These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Warp Core Stab Rebalance
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#1 - 2013-11-22 00:58:04 UTC
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#2 - 2013-11-22 01:05:09 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.


Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks.

Massive Reduction in Lock time
Massive Reduction in Lock Range
Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit.

These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do.

Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs.

To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle.

Why do they need to be nerfed more?
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-11-22 01:24:19 UTC
-5/10
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-22 01:29:44 UTC
A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.

However I agree that the current penalties have very little effect on certain classes of ships, e.g. miners or industrials. How about a warp speed penalty? You can run away from a camp, but anyone actively chasing you will have an easier time catching up.
Davos Jovakko
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-11-22 01:34:56 UTC
Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-11-22 02:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Davos Jovakko wrote:
Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved.



it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution.


reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change.

In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this.


IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2013-11-22 02:31:21 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.

Sure, as long as the other penalties go away at the same time. I don't mind the only penalties being align time & warp speed.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#8 - 2013-11-22 02:33:37 UTC
I was actually thinking they should get a warp speed bonus... Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#9 - 2013-11-22 11:05:37 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
A module that's designed for running away shouldn't make your ship worse at running away.


Wrong
warp core stabs increase your ships capability at 1 aspect of running away: the warp core strength. Its actually logical the other aspects (warp speed, align time, agility, etc) get a penalty. See it like a lot of other modules that have an advantage but at the same time a disadvantage that influences kind of the same thing. MWD makes you faster, but increased sig still allows you to be hit easier. Shield extenders give more HP, but also increased sig. Armor plates give more HP, but make you slower and less agile.

+1 from me

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
novellus
The Special Snowflakes
#10 - 2013-11-22 11:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: novellus
I remember a recent discussion about how stabs are underutilized and should *increase* warp speed.

Nobody fits stabs unless they want to get away. Choosing not to engage means you have already lost, so in my opinion, this is making a useless module even more useless.

-1
Mag's
Azn Empire
#11 - 2013-11-22 11:36:19 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.


Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks.

Massive Reduction in Lock time
Massive Reduction in Lock Range
Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit.

These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do.

Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs.

To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle.

Why do they need to be nerfed more?
This.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#12 - 2013-11-22 12:24:36 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.


Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks.

Massive Reduction in Lock time
Massive Reduction in Lock Range
Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit.

These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do.

Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs.

To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle.

Why do they need to be nerfed more?
This.


Like I described things usually have a drawback that affects the same category they buff/provide a bonus to. With stabs this isnt the case.

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#13 - 2013-11-22 13:06:30 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Davos Jovakko wrote:
Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved.



it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution.


reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change.

In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this.


IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do.

FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling.

the "added" content had one goal, create pvp opportunitys, yet because of the WCS, it fail at that, because while the current wcs drawback seems OK to me, the FW plex are not demanding enought making a wcs fitted ship able to run them.

solution, make them powerfull enought so that a wcs fitting cannot complete them, or just deny access if ship has a wcs fited.

do that, and you won't hear about wcs anymore.

they didn't changed since long time, and before this FW iteration, were not a problem.

conclusion, the problem is with FW design, not the wcs
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#14 - 2013-11-22 13:09:34 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I was actually thinking they should get a warp speed bonus... Twisted

yup, -50% Twisted
Master Sergeant MacRobert
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#15 - 2013-11-22 13:22:01 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
Zan Shiro wrote:
Davos Jovakko wrote:
Just make it so FW Complexes won't allow you in if you have a stab equipped... There. Problem solved.



it was the added content changes that got more people into FW. make it so one of the few ways to avoid pirates and FW'ers and your numbers would drop again. Great solution.


reality check....when people are out bearing they do what they can to avoid pvp. If you don't like this adapt or find a new game....wh's and and 0.0 this does not change.

In 0.0 being seen on kb's in dead rattters is bad. It skylines you as being an idiot by and large unless you have a legit bad luck story . You safe up early and often to avoid this.


IN wh's you don't wonder if the hit on d-scan is 1 solo player floating about or one of many hunting you. You gtfo, run your own scans not tanking sleepers at the same time and then decide what to do.

