EVE General Discussion

lol.. I know that feeling

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http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility


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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online

There's a huge list of things that everyone wants and the server can only support so may people. The fact that CCP have obviously got a better feel of what the people in the game want as opposed to what the threads in GD say "we" want is immense.

It might not be what YOU want but its clearly working slowly on the general population.

I still cannot understand this trend today where people will continue to play, and in the case of EvE pay for, a game they repeatedly express dislike, disdain or outright hate towards. I stopped enjoying COD when they instituted massive lag compensation, and so I stopped playing. I didn't continue playing and rage on their forums, I just stopped. Yet the vast majority of detractors continued playing, even continued buying the add-ons, while complaining about it. I would like to know why. Why do you consume entertainment that you don't enjoy? Do you do so with all forms of entertainment? Do you watch TV shows that you hate in order to yell at the screen? I believe most of you would be displeased with EvE regardless if CCP added, removed and changed all the things you gripe about. If they removed CONCORD you'd complain that they turned the game into a third-person space shooter. If they hardened their servers to handle 10,000 players on grid you'd argue they were favoring large alliances. If they remove multiple accounts, you'd say they were making the game too hard for people that can't play all the time. People say they want something fixed, but in reality they just want to complain, to blame their failures on something or to make themselves appear smarter than the professionals behind a game without equal.

Here is an easy way to tell that Rubicon isn't a repeat of Incarna: CCP isn't flying the CSM in for an emergency summit to stem the tide of people fleeing the game like they did after Space Barbies went live.

For me, this development is one that I wholeheartedly support.

This is equipment that you can dump into the space truck and take to different places. This actively offers a toe-hold in space, where you can have a small base that supports your operations in a system/region, when you have access to nothing else in that space.

It offers the opportunity and enticement for taking more risk. Some people think this is excellent for hi-sec. To me this is perfect material for 0.0 and wormholes, where you may have nothing else to work with. The cost is trivial and the risk is manageable. This equipment is what should have been available in 2003. It would have made a far better lure for getting people into the game, but I don't mean to second-guess the 2003 team. This is what you do when you work so long and hard on digital nirvana, that the pieces start to fall into place.

There are entire walls of philosophy in this thread about how liveable CCP's position is, how good/bad its offerings are, how awful/passable/great this or that release was.

How about we all just enjoy this great new material and find ways to impress our image upon the fabric of New Eden? Let's start with that simple ambition.

This is a great expansion. To anyone who says it's not perfect, I say: if you wait until everything is precisely right to do something, you're never going to do a whole lot. We have never been a species that needed perfection to get going. We used the tools we had to move forward. We started with sharp sticks and rocks to kill something we wanted to eat and look where we are now: we're in the very embodiment of luxury, furiously debating whether we got enough new shinies from the makers of our virtual playground. If -that- is not progress born from imperfection I beg you to tell me what is.

Quit yapping, get your ass into a boat, load up the gear and undock already.

The difference between your example and the EvE forums is that in yours the people stopped playing. Here, on these forums, the people that I first saw complaining about EvE, first saw expressing anger and hate towards the game and CCP five months ago when I started playing are the same as do so today. Did they all buy a 10 year subscription that is just now running out? I somehow doubt that. I also doubt that they've continued to pay for the game because they hope to see improvement(that is, what they see as improvement). I think they just like to complain. They enjoy the argument for the sake of arguing, otherwise you would see them change their opinions when presented with logical counter arguments. Instead they will forever stand their ground, like a child screaming "he did it first!" Of course this isn't directed at everybody in this thread. While I disagree with VV and Tippia at times they are both intelligence people that will amend their views when presented with appropriate evidence to the contrary. Some others just cross there arms, clench their jaw and repeat "uh-uh" until the other person gives up, at which time they declare victory.

It's not the first post because the question comes up again and again, and the simple fact of the matter is that the one expansion we've had that had a clear highsec PvE focus flopped miserably. This as opposed to the expansions that focused on providing tools for… oh… everyone, which have generally been met with a great deal of success.

The rest still doesn't make sense. What is my “politcal bloc”? Where do you get the idea that I blame PvE as a cause for decline? Apocrypha had plenty of PvE in it, and was a resounding success (technical legacy aside). It can be an entirely kosher way of developing EVE expansions, if it's done in a way as to fit the mould of EVE content in general: focus on the tools to let players create content; don't force-feed the content itself. You keep piling straw up so high that you've completely lost sight of what I'm arguing.


So the same as me then. This still leaves the question of why you're so hostile in agreeing with me.

