sieges, and the Moros for anti-ship warfare. Never flown one like, this is just 3 years of research and I could be totally wrong.

A POS can't doomsday you, and the burst local tank can't do a whole lot against 2,000,000+ Alpha. I still want one though, just no ISK to get one or I would without hesitation, it's so sexy, I want the handle back on the engines though. And it suffers the same issues as other missile systems, it's only good for DPSing ships of the same size or bigger, and you don't get much bigger than a Dreadnaught. But I think my bottom line would be unless you're shooting a Titan in a huge fleet, or a POS in a small fleet, get a Revelation or Moros, Phoenix is sexy and I love it, it just suffers from issues that guns don't tend to suffer from.

http://eveion.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/manufacture-of-phoenixes-banned.html

Phoenix is terribad. Production should cease immediately.

But surely there must be someone out there in New Eden manufacturing those, i haven't got the luxury to start training for other dreadnaughts for scratch.

How come every time that I decide to train for a ship everyone tells me it is terrible ? Training for capital guns is such a long haul that i might actually have time to try LoL or get back to WoW.

CCP is in the process of banning them all



Try researching them before training into them. I never train for a ship without researching their use in any aspects applicable, acquiring fits from others as well as trying my own. Finally I make a skill plan and then consider if I want to put this into practice or not.
Lastly, training for capital guns isn't too tedious; it'll help you get T2 subcap guns along the way.

When I first started Eve, I made a caldari toon that now I do not use that much (I sometimes carebear with it to fund some of my pvp activities, when I get bored from mining ice). At that time the Drake was "the swiss army knife" of 0.0 and Raven was truly King of PvE (100% damage application with torps). I never got to get into those tho , I've quited Eve for a long time and when I got back lots of things changed regarding missile systems . I've found that on the hard way , when I finally got my t2 fitted Raven -- the damage application was no longer the same.
I'm definetly not a capital specialist, but if you all say that the Phoenix sucks, maybe I should listen and abandon the project. I hope you can understand me when I say that it will be hard for me to accept it since it was my very first toon and i wanted to keep it pure caldari .
These days I think it has become much harder for new pilots to make the right choice in terms of ship training and weapon systems. What is in vogue today , tomorrow will be obsolete. You train for Apocalypse and then finally when you can fit it full t2, the fleet doctrine changes to Dominix, good luck with that if you lack good drone skills.
Sadly the standard now in Eve requires you to fly all subcapitals in the game, preferably coupled with an armor carrier and dreadnaught. I don't know if I have that much time to allocate to the game.

The Phoenix is currently pretty ... well, bottom end of food chain. That means, you could skill it, buy one for cheap, master it, and once the balancetrain hits the Pheonix and puts it in a good spot, you're there, ready to go!

But for now, i'd Suggest a Moros/Rev for huge Capital Brawls, and a Naglfar for 'smallscale cap warfare' if something like that even exists.

Yes and no.

Lady can't fly very much (due to having 15.8 mill in leadership) only large guns i have is lasers, no drone skills to speak of, yet I can be apart of all our doctrins. Usually as logi yes but so what? Logi is the best :)

But if you talk pure 0.0 blobs then it might be a bit different but in low we always bring a few specific ships so someone can train into those and always be handy (recons, logi, hell scout if your skills are really bad.)

At first glance it can seem you need 200 million SP to be useful but when you start looking more closely that isnt the case. And if you cant be part of one or two fleets.. so what? It isnt the end of the world.

A Phoenix isn't a Dreadnought. 18k dps Moros all the way boss. That being said (and looking at your thought process behind wanting one) you need to take a step back and look at the reasons why you want to fly the ship. With 20 mil SP I seriously doubt you have all the jump drive skills necessary to even get far, the proper siege module to get the most out of a multi billion isk capital, and I doubt you have any clue what a Dread is actually used for.

Yes they are BIG yes they look cool but in all practicality a Dread is very very vulnerable. Out of Siege a Dread is useless, can be subject to EWAR like any other ship, and is just a fatter lumbering Battleship. In Siege a Dread becomes a powerhouse of damage. isk per amount of dps a Dread will get you the best (if in a Moros) with proper skills and fitting.

A proper dread will cost you just shy of 4 billion isk if you should lose it. Not withstanding I've killed over 300 billion isk in ships and got more than enough use out of them however a Dread is very situational.

Things to consider:

1. NEVER solo in a Dread unless bait with immediate backup. You will get dropped. You will die in under 4-5 minutes. And you will look stupid.

2. Insure the thing. Investing in the insurance and having 1.8 bil sent back to your wallet is a sigh of relief when losing one.

3. Know what you are doing. Capacitor is king in a Dread which is why running dual large cap boosters and chucking Navy 800's like a junkie is necessary for quick ganks. Get in get out before a counter fleet can respond. Simple as that.

Now onto the Phoenix. It's ****. Why? because missiles take to longer apply their damage therefore the dps is lackluster and application wise the Phoenix is more of a liability than an asset. Just seeing a big shiny ship isn't enough to justify owning or flying one. Knowing beforehand it's capabilities is what you as an Eve pilot need to do.

I recommend you stay away from capitals for now. Focus on cross training sub skills such as armor, capacitor skills, ewar, fitting, rigging, shield resistance, thermodynamics, drugs, gunnery and missile sub skills such as Surgical Strike. These skills are what you need to be focusing on to be an effective pvp pilot. Not diverting into a terrible Dread with limited use and the temptation to be lost quickly and foolishly.