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Which Maurader?

Author
The Nerf Bat
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-11-20 19:38:13 UTC
Just starting out, but I wanted to know what would be the best Maurader to train up in order to do lvl 4 missions?
Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#2 - 2013-11-20 20:01:15 UTC
which ever one you already have t2 large weapons for and battleship 5 for. Big smile

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

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The Nerf Bat
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-11-20 20:53:24 UTC
Batelle wrote:
which ever one you already have t2 large weapons for and battleship 5 for. Big smile

Point is I am just starting out, so I don't have skills up for any yet. Is there one that is clearly better than the other?
Lord Lojak
United Research and Development
#4 - 2013-11-20 21:03:59 UTC
honstly depends. but ill try as best i can to fill in from my POV.

i tend to favor shield tanks due to all the dmg mods u can slamm in the lows while still maitaining a high tank. this narrows it down to the vargur and the golem.

i picked the golem over the vargur (narrowly mind you) due to cruise missiles can hit something 2 km just as easily as 128 km out. and only thing it cant handle easily is frigs and thats what light drones work really well at.

now u put the brand new mobile tractor unit in the hold with the ammo and slap a bastion and 3 salvagers in the highs and off you go.

if it wasnt for the bullet nobody would fear the the gun

Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#5 - 2013-11-20 21:25:30 UTC
Lord Lojak wrote:
bla bla





damn carebears can't even think of the right ship to use, or at least why the reasons they stated are irrelevant.

Welcome to Rubicon!
First, all Marauders can tank on shield with ease now. Some have bonuses, some don't. Still getting a 800 DPS tank on a Kronos with Tech2 / Meta 4 items. Leaves 7 lowslots for damage and application.
Second, they are MJD bonus'd. Why would you *ever* have something up close to you? This makes Turret Rauders better than Missile Rauders, because if range is big enough, they will blap frigs. with one gun.
Third, there is this thing, this... i don't know, tent! Like, you deploy it, and in your vast cargohold, you have all the modules you thought you might need at some point, maybe, like, once in a lifetime, because, well, it fits into the cargo, and you could use it for refitting. For example for a rack of closerange guns. And a rack of Longrange guns. And a rack of tank. And a rack of fullgank. And Salvagers, 8 of them. And tractor beams, ... also 8 of them. F*ck the Tractor-Thing, you're a rauder, your tractors work better, faster, and you salvage all the stuff right after you make the pile. You are a Noctis. You are a Dreadnaught. You are a refitting carrier, you are whatever you feel like.

This leads to 4th:

What damage would you want to shoot? well, for missions, it's variable what damage you need to deal. Lasers and Railgungs fall short because of this.

Rise, Vargur, son of Naglfar, King of PvE!


Lord Lojak
United Research and Development
#6 - 2013-11-20 21:58:14 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
bla bla





damn carebears can't even think of the right ship to use, or at least why the reasons they stated are irrelevant.

Welcome to Rubicon!
First, all Marauders can tank on shield with ease now. Some have bonuses, some don't. Still getting a 800 DPS tank on a Kronos with Tech2 / Meta 4 items. Leaves 7 lowslots for damage and application.
Second, they are MJD bonus'd. Why would you *ever* have something up close to you? This makes Turret Rauders better than Missile Rauders, because if range is big enough, they will blap frigs. with one gun.
Third, there is this thing, this... i don't know, tent! Like, you deploy it, and in your vast cargohold, you have all the modules you thought you might need at some point, maybe, like, once in a lifetime, because, well, it fits into the cargo, and you could use it for refitting. For example for a rack of closerange guns. And a rack of Longrange guns. And a rack of tank. And a rack of fullgank. And Salvagers, 8 of them. And tractor beams, ... also 8 of them. F*ck the Tractor-Thing, you're a rauder, your tractors work better, faster, and you salvage all the stuff right after you make the pile. You are a Noctis. You are a Dreadnaught. You are a refitting carrier, you are whatever you feel like.

