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Tech 2 MWDs - Why bother?!
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Rekatan
We Heart U
#1 - 2013-11-30 21:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Rekatan
I've been googling and forum searching for 30 minutes now trying to find the answer to this one, so I apologize in advance if this is a redundant thread.

Can anyone clarify why T2 MWDs would ever be used?! I'm looking at the 10MN variety, and given the increased activation cost over an experimental 10MN MWD I actually lose 2s of cap when running the T2 . Even when looking at all 5s I'm still seeing a 1s *loss* when moving up to T2, and at a 2M ISK and 15 PG increase.

That said I can really only see the T2 being beneficial if you plan on only pulsing the MWD, which still seems marginal given the cost difference. Am I missing something here?!
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#2 - 2013-11-30 21:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Rekatan wrote:
I've been googling and forum searching for 30 minutes now trying to find the answer to this one, so I apologize in advance if this is a redundant thread.

Can anyone clarify why T2 MWDs would ever be used?! I'm looking at the 10MN variety, and given the increased activation cost over an experimental 10MN MWD I actually lose 2s of cap when running the T2 . Even when looking at all 5s I'm still seeing a 1s *loss* when moving up to T2, and at a 2M ISK and 15 PG increase.

That said I can really only see the T2 being beneficial if you plan on only pulsing the MWD, which still seems marginal given the cost difference. Am I missing something here?!

Take a look at the cap bonus. When you fit a MWD, the MWD lowers your total cap pool, but the cap recharge rate stays the same, so your cap regen per time goes down. T2 essentially gives you less of a penalty to your total cap pool and regen compared to t1
Rekatan
We Heart U
#3 - 2013-11-30 21:37:56 UTC
chaosgrimm wrote:
Rekatan wrote:
I've been googling and forum searching for 30 minutes now trying to find the answer to this one, so I apologize in advance if this is a redundant thread.

Can anyone clarify why T2 MWDs would ever be used?! I'm looking at the 10MN variety, and given the increased activation cost over an experimental 10MN MWD I actually lose 2s of cap when running the T2 . Even when looking at all 5s I'm still seeing a 1s *loss* when moving up to T2, and at a 2M ISK and 15 PG increase.

That said I can really only see the T2 being beneficial if you plan on only pulsing the MWD, which still seems marginal given the cost difference. Am I missing something here?!

Take a look at the cap bonus. When you fit a MWD, the MWD lowers your total cap pool, but the cap recharge rate stays the same, so your cap regen per time goes down. T2 essentially gives you better cap / time regen over t1


Experimental 10MN is 180 Activation/-19% cap
Tech 2 10MN is 198 Activation/-17% cap

The end result is the tech 2 actually being worse on your cap due to the higher activation cost, despite a 2% larger cap.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-30 21:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
But you have more cap to use for your guns/tank while the MWD is not running.

(Although in general you are right, meta MWD is in most cases preferred to TII. Look trough EWAR modules, there are some cases where a meta 4 is strictly better than the TII counterpart.)
Rekatan
We Heart U
#5 - 2013-11-30 22:00:52 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
But you have more cap to use for your guns/tank while the MWD is not running.

(Although in general you are right, meta MWD is in most cases preferred to TII. Look trough EWAR modules, there are some cases where a meta 4 is strictly better than the TII counterpart.)


Alright thanks, I was hoping I had missed something and T2 would actually be amazing for my Zealot in some hidden way :(
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#6 - 2013-12-01 00:35:05 UTC
Basically if you're going to be running your MWD alot you use meta4. If you're just using your MWD for a couple pulses and you ship is cap hungry (active tanked, laser boat) then a T2 MWD might be better.
Old Phill
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-12-01 00:58:07 UTC
t2 uses more pg so i like never use it unless i got heaps free which is sorta rare
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#8 - 2013-12-01 01:29:12 UTC
iirc, T2 USED to be cheaper, but that was a long long time ago.

There's several equipment categories that need metas rebalanced due to this problem.
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#9 - 2013-12-01 09:17:12 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Basically if you're going to be running your MWD alot you use meta4. If you're just using your MWD for a couple pulses and you ship is cap hungry (active tanked, laser boat) then a T2 MWD might be better.


This. pulse = t2. permaburn: meta
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#10 - 2013-12-01 09:30:43 UTC
Rekatan wrote:


The end result is the tech 2 actually being worse on your cap due to the higher activation cost, despite a 2% larger cap.

... assuming you perma-run it. You've never flown a ship that only fits a micro for burning back to gate?

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Rekatan
We Heart U
#11 - 2013-12-02 00:32:48 UTC
Tul Breetai wrote:
Rekatan wrote:


The end result is the tech 2 actually being worse on your cap due to the higher activation cost, despite a 2% larger cap.

... assuming you perma-run it. You've never flown a ship that only fits a micro for burning back to gate?


I've never run a micro period =-P always ABs. The sig penalty is just so bad, but now that they're making other ships specialized in MWD, I'm giving it a try.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#12 - 2013-12-02 00:51:41 UTC
Tech 2 can be built the same as all tech 2 stuff the whole design was implemented to allow null alliances to fit their fleets with decent equipment at the cost of building it out of expensive materials and having shortfalls in performance
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-12-02 01:57:28 UTC
If your fit is cap use heavy, use T2. if not, use meta.

There is no Bob.

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The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#14 - 2013-12-02 02:03:46 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
T2 mwds where extreme good till the nano nerf in 2008, because they did give 550% higher speed(named just did give 525% and T2 was the norm where named was mostly a thing on HACs like the Vaga or blaster megas where the fitting and cap savings where extreme important).

If you actually have to use it, the less cap use is plain more useful than the 2% extra cap, even on cap intensive hulls. In my personal opinion T2 MWDs need a bit more speed or a better cap reduction to be a real option like back in the days.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Razer Aideron
Ship Spinning 101
#15 - 2013-12-02 04:19:31 UTC
I believe that t2 mwd are better on Battle Cruisers. Saying that I always meta my cruisers mwd.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-12-02 09:41:26 UTC
When CCP nerfed MWD long time ago they removed the different speed levels of different meta MWD. And obviously they simply made a half doen job and never rebalanced the rest of the attributes to make them useful.


CCP should reintroduice some speed difference, just make it small. For example t1 500%, meta 504%, t2 508%, Faction 509-512%, deadspace 512-517%

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-12-02 09:41:47 UTC
availability,

in empire you dont have to worry becuase there is an abundance of modules available practically everywhere. But if/when you move out to null you you might find that there arent any t1 mods available locally.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#18 - 2013-12-02 11:50:38 UTC
Rekatan wrote:
Tul Breetai wrote:
Rekatan wrote:


The end result is the tech 2 actually being worse on your cap due to the higher activation cost, despite a 2% larger cap.

... assuming you perma-run it. You've never flown a ship that only fits a micro for burning back to gate?


I've never run a micro period =-P always ABs. The sig penalty is just so bad, but now that they're making other ships specialized in MWD, I'm giving it a try.


FFS:
Tul Breetai wrote:
You've never flown a ship that only fits a micro for burning back to gate?


You fit an ab for burning back to gate because of the signature radius penalty???

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.