FW is about PVP, therefore, doing FW with in mind avoiding PVP is puzzling.

the "added" content had one goal, create pvp opportunitys, yet because of the WCS, it fail at that, because while the current wcs drawback seems OK to me, the FW plex are not demanding enought making a wcs fitted ship able to run them.

solution, make them powerfull enought so that a wcs fitting cannot complete them, or just deny access if ship has a wcs fited.

do that, and you won't hear about wcs anymore.

they didn't changed since long time, and before this FW iteration, were not a problem.

conclusion, the problem is with FW design, not the wcs



Agree, but he has a point (doh - point). FW is one of the few places where you can PvE in a PvP fit. There is no excuse to fly with warp core stabilisers unless you are subscribing to play only part of FW. An adjustment to wcs might be called for, but not to align time.

I think the most appropriate penalty to wcs should be that the number of lockable targets is reduced to 0. Although drone boats would still be able to get around this with agressive settings on drones. Then by fitting wcs you choose not to be fit for fighting.

I agree the FW sites and the whole of FW needs another iteration. FW needs a whole number of passes to change things including, imo, banning either stealth bombers or all cloaking ships from FW mission sites.

"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#16 - 2013-11-22 14:01:25 UTC
When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.

It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#17 - 2013-11-22 14:10:21 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
When you fit WCS, you are not putting yourself out there to avoid PVP. You actually fit that module when you expect someone to engage you. Just because you make the tactical decision to run away, doesn't mean you have avoided PVP, because you actually put yourself into the position where someone will probably engage you.

It's the other persons fault for not equipping enough points to counter the WCS. When it comes to mining ships, I always assume they have WCS on. When I popped a skiff with a friend that had an assault frigate and a T1 frig as an escort, we allowed the 2 frigates to escape because we were not sure if the skiff had WCS on, so we just kept our points on the skiff and forced the other ships off grid.


First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP
Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs.
Because stabs are a cowards module.

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-11-22 16:13:53 UTC
novellus wrote:
I remember a recent discussion about how stabs are underutilized and should *increase* warp speed.

Nobody fits stabs unless they want to get away. Choosing not to engage means you have already lost, so in my opinion, this is making a useless module even more useless.

-1

Choosing not to engage is a game choice, making extrication from the situation a win. Doesn't give you a KM, but then the game doesn't revolve around you.
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-11-22 16:19:00 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:


First you say stabs doesnt always mean wanting to avoid PVP
Then you give an example where you confirmed the skiff had no intention of PVPing and and you assumed he had stabs.
Because stabs are a cowards module.

Reading between the lines here I'm getting the impression you are hurt by having targets warp off into the distance waving their bare WCS'd arses in your face. It's your fault for not having enough point strength to catch every ship in the sky, not the other pilot for not wanting to give you a KM.

Your tears are delicious, thank you for sharing them with us.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-11-22 16:32:15 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
I already know this will be flamed by those that love to fit stabs to hide from wars.

But in light of the new changes to warp speed how about we add a real penalty to warp core stabs and the stacking thereof.

I propose a nerf to align time and warp speed.

So if you stack tons of stabs you will eventually have a ship that warps like a freighter.

Flame on.


Warp core stabs already have boatloads of drawbacks.

Massive Reduction in Lock time
Massive Reduction in Lock Range
Serious fitting requirements making them non-trivial to fit.

These penalties make PvPing with stabilizers very difficult to do.

Your suggestions: Nerf Warp Speed & Align time, are aimed at limit people trying to GTFO with stabs.

To be honest, I don't care if people fit their ships to GTFO with stabs, as that's the main purpose of warp core stabilizers (and they can still be hindered by bubbles, infinite point hictors, or enough tackle.

Why do they need to be nerfed more?
This.


Like I described things usually have a drawback that affects the same category they buff/provide a bonus to. With stabs this isnt the case.


Yes but if you traded those drawbacks, they'd be usable on a combat boat thereby forcing everyone to either scram or double point - thereby causing a crazy shakeup in the metagame.
123Next page