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Maelstrom L4 Fits

Author
Funillingus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-11-23 05:52:33 UTC
What's the best L4 fit for Maelstrom at the moment? Can any mission runners who have been successful with the mael share their fits? The biggest problems I have are with 800mm AC. Whenever I encounter anything that orbits at 40-50km it's a real pain to kill it with 800mm AC, so I'm forced to use 1400mm arty to be able to do anything.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2 - 2013-11-23 06:47:48 UTC
I've never flown a Maelstrom but this looks fine to me.

[Maelstrom, Mission]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L

Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I

It's only 219 million ISK.
Funillingus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-11-23 06:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Funillingus
Riot Girl wrote:
I've never flown a Maelstrom but this looks fine to me.

[Maelstrom, Mission]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L

Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I

It's only 219 million ISK.


I can't use the T2 guns yet.

And why the two medium capacitor boosters?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#4 - 2013-11-23 07:05:41 UTC
Switch to T1 guns then and the cap boosters are for cap control. You can switch them for anything you want if you don't like them.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5 - 2013-11-23 07:34:51 UTC
1 Heavy Booster is enough, using 2 medium boosters is wasting a slot. Here's a Maelstrom fit for Angels:

[Maelstrom, L4]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100MN Afterburner II
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Warrior II x5
Valkyrie II x5

If you can't use T2 guns then just switch them for T1 guns for the time being, you should get T2 asap though mainly for barrage so that you can still hit targets that are further away without wasting time burning toward them.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#6 - 2013-11-23 08:21:06 UTC
Yeah well, I looked at the tracking computer at first but that seemed like a waste of a slot with a range script too tbh.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#7 - 2013-11-23 08:27:11 UTC
[Maelstrom, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II


Garde II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x2

Split the guns into 2 groups, if you don't have AWU you can use 1200mm artillery. The T2 rigs are relative cheap and very useful. If you want to upgrade something start with the damage mods.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#8 - 2013-11-23 16:13:31 UTC
Djego's fit is a pretty good one to go for, but CCC rigs (even T1) will give you better sustained tank than the Cap Safeguards. I'm guessing the Target Painter is to help prevent the smaller ships from getting under your guns so that you can use the sentries, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough, especially if your skills aren't up to scratch. I'd personally swap it for a Shield Boost Amp, at least until you're comfortable with the fit. And I'd stick with small and medium drones to deal with the small stuff that gets in close.

As you've found, T1 ACs are difficult to use on a non-range-bonused ship. You can get around it somewhat with T2 guns and Barrage. But otherwise, yeah, unless you're dealing with Angels, artillery will probably be the better choice.
Funillingus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-11-23 18:02:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Funillingus
The Djego wrote:
[Maelstrom, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L
1400mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion L

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II


Garde II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x2

Split the guns into 2 groups, if you don't have AWU you can use 1200mm artillery. The T2 rigs are relative cheap and very useful. If you want to upgrade something start with the damage mods.


Yeah I don't have the power grid for that. When people link fits with adaptive invuln field I never know if they're meant to be swapped for mission specific hardeners, or just kept how they are. How would the target painter be used? Could I swap the rigs for 3x CCC? Would the 0.017 tracking make a large difference? I also don't know if I'd be comfortable spending that much on rigs. What are the Garde's for?

Also is the tempest any good for missions?
Seriously Bored
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-11-23 18:20:42 UTC
Funillingus wrote:
Also is the tempest any good for missions?


Nope. I'd pick a Phoon over a Tempest... possibly for anything.

Mael is really the best T1 Minmatar mission ship. And I would caution against using an AC Maelstrom until you can field T2 guns. It just doesn't work well without being able to use Barrage ammunition. Stick to arties before then, like Djego's fit.
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#11 - 2013-11-23 18:26:34 UTC
Funillingus wrote:
Yeah I don't have the power grid for that. When people link fits with adaptive invuln field I never know if they're meant to be swapped for mission specific hardeners, or just kept how they are. How would the target painter be used? Could I swap the rigs for 3x CCC? Would the 0.017 tracking make a large difference? I also don't know if I'd be comfortable spending that much on rigs.