This leads to 4th:

What damage would you want to shoot? well, for missions, it's variable what damage you need to deal. Lasers and Railgungs fall short because of this.

Rise, Vargur, son of Naglfar, King of PvE!




i dont use a MJD. i really dont see the point in them and my prefernce is id rather sit there and face tank everything.
vargur is a damn fine ship but i have a lazy way of doing things hence the golem suited me better.

and as for the tractor thing? rats dont target it, has a longer tractor range than ones on the mara, auto loots. and leaves all the wrecks in a nice pretty ball for easy cleaning while im still makin wrecks. why wouldnt i use it?

if it wasnt for the bullet nobody would fear the the gun

Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#7 - 2013-11-21 00:05:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Lord Lojak wrote:
i dont use a MJD. i really dont see the point in them and my prefernce is id rather sit there and face tank everything.

For missions where groups of NPCs start way back (~100km), the MJD is nice for jumping in on top of them (or just closer to them, if they're more like 70km away). Then, face tank at will.

Lord Lojak wrote:
and as for the tractor thing? rats dont target it, has a longer tractor range than ones on the mara, auto loots. and leaves all the wrecks in a nice pretty ball for easy cleaning while im still makin wrecks. why wouldnt i use it?

Just curious, haven't tested one of these yet. How does it prioritize wrecks to grab? Closest? Farthest? If farthest, I guess I can see getting some utility out of it for when I have to shoot something >48km away, but otherwise, it's just going to be fighting me for wrecks.

Oh, and on topic to the OP... I think they all work pretty well. Some possibly a bit better than others, but for as long as they take to train into, if you're just starting out I'd recommend doing a little research on the races in general and picking what sounds most interesting. Your goals may very well change before you get there, so you may as well pick something you can get excited about along the way.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2013-11-21 01:56:32 UTC
The Golem and Vargur are the most flexible (Paladin is limited to EM/Therm damage, Kronos to therm/kinetic.) The Golem and Vargur are also shield tanked which is nominally better for level 4s.

Golem requires pressing F1 and T2-F5 for TPs, whereas the Vargur requires pressing F1 (or F2 if you split your guns into two groups.) Neither one requires moving. The Vargur has DPS loss to falloff but 3 second gun cycles whereas the Golem has 8 second cycles, so the Vargur suffers less from overkill.

IIRC, it will be faster to train up T2 ACs than Cruise missiles. (Someone else(tm) has done the numbers.)

Meh, fly whatever you want.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Lord Lojak
United Research and Development
#9 - 2013-11-21 02:19:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Lojak
Zor'katar wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
i dont use a MJD. i really dont see the point in them and my prefernce is id rather sit there and face tank everything.

For missions where groups of NPCs start way back (~100km), the MJD is nice for jumping in on top of them (or just closer to them, if they're more like 70km away). Then, face tank at will.

Lord Lojak wrote:
and as for the tractor thing? rats dont target it, has a longer tractor range than ones on the mara, auto loots. and leaves all the wrecks in a nice pretty ball for easy cleaning while im still makin wrecks. why wouldnt i use it?

Just curious, haven't tested one of these yet. How does it prioritize wrecks to grab? Closest? Farthest? If farthest, I guess I can see getting some utility out of it for when I have to shoot something >48km away, but otherwise, it's just going to be fighting me for wrecks.



from my usage of it it doesnt prioritise it just seems to randomly grab them but thats y i pop it out b4 i even open fire.
it will grab wrecks as they are made

if it wasnt for the bullet nobody would fear the the gun

Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-11-21 03:49:25 UTC
Paladin and Amarr ships in general.
fuer0n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-11-21 11:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: fuer0n
torp golem with a mjd, jump into the middle and bastillion up throw out a mobile tractor. everything is close so it doesnt take ages to salvage. 2 salvagers and a tractor beam for the rare times your waiting on the mobile tractor. fit 2 tech 2 tp and not even frigs are a problem.

op you probably know but first rule in eve is don't fly what you can't afford to lose.


mjd are not just for kiting and i havent had a mission yet that i can't mjd to within torp range, the extra 20% range when bastillioned up is great .
marVLs
#12 - 2013-11-21 11:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Depends.

