Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but RHML II's do more dps during their cycle than cruise missiles...
I mean, granted it is burst damage, but if anything survives burst damage, you're doing it wrong anyway...

Here would be my suggestions for HMLs and HAMs (as well as a few others). These are base values, before skill (etc.) modifications. The biggest changes are to torpedoes (drastically improved damage application) and cruise missiles (range nerf). Rockets are a bit better, light marginally worse - and heavies and heavy assaults have slightly improved damage application. The velocity on rockets, heavy assault missiles and torpedoes has been substantially increased (flight time reduced to compensate).

Rocket … 20m explosion radius, 170(+20) m/sec explosion velocity, 1.0(-1)s flight time, 4500(+2250) m/sec velocity
Light Missile … 40m explosion radius, 150(-20) m/sec explosion velocity, 5.0s flight time, 3750 m/s velocity
Heavy Assault Missile … 100(-25)m explosion radius, 125(+24)m/sec explosion velocity, 2.0(-2)s flight time, 5000(+3500) m/s velocity
Heavy Missile … 125(-15)m explosion radius, 100(+19)m/sec explosion velocity, 6.5s flight time, 4300 m/s velocity
Torpedo … 300(-150)m explosion radius, 85(+14) m/sec explosion velocity, 1.5(-4.5)s flight time, 6000(+4500) m/s velocity
Cruise Missile … 325(-5)m explosion radius, 75(+6) m/sec explosion velocity, 10.0(-4)s flight time, 4700 m/s

As for RLMLs and RHMLs, I think if the reload times were revised to 20 and 30 seconds respectively, that would probably balance them out nicely.

Missiles are used in blobs, both from Ravens and Phoons, and I assure you they are cruise missiles, no one uses rapids in a proper fleet fight.

i would support a moddest range increase but no damage bonus please.
HM were op for such a long time...

though i still think te/tc/td working on missiles would be the best solution.

Specially since crow fleets are fotm.

I challenge anyone to go do a comparison in EFT of Fury Light Missiles and Precision Heavy Missiles (without using TPs, rigs, or webs). It's laughable. The "precise" heavy missiles do way less damage to slow frigs and fast cruisers than the "imprecise" light missiles do. I mean we are talking double the damage in many cases. You would think cruiser-sized weapons that are supposed to be precise would have good damage application against pretty much all cruisers wouldn't you?

Think Precision heavies and Faction HAM's are sharing the same explosion radius and almost the same velocity.

New RLML still are very dangerous to lone frigates.

... a 1b tengu had like what 500 dps (perhaps uber skilled guys with implants could get to the 700 barrier...

The thing with battleships was exactly what I was saying. 3 BS can't go in a gang of hafly competent cruisers under gate guns and have any hope to survive.

RLML was the only weapon allowing a ship to be completely immune to a lower class of ship as long as numbers didn't spike. Even a good gang of frigates had to be careful when taking on a RLML Caracal to not lose too many of the gang.

And RLML also completely took on the role of destroyers.

Tacticaly, the role of destroyers is frigate predatation. But RLML cruisers were plain better than them : they had a lot more tank, more speed, more dps, same or more range, perfect or near to perfect damage application. RLML was the ultimate frigate predation interdiction weapon : no frigate could stay in a range of a Caracal. They completely obsoleted destroyers and the only saving grace for them was small plexes and people with no missile skills.

So you're not gonna find a lot of these frigate farming Caracals, and I admit it was a little exagerating on this, but that's because EVE don't work like that : you just don't warp in when you have no chance, and you warp off if you see the Caracal coming.

New RLML still are very dangerous to lone frigates. Their new role is obvious to me : protecting a cruiser fleet against a fast tackle and anti-frigate fire support in guerilla warfare. That's indeed niche roles, but people will certainly find more creative ways to use them than I can imagin, and that's a niche weapon to begin with anyway. And they will still have the advantage against destroyers of not dying if a cruiser looks at them. Most people here cry about what they used as a main versatile weapon system ; they should be using HML.

Cruisers are not meant to be frigate predators, exactly like battleships are not meant to be cruiser predators. Battleship is not often endangered by a lone cruiser, yet cruisers still can be threats to them, and even more so if their friends are behind. The same is true for missile cruisers and frigates : if 50 dps look low on paper, that's enough to kill a frigate, yet there's no reason a frigate shouldn't have any chance against a cruiser if she don't fit for it.

That is the big picture, where a lot of ships interract between themselves, of different classes, with different weapons, in different scenarios. In this big picture, RLML were simply too good for the health of the game. And if it happen that HML can't take their role (they never have been really tested because RLML instantly took their place when they were nerfed), then you might cry for them to be buffed, but hopefully with a comprehensive vision of them and not with the point of view of a children wanting a blue bioman and not a red one because red sux.

@some stupid whiners : if you ever get tackled by an AB Incursus in your Caracal, you just deserve to die and be poded after that. Caracal is TWICE as fast as the AB Incursus. You can KITE him to death. If he have railguns, he will barely pass your shield passive regen, and if he is blaster fit, any frigate will murder him. Think about him as a counter to your missile ship, because he will do just that and die to everything else.

No one would complain that a frigate take 0 dps from medium LR turret below 30km, and no one would complain that a turret is rendered useless by TD. AB is the TD of missiles. Just deal with it and stop crying.

That pretty much completely negates their purpose. You can already use mid slots to improve missile damage application. Turrets have Tracking Enhancers and these would basically be the missile version of those. Besides most missile ships are shield tanks so mid slots are at more of a premium than lows.

A mid slot option on par with Tracking Computers would be a good move too though.

It requires a combination of mods and changes to missile damage application stats. As long as frigates are immune to heavy missiles nobody is going to use them for pvp.

That may well be true, but I think the wise thing for CCP to do is incrementally address the issue rather than adding new damage application modules and buffing larger missiles at the same time.

Well to be clear - technically, heavy precision missiles should be aimed at hitting smaller targets well, but still not as well as lights against frigates, that is for sure, somewhere in-between and close enough that fitting a normal Heavy Missile launcher is always more flexible than a RLML. If I'm flying a ship with heavy missiles, Normal T2 Heavy Missiles should be focused on hitting mid size targets decently and precisions against fast, small signature cruisers and frigates.

Oh, they're not immune… I took out a Hawk yesterday with nothing more than Faction HMLs and ammunition on my Tengu.