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CNR vs Rubicon Golem
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Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#41 - 2013-11-26 22:37:35 UTC
Golem is WAY better then a CNR now.

Golem with bastion mode and 2 Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

First I used the Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II over the Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II because when I tested them both the Fuel Cache Partition gave more range. I'm guessing this has something to do with bastion giving the Golem 25% missile velocity bonus, but I can't be sure

With Rage Torps you get 44km with 1338DPS
With Javelin Torps you get 80km 1012DPS

If you want to use Fury Cruise you get a 1080DPS with range further then you can lock a target. If you use cruiser put rigor rigs on or something else, you don't need range rigs.

And being about to do that you can still fit 3 TPs and a tank that is unreal, and if you want a MWD, AB, or MDJ.

The CNR can't compare to the Golem anymore, in anyway.
Karaan S'jeth
Charons Templars
#42 - 2013-11-26 22:41:02 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Golem is WAY better then a CNR now.

Golem with bastion mode and 2 Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

First I used the Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II over the Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II because when I tested them both the Fuel Cache Partition gave more range. I'm guessing this has something to do with bastion giving the Golem 25% missile velocity bonus, but I can't be sure

With Rage Torps you get 44km with 1338DPS
With Javelin Torps you get 80km 1012DPS

If you want to use Fury Cruise you get a 1080DPS with range further then you can lock a target. If you use cruiser put rigor rigs on or something else, you don't need range rigs.

And being about to do that you can still fit 3 TPs and a tank that is unreal, and if you want a MWD, AB, or MDJ.

The CNR can't compare to the Golem anymore, in anyway.


Is that pyfa or ingame expirience?
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#43 - 2013-11-26 22:43:46 UTC
That's in game
RedPencil Jr
Siam Dragons
#44 - 2013-11-27 17:48:27 UTC
i'm curious between trp and cruise golem, witch one is better. Trp golem do more dps (1200+) on paper, but the range quite short (41 - 45km for t2 rage trp). Cruise do about 950 - 1000 dps on paper, but it can apply damage to a small ship better. However, I'm not sure if the super speed cruise is suffered from def miss on bastion.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#45 - 2013-11-27 18:28:39 UTC
I've used both, and really it seems they pop BS, cruisers, frigates in the same amount of hits. So really using cruises is just as good against BS and stuff as torps, and torps are just as good against frigates as cruise. So really it's just what you prefer to use, and your play style.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2013-11-27 21:11:48 UTC
Cruise golem advantage: fury ammo cost.
Torp golem advantage: make rage torps work or you have none.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#47 - 2013-11-27 21:35:22 UTC
Either Golem works, Rage torp do 1300 plus DPS and hit to 44km, that's pretty damn good, Javelin do just over 1000DPS and hit to 80km. Torps will work well. Cruise with fury do around 1080DPS and hit as far as you can lock. Both will do the same pretty much. Both took 3 to 4o to take a BS, 1 to 3 on cruiser, and 1 to 3 on frigate, all depends on elite ship or not. Big thing is have 2 or 3 TPs to help. The golems TP bonus and explosion velocity bonus both help out a good deal with taking out smaller targets. The cruise fit you can add rigor rigs though, doesn't really seem needed with 3 TPs though. Just fit a EM rig and something else for the other ritg. All in all it really just depends on how you like to play and what you rather have torps and cruise. I get bored missioning in just one ship so I have 3. HAM Tengu, Cruise/Drone Rattlesnake, and Torp Golem. So I can pick the best ship for whatever the mission is. If I am going up against Angles or Drones, or Ewar I go Golem, Range I use Rattlesnake, and mission where I need to move 40km or so Tengu and yes SoE have missioning where you have to just fly 40km plus to check out stuff.
Ira Kin Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-11-28 01:02:21 UTC
I have a golem now and its totally worth it!

Its Cruise fitted and I think its the best thing for this ship because you just warp in to a mission, bastion module on, mobile tractor unit out, turn the shield resistance and sit and fire away.