Considering time/isk effi for every type of rats: Golem
Considering easiness/ less gimmick: Golem (cruise missiles with rigors, yup not using TP bonus)
EM rats: Paladin
Serpentis space: Kronos (btw blasters rocks, You will have good usage of vindi and sentry domi so worth training into gayyylenta BSs)
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-11-21 14:56:37 UTC
Zor'katar wrote:

Just curious, haven't tested one of these yet. How does it prioritize wrecks to grab? Closest? Farthest? If farthest, I guess I can see getting some utility out of it for when I have to shoot something >48km away, but otherwise, it's just going to be fighting me for wrecks.


Last week on sisi it pulled them in closest to furthest, pretty sure it wouldn't have changed on TQ.
Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-21 15:11:10 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Lord Lojak wrote:
bla bla





damn carebears can't even think of the right ship to use, or at least why the reasons they stated are irrelevant.

Welcome to Rubicon!
First, all Marauders can tank on shield with ease now. Some have bonuses, some don't. Still getting a 800 DPS tank on a Kronos with Tech2 / Meta 4 items. Leaves 7 lowslots for damage and application.
Second, they are MJD bonus'd. Why would you *ever* have something up close to you? This makes Turret Rauders better than Missile Rauders, because if range is big enough, they will blap frigs. with one gun.
Third, there is this thing, this... i don't know, tent! Like, you deploy it, and in your vast cargohold, you have all the modules you thought you might need at some point, maybe, like, once in a lifetime, because, well, it fits into the cargo, and you could use it for refitting. For example for a rack of closerange guns. And a rack of Longrange guns. And a rack of tank. And a rack of fullgank. And Salvagers, 8 of them. And tractor beams, ... also 8 of them. F*ck the Tractor-Thing, you're a rauder, your tractors work better, faster, and you salvage all the stuff right after you make the pile. You are a Noctis. You are a Dreadnaught. You are a refitting carrier, you are whatever you feel like.

This leads to 4th:

What damage would you want to shoot? well, for missions, it's variable what damage you need to deal. Lasers and Railgungs fall short because of this.

Rise, Vargur, son of Naglfar, King of PvE!




THIS! If any of you plan on flying Dreads anytime soon, learn to do this.
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-11-21 15:13:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mer88
i would avoid getting the golem. Stick to a gun boat so your implants and gunnery skills will mostly benefit all 3 races. Golem is fine if you want easy time but is not the top performer once you have good skills due to limits of being a missile boat. There are certain in game mechanics that limits its kill speed. ie cant kill frigates fast, mass overkill, losing volleys for torpedo but worst of all only do about 1/4-1/2 damage if shooting at anything at 200m/s or higher. these are all the things that missile boat has to live with. Cruise missile has the same problem except you rarely lose volleys due to faster speed but you have to deal with defenders.

no amount of training or pimp modules or paper dps can overcome the problem i listed for missiles.

missiles are excellent for some missions but not good for others. Guns are excellent for all missions once you have top skills.

For gunboat, i think kronos is looking very attractive atm being able to use both blaster and rail guns effectively. Vargur use autocannon only because artillery suck very much. paladin mostly pulse lasers and you have to stick to amarr space.
also i tend to not group the guns at all so i have f1 -f4 for each gun.

Golem = Musle car all big horse power , but cant perform at the track
Paladin = F1 only good at clean race tracks
Vargur = Rally car good all arounder
Kronos = Ferrari its beautiful and great for almost all conditions
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-11-21 18:42:26 UTC
Are you sure that a marauder is the best kind of ship for you ?

