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Make Tier 3 BCs skill reqs high

Author
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-11-19 16:11:09 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I disagree. Smile


Unfortunately for you, you're wrong.
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#22 - 2011-11-19 17:00:16 UTC
I don't think there's a particular problem as far as specialization goes. In fact, the old battlecruisers were the ones that broke the trend (as seen upwards in terms of ship size) of specialization. All races have tech 1, frigates and cruisers that are specialized: mini recons, dps (often in race primary and secondary weapons) and even mining boats.

The only special feature these new battlecruisers have is the absurdly small tank, which new players may feel the hurt from, especially if running missions.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#23 - 2011-11-20 00:10:45 UTC
Yup. Need to discourage the recycled alts and newbs at the same time. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Aessaya
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2011-11-20 00:38:50 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
IIRC, the prereq is Battlecruisers 5 ... and large guns, etc...

is that not already a fairly long train? (well, a few months anyway)


*flips open his notebook while adjusting the police cap he is wearing*
Just the facts, ma'am...
...as currently of today on Sisi...
...Cruiser 3 and Battle Cruiser 3...
...Tornado cannot fit a full rack of 1400mm artillery with out reactor controls
...So no need to get overly worried...
Its just the facts ma'am

edit: and/or the skills bugged as hell, 1400 scout no problem but T2 are just a *****. have all fitting reduction for weapons maxed, but

To bring 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II online requires 160.88 power units, but only 123.87 of the 1250.00 units that your power core produces are still available.

PG: 123/1250 used Ugh

makes no sense but the PG goes negitive into the thousands while equipping and then corrects itself. CPU shouldn't be a problem, 17.625 CPU per gun (checking fitting stats) x 8 guns = 141.2 but CPU is running 304/427.5 Question

second edit: PG doesn't calculate correctly when it shows, fitting the 8 guns has 7 onlined and 1 off with active pg at 123 when it should be 123x8= 984 + 123 = 1077 / 1250 which should still leave room to activate all 8

Can anyone fit the largest long range gun (Tachyon, 1400mm, 425m) to any Tier 3 BC ? Have maxed out fitting skills as well for gun support and CPU/PG of ship, but it looks like it should be possible without a reactor control.


You've certainly missed one of the devblogs, this one, specifically a part, where it states "...CPU and Power grid values displaying the remaining amount rather than used amount...".

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2011-11-20 01:05:27 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Yup. Need to discourage the recycled alts and newbs at the same time. Smile

Not really, no.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2011-11-21 00:16:51 UTC
I disagree. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#27 - 2011-11-21 01:17:22 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Emperor Salazar wrote:
...
I don't know what it costs but I think it should cost as much as a Tier 1 battleship.


60M from what I am hearing without limited seeding of the BPOs



that's 30 mil ish over the cost fotm BC's in game already. Which is inline with the bs price structure Nothing to see here. hell its a few mil off of t1 bs' I have seen. One of the reasons I trained jam scorpion....its much cheaper blow up vice the rokh.

Also have to factor in fotm pricing. It will be boosted until you get some cheap bpc's on the market at decent me to use "free" mins. This won't be for a while. Starting at BC you get them long research cycles. haven't looked at specs but these will be 2 months I imagine till you can get a good bpc or self researched bpo to diy the builds from mins you collect over time to make them more proiftable to gank in.



Jenshae Chiroptera
#28 - 2011-11-21 01:20:55 UTC
Erm ... maybe prices have changed but I was spending 60-80M on a cane and most battleships seemed to be 100 -150M+?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nezumiiro Noneko
Alternative Enterprises
#29 - 2011-11-21 01:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko
cane hull friday ran me 30 mil. Scorpion hulls are like 70-80 mil last time i made them. Been a few months but I have a good bpo for them..