I am using fury missiles most of the time which take down Battleships within seconds. Cruisers and battlecruisers are going down in one volley.

I am wont be using torps any time soon. I dont feel like constantly chasing targets or Microwarp jumping to them. Cruise are just perfect with bastion module for me.

[u]Eve Anime channel: Anime Arigatou[/u]
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#49 - 2013-11-28 01:19:11 UTC
Your right cruise are nice. But torps are too, and you don't need to MWD around, I sure don't. I bastion up and rain down hell. All I'm saying is NO ship in EVE can hit at the range and do the DPS a Golem can with torps. But it's true the Golem with cruise OR torps is a beast.
Saille Darkcloud
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-11-28 14:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Saille Darkcloud
Ira Kin Mayaki wrote:
I have a golem now and its totally worth it!

... turn the shield resistance and sit and fire away.


Ira, I am trying to work up a fit while I wrap up the training for a Golem.

I am thinking:
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron x3
EM Ward Field II (change to match NPC type
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Curious about your mid-slots - can you share, please?
Ira Kin Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-11-28 15:11:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ira Kin Mayaki
Saille Darkcloud wrote:
Ira Kin Mayaki wrote:
I have a golem now and its totally worth it!

... turn the shield resistance and sit and fire away.


Ira, I am trying to work up a fit while I wrap up the training for a Golem.

I am thinking:
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron x3
EM Ward Field II (change to match NPC type
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Curious about your mid-slots - can you share, please?


I have:

1 x Gist C-Type Large shield booster
1 x Shield Boost Amplifier II
2x Invulnerability Field II
2 x Target Painter II
1 x 100mn Republic Fleet AfterBurner

I hardly ever use the Afterburner so you might consider Tech II one (The RF one had been with me since Raven) but whether you want AB or MWD its your choice... I went with AB because MWD has a penalty to cap.

When you go bastion I just flip the Invulnerability Field II on and fire away. If I start loosing shields then I turn the booster on for a few cycles to maintain my shields at 100% (I do not perma run it... its not cap stable...lasts for 8-10 minutes)

Target painters have a damn fast cycle time so 2 is enough for me, having anymore would be a waste of mid slots for me. I prefer to use the mids for defenses just in case.

But I can say this is a hefty fit that will withstand any mission without a problem.

[u]Eve Anime channel: Anime Arigatou[/u]
stoicfaux
#52 - 2013-11-29 02:38:45 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
Golem is WAY better then a CNR now.
Golem with bastion mode and 2 Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II

With Rage Torps you get 44km with 1338DPS
With Javelin Torps you get 80km 1012DPS

If you want to use Fury Cruise you get a 1080DPS with range further then you can lock a target. If you use cruiser put rigor rigs on or something else, you don't need range rigs.


These DPS numbers are odd, especially for Javelins. Where did they come from? EFT is showing 864 for Javelins with 4x CN BCUs, 5% damage and RoF implants, and "include reload time in DPS" option checked.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#53 - 2013-11-29 03:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
They come from ingame, but that is DPS with drones. I think it's more 1200+ just rage and 900+ something just javelin. I'd have to check though. Same with cruise fury I get 1080DPS with drones, no idea what it is without though.
Cmd BenJames
Pikachu's Paradise
#54 - 2013-11-29 10:29:39 UTC
Thaddeus Eggeras wrote:
They come from ingame, but that is DPS with drones. I think it's more 1200+ just rage and 900+ something just javelin. I'd have to check though. Same with cruise fury I get 1080DPS with drones, no idea what it is without though.


Without drones it is at maximum 926dps with Javelins (assuming damage implants, damage skills to level 5), and 1335 for rage assuming the same things.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2013-11-29 11:16:36 UTC
Dusty Daisy wrote:
it 1 or 2 shots almost everything that isn't a battleship and can 2 or 3 shot battleships
.