Sure, they might be the best at running level 4 missions, but I find their playstyle of sitting still and blasting away to be a boring one. Also, I've got plan of leaving high sec at some point and it seems better to stick my skillpoints into ships I know will be useful in PvP, than into marauders which don't seem that useful as PvP ships.

Which means I'm looking at a pirate battleship, not a marauder.
SkyMarshaller
The Vendunari
End of Life
#17 - 2013-11-21 21:33:21 UTC
Nice to see someone who looks at this game from a long term perspective.

If you intend to use Marauders for L4 missions, you should also factor in that you will probably become bored with these missions within 6-12 months & will be looking for something else to do. With that in mind you should perhaps look at a secondary goal/target. In my case that was incursions. That's probably the next logical step up from L4 missions, unless of course you decide to pursue a PvP career or even something else.

Bearing in mind most "high-end" incursion communities now fly exclusively with pirate battleships (shield & non-missiles boats actually), you should probably tailor your skills accordingly. From there it really boils down to personal preference as to what you'd like to fly. I love my Nightmare, but I don't mind the Machariel also. Vindicators are also heavily favoured.

As other people have alluded to you should train to kill the rats in your area of space or train towards something that can deal with any of them. Personally I'd train towards a Paladin & a Vargur - you could then use whichever one you wanted as appropriate. This would also give you a good grounding to get into pirate battleships when the time came.

Good luck.
I Accidentally YourShip
How Now Brown Cow
#18 - 2013-11-21 23:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: I Accidentally YourShip
While damage selection is important, shooting the wrong ammo type at a rat isn't completely ineffectual, especially when you have raw DPS to compensate in the case of a tach paladin.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtfDk1r74dw0dE94Z0txVWpkU1ZCdHRlRl9kdFF3UkE&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Forgive me for not having golem statistics, I do not fly missile ships. It shouldn't be too hard to add yourself, all of the formulas are easily expandable.

This is a little spreadsheet I have made that I use to calculate the effectiveness of weapon systems at different ranges. It helps give a tangible value on what changing damage type does for you. The current NPC stats in there are a guristas battleship. As you can see, a rail kronos does approximately 17% more dps than a tach paladin against guristas. And this is best case scenario for the kronos while it is next to worst case for the paladin, only an angel battleship would be worse.

Even if you have to pick one, you don't have to pick the vargur/golem depending on the space you mission in.

Edit: The kronos DPS value also includes warden DPS (though it's simulated like it's shooting AM) so depending on how much you use your drones on your kronos, it may be less.
I Accidentally YourShip
How Now Brown Cow
#19 - 2013-11-21 23:16:32 UTC
SkyMarshaller wrote:
Nice to see someone who looks at this game from a long term perspective.

If you intend to use Marauders for L4 missions, you should also factor in that you will probably become bored with these missions within 6-12 months & will be looking for something else to do. With that in mind you should perhaps look at a secondary goal/target. In my case that was incursions. That's probably the next logical step up from L4 missions, unless of course you decide to pursue a PvP career or even something else.

Bearing in mind most "high-end" incursion communities now fly exclusively with pirate battleships (shield & non-missiles boats actually), you should probably tailor your skills accordingly. From there it really boils down to personal preference as to what you'd like to fly. I love my Nightmare, but I don't mind the Machariel also. Vindicators are also heavily favoured.

As other people have alluded to you should train to kill the rats in your area of space or train towards something that can deal with any of them. Personally I'd train towards a Paladin & a Vargur - you could then use whichever one you wanted as appropriate. This would also give you a good grounding to get into pirate battleships when the time came.

Good luck.


With the Machariel mentioned that it is being looked at, I would probably recommend the Nightmare over it. So the Paladin.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#20 - 2013-11-21 23:39:09 UTC
The Nerf Bat wrote:
Just starting out, but I wanted to know what would be the best Maurader to train up in order to do lvl 4 missions?


If you are just starting, any ship that is clearly better NOW will not be clearly better by the time you can fly it properly. Choose the one you think looks the coolest and work towards that one.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

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