I write off mods. YOu collect back 25-50% of em from the wreck if lucky. I keep ammo costs down by the old standy 2-4 reloads unless I feel fc is not suicidal or we have a set roam time (or a pos bash) . If I ganked be even cheaper....1 reload if that. I know concord is coming, why die with a full hold off of rf or cn ammo. I would be dying before I am empty anyway....why waste the ammo.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-11-21 02:04:47 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Yay Tipsy has arrived!

Maybe BS needs a review too. Far too many newbs get into a BS then get ganked and rage quit. Should be something you only start to think about when you are around the 10M SP mark.


Maybe you should stop posting?

We shouldn't design gameplay around retaining people who fly around in heavy missile fit ravens. There are already too many idiots in this game, most of them can be found in TEST.

Let me tell you about how in Fountain we've got people losing tengus and carriers constantly because they think that it's a good idea to go ratting when there are neutrals in local "because they've been there all day and are probably AFK". Couple of months ago one of our useless carrier ratters came under attack and he ejected before his carrier went down, because he wanted to save his pod. His attackers stopped shooting it and instead they stole his Archon. Clearly having skillpoints doesn't stop you from being a colossal mouth-breathing ****** with no common sense whatsoever, so there's no point in adding more boring skill training grind to this already horrible game just to fly ships that already require a few million SP to fit and fly properly.

As for alts and recycling characters, recycling characters is against the EULA, I don't see the point in padding out skill requirements and ruining everybody else's fun in order to stop people who are breaking the rules. Also who the hell recycles a character that can fly a battleship when they can take it out to nullsec and rat their way back up to positive sec while training skills and making money?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2011-11-21 11:19:03 UTC
Alt recycling happens.
Newbies emo quitting when they lose their battleship is all too frequent.

How do you suggest that CCP alter the game mechanics to encourage other directions of play?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-11-21 11:36:55 UTC
Quote:
Let me tell you about how in Fountain we've got people losing tengus and carriers constantly because they think that it's a good idea to go ratting when there are neutrals in local "because they've been there all day and are probably AFK".


I actually lol'd. Thanks for that :D
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2011-11-21 12:29:36 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Newbies emo quitting when they lose their battleship is all too frequent.


The game could do more to train players how to not be terrible, rather than relying on the player making the effort to find out the best tactics and fits for themselves, or hoping they somehow get a clue if they have to grind through more skills. And by train I don't mean a long-ass tutorial, I mean making you learn things while you play in a fun way (insofar as that is possible with PvE)... And by learn I don't mean missions that send you through EC-P8R to learn about bubble camps.

There's a maaaaasive disparity between the mechanics of PvE and PvP. All you get in highsec are these useless droves of NPCs that fly into your guns for you, so you fit your ship to cope with massive numbers of extremely predictable useless NPC enemies that pose no real threat and can't stop you from escaping if you run into difficulty. You set up your ship to have a cap-stable tank and use more expensive mods because you know you're in no real danger of losing them

Then you experience PvP in the form of one ship that doesn't care about tank or cap stability, using all of its resources to tear you apart while pinning you down so you can't escape. When newbies encounter that and lose their treasured ships, it's quite reasonable to expect them to ragequit because the game has done nothing to prepare them for something like that.

As for alt recycling, I don't really care about that as I live in nullsec and it's CCP's job to enforce the rules.
Emperor Salazar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-21 14:24:41 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:


Let me tell you about how in Fountain we've got people losing tengus and carriers constantly because they think that it's a good idea to go ratting when there are neutrals in local "because they've been there all day and are probably AFK".



I just got my first carrier and I am posting to confirm I will be doing this immediately.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#35 - 2011-11-21 14:26:36 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
...
The game could do more to train players how to not be terrible, ...