Also is the tempest any good for missions?

Invuln vs. Mission Specific is a matter of laziness. I try to omni-tank (invulns) when possible, but mission specific will always give you better tank (and save you a little cap).

The Metastasis, as well as the TP, are for bringing the range at which you can still hit the smaller ships inward a bit. Personally, with arties I think that's pissing into the wind, but Djego might well have more experience in that than I. I'd suspect that if it's possible, it requires high skills.

Tempest: in short, no.

Funillingus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-11-23 18:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Funillingus
Seriously Bored wrote:
Funillingus wrote:
Also is the tempest any good for missions?


Nope. I'd pick a Phoon over a Tempest... possibly for anything.

Mael is really the best T1 Minmatar mission ship. And I would caution against using an AC Maelstrom until you can field T2 guns. It just doesn't work well without being able to use Barrage ammunition. Stick to arties before then, like Djego's fit.


Yeah I saw a MJD sniping rocket typoon fit that looked cool. The problem is I have most my time invested in projectile turrets.

How would mael with t2 guns compare to the typhoon?
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#13 - 2013-11-23 18:56:18 UTC
Funillingus wrote:
Yeah I saw a MJD sniping rocket typoon fit that looked cool. The problem is I have most my time invested in projectile turrets.

How would mael with t2 guns compare to the typhoon?

I don't have personal experience with the Phoon, but from some playing around in Pyfa it (and even better the Fleet Issue) can put out some silly damage at range. The problem is that it requires a lot of skills in both missiles and drones to make the most of it, and it's a tight fit (I couldn't pull it off without at least one CPU module). You'll have an easier time doing up a workable Maelstrom fit, especially if you already have the projectile skills.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#14 - 2013-11-24 10:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Funillingus wrote:

Yeah I don't have the power grid for that. When people link fits with adaptive invuln field I never know if they're meant to be swapped for mission specific hardeners, or just kept how they are. How would the target painter be used? Could I swap the rigs for 3x CCC? Would the 0.017 tracking make a large difference? I also don't know if I'd be comfortable spending that much on rigs. What are the Garde's for?

Also is the tempest any good for missions?


The Invus are omni hardeners that provide about 55% against everything, what can be better against npcs that deal more than 2 damage types(like angels) but are mostly useful if you don't want to swap them each time. They do need more cap than specific hardeners.

A target painter gives you technically a extra 30% tracking for your guns and drones(even more with skills) at medium range on the target that you are shooting, it doesn't stack with other tracking mods and you just have to activate it on the target. While a web would be better at close, you will not hit with artillery at sub 20km anyway and at medium range the main bottleneck for applied dps is tracking with artillery(even a 1200mm setup with enough tracking can be surprisingly effective since it will out damage T1 auto cannons at around 26km and provides good damage at 50km ranges).

Well you can use CCCs but for artillery I would try to get as much tracking as possible, since it is the major problem in pve with them, at least on hulls that can't control range and transversal to the target easy(like a nano cane, tornado or macharial).

Garde II are sentry drones, different to other drones they don't move to the target. Once launched they will sit next to you and fire from that position. The big advantage is that they deal instant damage(no flight time), do more than smalls and mediums, can take some hits(with good skills they can tank a hole wave on the shield while your ship takes no damage) and can be scooped instantly, meaning they are not prone to destruction like webed light or medium drones at range. The main point of sentry drones, especially on long range setups like beams, rails or artillery is that if your ship is in a position to hit the targets well you drones will also be able to hit well from there and the immensely help to improve the applied dps at medium range and with a bit of practise they are very good to snipe frigs at range(what is hard with artillery) and help to finish off targets in structure(since they have a much higher ROF and can finish the job while you put the main guns on the next target) what overall helps to get targets down before they come to close and get under artillery tracking.

