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Mining profession needs an overhaul

First post
Author
Lance Stratos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-11-02 21:25:38 UTC
Recently, i have been advocating for work on the mining of eve and the love it needs (mostly in the Features and Ideas); It seems that more people in other posts are doing so (not because of me). Current mining is suffering and needs CCP to look at, and look at it not from the isk/hour idea that most people see it as.

Is mining "safe" compared to other professions? Yes it is, but other professions have more options available to them. Look at Nullsec ratting. People lose ships in there, but there are also people capable of bringing more secure ships like carriers that don't even take a scratch except when hostile players shoot them.

So is mining safe when other people can bring more ships or new tactics that dramatically increase their survivability and income at the same time and receive the same risks?

Mining is dependent on the player run market when you assume isk/hour, while NPCs are not, they receive the static bounties on them. So how can we balance it? we can't and i accept that unless something about rat bounties change, and this i am not advocating.

What I want to see is a rebalance of the mining profession all together. Many of the Modules, LP store, and distribution of the minerals are problematic or useless:

Little things issues:
Ore Miners: Only a range bonus, this is not exactly useful in mining, yes range is nice, but the asteroids are not running away.
Harvesting Implants: The low-grade set for harvesting is again a Range bonus, not useful for the price.
Modulated Miners: This module is unlocked at mining level 5, however you can not use any of the ammo for it. You would otherwise suffer a loss using it
Mining Crystals: Required for modulated mining lasers but takes 31 day for just all tech 1 crystals, twice that for tech 2. Does not have any mining skill prereqs.
Mining Drones: While yes, some people do use them, they seem to be pretty lacking in comparison to others mining ways.

Larger issues:
Limited tech tree: There is a large gap in effective ships to use. Current mining ships make a plausible expansion of the tree difficult without making other ships obsolete or increasing the new ship's risk. (new content like my resent post of how to expand the resouce gathering tree)
Null sec Industry pt1: The difficulty for the 0.0 industrial index is far too difficult to maintain and raise. Even if it is raised, there is such a small if non-existent benefit for it.
Null sec Industry pt2: While the Idea of removing the need to scan down the asteroid clusters seemed like a good idea, the already vulnerable and easy to kill miners will have even more problems living with their limited tree after the warp speed changes. The now ultra slow haulers who are mid-warp will be extremely likely to die with an interceptor (who is now nullified) waiting in the belt.
Null sec Industry pt3: Mexallon, while i like the interdependence for null and empire, there is still a massive deficit in null.
Skill Tree: Skills, ship skills not included, related directly to mining are limited to (exception to drone bonuses) 7 skills. With mining crystals its 23 (prereqs like refining not included). needs to be streamlined and some expansion would be nice, like a mining ROF reduction and range bonus skills.

Now you may say that i am focusing on nullsec mining. This is true, I am because i think that Nullsec is what needs the help for the profession the most. Highsec i am fine with, the concord support is safe enough in my opinion and the fact you only have to deal with npc frigates is not much of a problem. Any issues in highsec would be solved with the little things changes.


The point is at the end of this, does CCP truly understand the issue with this profession, which is necessary for the EVE game play to build things for people to blow up now that drone poo is gone? Does CCP even plan on acting on this profession without brushing it off? Will the CSM push for an overhaul on this section of the game-play which needs it?
wagashi
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-11-03 08:13:04 UTC
The only problem with mining is that it's boring. It really doesn't matter how easy make indexes to maintain nor how much SP it takes. The system is uninteresting and just simply work. Many of the serious miners multibox 6 plus accounts while doing something else IRL to occupy that part of the mind that requires thought.

I tell you enough,not one more suggestion or request unless it is to ask CCP to make mining fun. If they can't remove it all together and make asteroid harvesters that deploy like these new pos siphons.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2013-11-03 09:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Mining is hopelessly one-dimensional and passive, and the whole process would benefit from a complete reworking to inject some variety and activity rather than miners warping in, activating lasers, and going AFK for 30 minutes.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Suran Parr
Os Terriveis
#4 - 2013-11-11 14:34:51 UTC
Long overdue for a rework.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-11-11 15:00:31 UTC
It does need a complete rework.

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Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-11-12 14:44:14 UTC
I think it could use some work, but I don't think any of your ideas would make mining that much better. I'd like to see that "ring mining" thing looked at.

Can't find the post now, but I liked the version where you needed 3 or more ships flown manually to "scoop" up the asteroids in a "net" that has one "corner" attached to each ship. Thus requiring much more attention.

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Homem na Estrada
#7 - 2013-11-12 18:15:32 UTC
Problem is:
I really dont know how you guys mine, because I cant be afk mining for that kind of time. I imagine that you mine alone, with no fleet, no bonus, with one mining laser in an industrial, because if you have a fleet with a mining leadership at least foreman, you will fill the cargohold of any mining dedicated ship in a few minutes. I am not aware of any way you can automatically get ore from your ore hold to somewhere else. If you can take 5, 10 minutes afk mining, sure your yield is the drawback of your lack of actions while mining.

Mining cant be "FUN". Mining is what mining is. You mention null sec, so you gotta be having Rorq support and a minimum of 1.7k cicle to be complaining, and that cant let you be doing something else and maximizing your ore acquisition. If you mine alone in null sec with non miner ship, you are just wasting time.

While I agree that mining need some love, I cant possibly think a way that the mechanics of mining would change to be "fun", unless they do the same crap they did with Hacking and Archeology, and you need to "click" mineral clusters in an asteroid and the laser will pick that up, and you do the "farmville style" mining, which will make mining mining just needing more clicks but not actually making it more enjoyable, just like Hacking and Archeology.