Erm, this is exactly what my CM Golem does.. Roll
RedPencil Jr
Siam Dragons
#56 - 2013-11-30 06:33:08 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Dusty Daisy wrote:
it 1 or 2 shots almost everything that isn't a battleship and can 2 or 3 shot battleships
.


Erm, this is exactly what my CM Golem does.. Roll



Have your CM golem suffer from ncp def missile?
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-11-30 15:12:18 UTC
RedPencil Jr wrote:
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
Dusty Daisy wrote:
it 1 or 2 shots almost everything that isn't a battleship and can 2 or 3 shot battleships
.


Erm, this is exactly what my CM Golem does.. Roll



Have your CM golem suffer from ncp def missile?


For sure it has at some point - I just don't keep attention to it. Doesn't change the result by that much though. Yes, it might take an additional volley on BS's in some cases, but that's still better than reloading to Jav's or spooling up MJD while doing nothing else :)
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-12-01 18:16:14 UTC
Okay I'm thinking of going from a CNR to Golem. What I'm looking at is DPS without drones and implants.

All setups are done on the latest version of EFT with 4 CN BSC and T2 Launchers. I'm going by all level 5 skills to make things equal.

Is EFT not showing something? I want to know before I spend 1.1 bil P


Torp Golem with range rigs

Rage 1258 @ 45km

Javelin 838 @ 80km



Cruise Golem

Fury 946 @ 208km

Precision 675 @ 138km



Cruise CNR

Fury 946 @ 166km

Precision 675 @ 111km
stoicfaux
#59 - 2013-12-01 20:10:20 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay I'm thinking of going from a CNR to Golem. What I'm looking at is DPS without drones and implants.

All setups are done on the latest version of EFT with 4 CN BSC and T2 Launchers. I'm going by all level 5 skills to make things equal.

Is EFT not showing something? I want to know before I spend 1.1 bil P


Torp Golem with range rigs

Rage 1258 @ 45km

Javelin 838 @ 80km

Rage has a explosion radius of 580m. Even with 3-4 TPs you won't save a volley except on some battleships when using Rage torps instead of CN torps.

Add in reload times from swapping back and forth between javelins, CN, or Rage torps, limited torp ranges, and the need to use Bastion for additional range boosting, and it's doubtful that torps in general provide any real advantage against NPCs.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#60 - 2013-12-01 20:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Quote:
Rage has a explosion radius of 580m. Even with 3-4 TPs you won't save a volley except on some battleships when using Rage torps instead of CN torps.

Add in reload times from swapping back and forth between javelins, CN, or Rage torps, limited torp ranges, and the need to use Bastion for additional range boosting, and it's doubtful that torps in general provide any real advantage against NPCs.


Wrong again. With rage and 3 TPs you will one shot pretty much anything cruiser and down, sometimes it takes 2 but rarely, BSs take 3. 44km Rage, and 80km Javs. Even if you have to switch to Javs it isn't much a big deal and they seem to pop cruisers and down in 1 to 2 shots too. BS in 4.

Cruise furies on a Golem is pretty damn good too though, I'd say it depends what your play style is and what you are going against. Big thing is the CNR is nothing compared to a Golem now, well honestly it wasnt before the patch, but now the Golem is that much better. Keep a CNR if you don't want to get Caldari battleship L5, if you do get a Golem and at LEAST get Marauder L4. The best thing about the Golem, is it does everything the CNR does, but with less. 4 launchers do what 8 do, less defense needed, more range, EWAR immuntiy, and etc etc. I will say the Golem does take more skills and cost more ISK, but it also gets through sites faster and easier, paying itself off faster.

I did worlds collide today, and went Serp way, EVERYTHING cruiser and down took one shot with rage or Javs, BS took 3 rage, and SOMETIMEs 4 with Javs, but usually 3. TPs that do 50% or 60% to sign rad help a ton. Don't doubt Torps just because you like cruise. I had cruise fury on my Golem, but when I saw the Golem gave more range and the best DPS with torps in game, why not try her out. Only ships that have better range with torps are SB, but they cant get close to the DPS a Golem can do.