How? Give a good solid lay out for the tutorial and I shall gladly update the OP with it. Smile

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Somal Thunder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2011-11-21 14:59:53 UTC
Actually the T2 gun point made earlier is a pretty good one. Although AWU5 generally removes these problems for me, I find it really stupid and annoying that meta 4 weapons, although unable to use T2 ammo and generally a lot more expensive, are able to perform better than T2 weapons due to the fitting requirements of the T2 weaponry. Perhaps a 2% reduction to T2 PG and CPU per skill level of weapon spec?
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2011-11-21 15:47:23 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
...
The game could do more to train players how to not be terrible, ...


How? Give a good solid lay out for the tutorial and I shall gladly update the OP with it. Smile


Welcome newbro. You have joined the Gallente Navy Elite Capsuleer Turbo Alpha Force One! Here is a free ship that closely resembles an Atron/Incursus for you to fly, the ship can't be flown by anyone not in the Gallente Navy Elite blah blah, nor can it be repackaged, traded, contracted or reprocessed, and it explodes if you leave it unattended in space for an hour.

You're flying a gallente ship so you should train blasters, drones and armour. Here's a blaster, scrambler and web to put on your ship. Now go kill this douchebag NPC (An NPC that behaves as closely as possible to a player PvPer)

Have a series of missions that put you in situations that you might encounter in PvP, branching storyline that depends on the outcomes of your engagements. Random enemies, random scenarios, no eve-survival walkthroughs for you to read and change your fit before you undock.

Since you get a free ship your wins/losses can be rewarded/paid for with LP instead of isk. The more LP you have the bigger and better the ships they give you to fly. Cash in your LP for faction ships and other rewards that can be converted to isk.

You gain rewards, train useful skills, learn to fit and fly your ship properly and MAYBE you'll learn how to hold your own or at least survive in encouters with players outside of highsec.
Somal Thunder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2011-11-21 16:08:13 UTC
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
...
The game could do more to train players how to not be terrible, ...


How? Give a good solid lay out for the tutorial and I shall gladly update the OP with it. Smile


Welcome newbro. You have joined the Gallente Navy Elite Capsuleer Turbo Alpha Force One! Here is a free ship that closely resembles an Atron/Incursus for you to fly, the ship can't be flown by anyone not in the Gallente Navy Elite blah blah, nor can it be repackaged, traded, contracted or reprocessed, and it explodes if you leave it unattended in space for an hour.

You're flying a gallente ship so you should train blasters, drones and armour. Here's a blaster, scrambler and web to put on your ship. Now go kill this douchebag NPC (An NPC that behaves as closely as possible to a player PvPer)

Have a series of missions that put you in situations that you might encounter in PvP, branching storyline that depends on the outcomes of your engagements. Random enemies, random scenarios, no eve-survival walkthroughs for you to read and change your fit before you undock.

Since you get a free ship your wins/losses can be rewarded/paid for with LP instead of isk. The more LP you have the bigger and better the ships they give you to fly. Cash in your LP for faction ships and other rewards that can be converted to isk.

You gain rewards, train useful skills, learn to fit and fly your ship properly and MAYBE you'll learn how to hold your own or at least survive in encouters with players outside of highsec.



This already exists in some form and is called epic arcs.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2011-11-21 16:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit McJafitson
Somal Thunder wrote:
This already exists in some form and is called epic arcs.


In the context of all that has been said, are you suggesting that doing an epic arc teaches and prepares a player for lowsec and nullsec survival and PvP? Because if you are suggesting that then you're a moron, if you're not suggesting that then you have missed the point of what I said completely.
Somal Thunder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-11-21 17:32:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Somal Thunder
Jafit McJafitson wrote:
Somal Thunder wrote:
This already exists in some form and is called epic arcs.


In the context of all that has been said, are you suggesting that doing an epic arc teaches and prepares a player for lowsec and nullsec survival and PvP? Because if you are suggesting that then you're a moron, if you're not suggesting that then you have missed the point of what I said completely.


No, I'm suggesting that if you want to have this kind of NPC experience, you do epic arcs. If you want to learn how to survive in 0.0 and low-sec, JOIN A CORPORATION.
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