There are two powers: Power of Numbers and Power of Leadership They compensate or add to each other, but nothing compensates or add to having neither. Politics: If you dont use it, it will use you.

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#8 - 2013-11-23 22:10:13 UTC
There is nothing wrong with mining as it is now. There needs to not only be different things to do but different levels of interaction as well.

Want to put in a few minutes then go afk for 2 days, then PI is for you.

Want to lock asteroids and switch them 8-10 mins later, then mine.

Want to play a slow activity for a long time, then exploration.

Need constant high exhilaration activity then pvp.

Etc, etc. not just different labels but actual different play styles with different tempos.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#9 - 2013-11-26 20:37:39 UTC
My thread about mining is now open again for discussion which contains a variety of methods to diversify mining methods. Also further down that thread are links to other threads that have awesome ideas, too.

Many things could be done with mining, alas, nothing is done.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-11-27 15:23:41 UTC
We need:

1. More yeild per cycle.
2. Better tanking to mitigate gankers
3. More ore hold capacity
4. To increase ore yeild one more high slot on all mining vessels
5. Add to the list people....
Grace Ishukone
Ishukone Advanced Research
#11 - 2013-11-28 01:23:29 UTC
Simple answer: minigame should add hidden cookies to make it more interesting. A 'find' in the ice, if you can recover it.

But don't worry lads, there is hope! Go over to Star Citizen and get their devs to fess up to the mining design there, and critique it properly. I love EVE Online, but let's get real. Pay to play 10 year old game with Eve Valkyrie as an extra add-on vs first person new game modeled heavily on EVE ... new players are simply not going to join EVE once Star Citizen hits, because let's be blunt, EVE the game is often unplayable. Repeated server cluster crashes in nullsec sov warfare battles, unplanned emergency downtimes, unplanned extended downtimes every night this week it feels like ... that's just not going to cut it.

So yes, keep the ideas rolling. But time to think outside EVE now, because love it or hate it, that is where things seem to be heading fast.
YinKo Toranaga
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-11-30 15:59:51 UTC
What mining really needs is the elimination of static belts (ie - they were mined out a long time ago and should never respawn) and the introduction of scanning down minable asteroid clusters in each system.
Zentiu
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-03 20:37:16 UTC
Mining is safe - You make less isk but lose less.
Everything else has risk, - You make more isk but lose more.

I don't see the problem here.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-12-07 17:30:48 UTC
Grace Ishukone wrote:
Simple answer: minigame should add hidden cookies to make it more interesting. A 'find' in the ice, if you can recover it.

But don't worry lads, there is hope! Go over to Star Citizen and get their devs to fess up to the mining design there, and critique it properly. I love EVE Online, but let's get real. Pay to play 10 year old game with Eve Valkyrie as an extra add-on vs first person new game modeled heavily on EVE ... new players are simply not going to join EVE once Star Citizen hits, because let's be blunt, EVE the game is often unplayable. Repeated server cluster crashes in nullsec sov warfare battles, unplanned emergency downtimes, unplanned extended downtimes every night this week it feels like ... that's just not going to cut it.

So yes, keep the ideas rolling. But time to think outside EVE now, because love it or hate it, that is where things seem to be heading fast.

a minigame will do the same thing to mmining it did to exploration.

be interesting until you have to do it for the fifth time, at which point you get bored and leave because the only real change is now you have to make 30 EXTRA clicks for what will be on average the same isk/hour you were making before.

mining IS the afk activity, its for people who would rather chat with friends whiel making money, its the social (or closest to it) part of EVE, exploration used to be the antisocial part of EVE, but then they turned it into a middle-school version of minesweeper.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#15 - 2013-12-16 01:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Agondray
no one cares erotica, ive been to null to do industry and couldnt do it there because of having to be on CTAs everyday far from alliance space guarding another alliance space, and if your not your threatened with being kicked out of the alliance


edit: by the way good post OP

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-12-29 04:30:14 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Mining is hopelessly one-dimensional and passive, and the whole process would benefit from a complete reworking to inject some variety and activity rather than miners warping in, activating lasers, and going AFK for 30 minutes.


Mining lasers do not auto-repeat=1

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Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-12-29 05:40:52 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Mining is hopelessly one-dimensional and passive, and the whole process would benefit from a complete reworking to inject some variety and activity rather than miners warping in, activating lasers, and going AFK for 30 minutes.


Mining lasers do not auto-repeat=1

sure, as soon as guns only cycle once and stop aswell.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#18 - 2014-01-03 23:56:56 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Mining is hopelessly one-dimensional and passive, and the whole process would benefit from a complete reworking to inject some variety and activity rather than miners warping in, activating lasers, and going AFK for 30 minutes.


Mining lasers do not auto-repeat=1

sure, as soon as guns only cycle once and stop aswell.


All that means is that the F1 monkeys need to pound that button to make their reimbursement.
ionageman TOG
security services
#19 - 2014-01-05 04:06:49 UTC


You think mining is dull . Don't mine .

Tired of having to defend a play style .

Meh the more threads I read the more pointless it all seems .

Change seems to be the constant in these discussions

I seriously wonder if eve will be around in 10 years .

Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#20 - 2014-01-08 11:49:04 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
We need:

1. More yeild per cycle.
2. Better tanking to mitigate gankers
3. More ore hold capacity
4. To increase ore yeild one more high slot on all mining vessels
5. Add to the list people....



So your idea for making mining more interesting, is to not make it more interesting but just buff it.

More isk for the same risk... No.


"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.

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