I'm guessing is that it's because you've assumed an agenda and motivation I really don't have and had that assumption colour all your interpretations of what I'm saying…


Unfortunately, no, it really isn't. Just look at all the people dismissing some of the post-Incarna expansions as mere patches, when they've provided more content than some of the expansions of old they're referencing as examples of what should be done instead. The forum is littered with them. Sure, the people saying these things often get dope-slapped for it, and that's heart-warming to see, but the sentiment is still out there and it is often based on either incorrect assumptions of what counts as content around here or on misunderstandings of what has happened in the past.

so many bittervets in this thread...

There's one thing people should consider when they're saying "But they've done it in the past! They've released a LOT of content in one expansion, not just... patched the game again!". Let's take a look at Black Ops shall we, because they haven't been touched by the magic finger of Fozzie that makes things better.

- Only recently their bridging range was increased to a point it's no longer "JDC5 or don't bother flying a blops".
- They're reskins (used to be quite shoddy ones) of T1 battleships
- Their bonuses are simply hodgepodge. Panther is a battleship with a velocity bonus. Sin has an agility bonus (and is a cloaky droneboat, giving it an annoying habit of having drones on field when there's a need to leg it right here right now). You get the drill.

Magical "3 month" Apocrypha? T3's are still broken. They were "designed" as the pinnacle of versatility, instead they began to outshine some T2 ships in their roles. And that is after many, many fixes. The sub refitting looks kind of like a hack job that until recently made it impossible for them to refit in space. Oh and if you do trawl through the old forums, you'll see many patches brought with themselves issues that took months to fix (or more).

Nowadays it seems CCP thinks about what they're doing, actually having less bugs slip through the cracks and balancing things properly. Deploying things in small numbers and watching the community break it, then likely adjusting the plan. And that's good.

That said, a lot of people pull out the "Hisec is paying customers! CCP should cater to us!". It's kind of like jumping up, waving your hands and saying "We're the favorite players!". So, why CCP shouldn't make things safer, bah, they should add more means to generate conflict?

First, take a look at articles concerning EVE Online in news.

- Battle of Asakai was covered as a giant battle sparked by a single error backed up with a lot of bad calls.
- Disbanding and fall of the Band of Brothers
- Burn Jita
- Guiding Hand Social Club's murder of the Apocalypse Imperial Issue (I do believe that was the ship, my memory may be shoddy here)

There weren't any news concerning Joe the Carebear who plays single player. If we're talking money, let's be brutal: it's the ~ebil cawtels~ that generate ads. Their exploits make the gaming news (or news in general!) and have potential new players look at them and say: "wow, there's a game in which players can do that? I have to try this!"

Second: Conflict feeds the Cycle.
As a sandbox, EVE is built on greed. The greed of its players. Latest example? Fountain War.

For those who do not pay attention to 0.0 politics (and I can't blame them) the war didn't erupt because a bloc got bored or just felt like kicking more puppies. No. The CFC based its income largely on mining Technetium - having formed OTEC to control the price and fuel its SRP (and not only). With Technetium prices going down, CFC had a choice: start cutting things or look for alternative income streams.

Having the firepower advantage to invade, they chose the latter and invaded Fountain. The Fountain War erupted over moon minerals and a shift to rental income that came afterwards. It generated a lot of content and not just for "omg tidi blob" - fighting attracts vultures of various kinds and flushes cowards out of stations.

What many need to learn is to stop viewing themselves as outside of said cycle. We're all stuck in the same monopoly land of thievery, backstabbing (and front-punching) but each of us has a role to play here. The wall to break is big and scary, so it's best to call some friends - and since heads are poor at breaking walls, make friends not killmail with an industrialist that has a T2 Hammer BPC and will provide you all with hammers at a discounted price. Now you're properly armed to call it even with the damned wall.

And the best part of it is the fact Sandbox is so unpredictable. With assets having actual value (you lose it you lose it, that's done!) you either fight for what you own or lose it.

(I'd like to thank industrial corporations for being there when needed. If it wasn't for my cries 'A Zealot! My ISK for a Zealot!' being answered with a shiney new Zealot, I would've missed the November Massacre in Syndicate. And you guys generally make life less painful. CCP please look at what those guys need in terms of industry so that we get more of them.)

- Sov is a giant clusterfuck that costs a lot of ISK and effort while providing small value for line members in comparison to other income streams - like FW farming, wormholes or hisec mission running.
- The investment cost and slow rate of return are a huge deterrent when it comes to new groups trying to carve out some space for themselves.
- Structures have massive amount of hitpoints and it's very common that the defender is long gone due to crumbling morale (and sometimes even a failcascade) before the infrastructure falls, leaving the attacker to weeks of burning through structures.

So yeah it kind of needs some serious love.