The tempest can work with good skills and piloting(I flown a lot of plexes and L4 stuff in Low sec with a normal pvp fitted nano pest -> no active tank). However it is not particular good as new player ship.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#15 - 2013-11-24 13:39:05 UTC
Tempest is ****, Tempest Fleet Issue is good if you can afford it though.
Funillingus
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-11-24 22:00:13 UTC
The Djego wrote:
Funillingus wrote:

Yeah I don't have the power grid for that. When people link fits with adaptive invuln field I never know if they're meant to be swapped for mission specific hardeners, or just kept how they are. How would the target painter be used? Could I swap the rigs for 3x CCC? Would the 0.017 tracking make a large difference? I also don't know if I'd be comfortable spending that much on rigs. What are the Garde's for?

Also is the tempest any good for missions?


The Invus are omni hardeners that provide about 55% against everything, what can be better against npcs that deal more than 2 damage types(like angels) but are mostly useful if you don't want to swap them each time. They do need more cap than specific hardeners.

A target painter gives you technically a extra 30% tracking for your guns and drones(even more with skills) at medium range on the target that you are shooting, it doesn't stack with other tracking mods and you just have to activate it on the target. While a web would be better at close, you will not hit with artillery at sub 20km anyway and at medium range the main bottleneck for applied dps is tracking with artillery(even a 1200mm setup with enough tracking can be surprisingly effective since it will out damage T1 auto cannons at around 26km and provides good damage at 50km ranges).

Well you can use CCCs but for artillery I would try to get as much tracking as possible, since it is the major problem in pve with them, at least on hulls that can't control range and transversal to the target easy(like a nano cane, tornado or macharial).

Garde II are sentry drones, different to other drones they don't move to the target. Once launched they will sit next to you and fire from that position. The big advantage is that they deal instant damage(no flight time), do more than smalls and mediums, can take some hits(with good skills they can tank a hole wave on the shield while your ship takes no damage) and can be scooped instantly, meaning they are not prone to destruction like webed light or medium drones at range. The main point of sentry drones, especially on long range setups like beams, rails or artillery is that if your ship is in a position to hit the targets well you drones will also be able to hit well from there and the immensely help to improve the applied dps at medium range and with a bit of practise they are very good to snipe frigs at range(what is hard with artillery) and help to finish off targets in structure(since they have a much higher ROF and can finish the job while you put the main guns on the next target) what overall helps to get targets down before they come to close and get under artillery tracking.

The tempest can work with good skills and piloting(I flown a lot of plexes and L4 stuff in Low sec with a normal pvp fitted nano pest -> no active tank). However it is not particular good as new player ship.



Why core defense cap safeguards over CCC?
Raven O'Russ
The King's Retribution
#17 - 2013-11-25 08:14:07 UTC
[Maelstrom, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Booster II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script / Targeting Range Script (used more often)

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Quake L / Tremor L / Fusion or equal to them L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Well, ammo depends on NPCs you're going to kill, same for drones. Quakes are a must as they shoot down frigates flying straight to you from 80-90 km range in one shot from 4 cannons (yes, I prefer two groups of cannons = faster kills of smaller targets)

Cannons DPS from 250 at 130 km to 530 at 60 km and even more on Quakes + drones. Most npcs can't even hit me cause of MJD. No fails on missions in this setup for two months. Even now, when I fly loki and tengu, I prefer this ship for missions with targets like Rashen Mysuna.
Lucas Padecain
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-11-25 18:36:08 UTC
Funillingus wrote:
The Djego wrote:
Funillingus wrote:

Yeah I don't have the power grid for that. When people link fits with adaptive invuln field I never know if they're meant to be swapped for mission specific hardeners, or just kept how they are. How would the target painter be used? Could I swap the rigs for 3x CCC? Would the 0.017 tracking make a large difference? I also don't know if I'd be comfortable spending that much on rigs. What are the Garde's for?

Also is the tempest any good for missions?


The Invus are omni hardeners that provide about 55% against everything, what can be better against npcs that deal more than 2 damage types(like angels) but are mostly useful if you don't want to swap them each time. They do need more cap than specific hardeners.

A target painter gives you technically a extra 30% tracking for your guns and drones(even more with skills) at medium range on the target that you are shooting, it doesn't stack with other tracking mods and you just have to activate it on the target. While a web would be better at close, you will not hit with artillery at sub 20km anyway and at medium range the main bottleneck for applied dps is tracking with artillery(even a 1200mm setup with enough tracking can be surprisingly effective since it will out damage T1 auto cannons at around 26km and provides good damage at 50km ranges).

Well you can use CCCs but for artillery I would try to get as much tracking as possible, since it is the major problem in pve with them, at least on hulls that can't control range and transversal to the target easy(like a nano cane, tornado or macharial).

Garde II are sentry drones, different to other drones they don't move to the target. Once launched they will sit next to you and fire from that position. The big advantage is that they deal instant damage(no flight time), do more than smalls and mediums, can take some hits(with good skills they can tank a hole wave on the shield while your ship takes no damage) and can be scooped instantly, meaning they are not prone to destruction like webed light or medium drones at range. The main point of sentry drones, especially on long range setups like beams, rails or artillery is that if your ship is in a position to hit the targets well you drones will also be able to hit well from there and the immensely help to improve the applied dps at medium range and with a bit of practise they are very good to snipe frigs at range(what is hard with artillery) and help to finish off targets in structure(since they have a much higher ROF and can finish the job while you put the main guns on the next target) what overall helps to get targets down before they come to close and get under artillery tracking.

The tempest can work with good skills and piloting(I flown a lot of plexes and L4 stuff in Low sec with a normal pvp fitted nano pest -> no active tank). However it is not particular good as new player ship.



Why core defense cap safeguards over CCC?


Forget the cap safeguards, get semiconductor memory cells. They're relatively expensive, but provide a stronger capacitor over time.

And as for the debate between arty vs autos, in my experience autos work just fine mostly due to better tracking. Biggest downside I've seen is they use a lot of ammo. Never tried atry though and I will be giving it a shot soon.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#19 - 2013-11-26 12:29:57 UTC
Funillingus wrote:



Why core defense cap safeguards over CCC?


They provide the better tank runtime with a limited amount of cap mods used(1-3) by reducing the cap use on the booster. They scale better without shield compensation 5, while CCCs scale worse without maxed cap skills. Normally, assuming you don't fit for permatank, you need a lot of tank early on, tanking the hole spawn while you need a lot less once most of the targets are dead. In this case you can boost longer with Safeguards while having a bit less cycles at the peak recharge point, compared to CCCs. However in my opinion this works better most of the time, since you can tank better while you take full agro and a bit worse once you cleared most of it.

They also use less calibration, what is useful if you want to fit 2 T2 weapon rigs.

Lucas Padecain wrote:

Forget the cap safeguards, get semiconductor memory cells. They're relatively expensive, but provide a stronger capacitor over time.


SMCs don't provide the stronger capacitor over time. They provide more cap to begin with(what also increases the absolute cap recharge, however less than CCCs) -> more cap to burn early on. The safeguards do exactly the same by reducing capacitor use of the booster, while performing better at the cap recharge point, since they reduce the cap use of your booster by 20%, while the SMCs don't increase your cap recharge by 20%. Also using smaller amounts of your cap at the peak recharge point makes cap management a lot easier, since you greatly reduce the risk falling under it by a single booster cycle.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Seriously Bored
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-11-26 15:19:36 UTC
The Djego wrote:

SMCs don't provide the stronger capacitor over time.


They actually do by virtue of the fact that time to reach full capacitor remains the same when using SMCs, which effectively buffs your peak cap regen rate.

I swapped from a CCC rig to an SMC rig after I looked at the stats and realized that the CCC only gave me 0.5 more peak cap/s. For a cap unstable setup, it's a very small tradeoff for 15% more cap to run a MWD plus shield booster longer at the start of the mission.