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Why bother with economics at all?

Author
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#21 - 2013-11-20 19:59:37 UTC
this sounds like one of those You mad bro threads.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#22 - 2013-11-20 19:59:50 UTC
Again, notice the posters after the OP.

What is more likely...that the OP is legit or that it is an alt of one of the people so quick to post after the OP?

Alavaria Fera - What do you think about this? Blink
Shadow Love
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#23 - 2013-11-20 20:19:08 UTC
I love the "minerals I mine are free" people, because they make all the spreadsheet nerds mad. It's amusing to see the people that play the game solely to make as many .01 isks as possible dumbfounded by those who simply want to watch the world burn, and can't do a damn thing about it.
Nolen Cadmar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-11-20 20:23:43 UTC
Shadow Love wrote:
I love the "minerals I mine are free" people, because they make all the spreadsheet nerds mad. It's amusing to see the people that play the game solely to make as many .01 isks as possible dumbfounded by those who simply want to watch the world burn, and can't do a damn thing about it.


Indeed. As an obvious spreadsheet nerd, it annoys me. But having many different player mentalities is what makes EVE so unique and fun...at least for me.

Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services

Pre-made spreadsheets available covering market, manufacturing and more!

Custom requests welcome!

Sheet Screenshots

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#25 - 2013-11-20 20:25:30 UTC
Shadow Love wrote:
I love the "minerals I mine are free" people, because they make all the spreadsheet nerds mad. It's amusing to see the people that play the game solely to make as many .01 isks as possible dumbfounded by those who simply want to watch the world burn, and can't do a damn thing about it.


yes because if we know anything about clueless miners, its that they love to watch the world burn Roll

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-11-20 20:26:15 UTC
clearly a stealth nerf afk cloaking thread

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#27 - 2013-11-20 20:30:11 UTC
Shadow Love wrote:
I love the "minerals I mine are free" people, because they make all the spreadsheet nerds mad. It's amusing to see the people that play the game solely to make as many .01 isks as possible dumbfounded by those who simply want to watch the world burn, and can't do a damn thing about it.


Oh, we can, we buy their stuff at 50% below build value and resell it at 30% above market value :)

(I think you are mixing up spreadsheeters for industry with spreadsheeters for trade....the indy bunnies dislike stuff being sold below build cost.....traders dont care about the build cost, only about the difference between buy and sell)
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#28 - 2013-11-20 20:34:12 UTC
Psyue Mi wrote:
Why bother with science and trade and planetary management when its not worth the time you spend?
Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.
Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?
Why bother with planetary management when the customs offices remove any possibility of making a profit when spending the time?
With this latest r@pe (oh yeah, when all the supplies you had in the customs offices disappeared) of planetary supplies and materials, why would anyone bother to do anything but ship combat?



Transitionary periods right after every major patch are to be expected and planned for, or at the very least, avoided.
Post transitionary period, if something is not profitable enough, less people will do it, until it becomes profitable again, almost exactly as profitable as before the patch, with a few exceptions every now and then, but seldom major ones.
Basically, nothing really changes all that much as long as you ride out the bumpy post-patch period (if you would have been cunning and "on the ball" enough, you could have made a tidy profit just from those bumps themselves).

CCP doesn't "set" your profitability - the mass actions of you and all other players do that just fine.
CCP merely tweak the ratios which allow more or less people to participate at a certain profitability level, no more, no less.
RAW23
#29 - 2013-11-20 20:34:25 UTC
Psyue Mi wrote:
Why bother with science and trade and planetary management when its not worth the time you spend?

Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.

Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?

Why bother with planetary management when the customs offices remove any possibility of making a profit when spending the time?

With this latest r@pe (oh yeah, when all the supplies you had in the customs offices disappeared) of planetary supplies and materials, why would anyone bother to do anything but ship combat?

Really poor choices coming from the developers/management.

As a 6 year player, I'm just about done.

The game is no longer worth my time and efforts.


The economy ... you are doing it wrong.

Small margins multiplied by high volumes can equal huge amounts of isk. As to the percentage chances in invention, the percentages are known and you just have to factor the failure % into you build cost so it is spread over the items. Successes and failures will average out pretty quickly and the overall long-term patterns are entirely predictable.

You also say trade is not worth the time! Trading is the single easiest route to isk in this game.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-11-20 20:39:52 UTC
Why bother with anything? All happiness is fleeting and we live in an uncaring universe devoid of purpose and meaning, children of a dead god.
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#31 - 2013-11-20 20:44:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Psyue Mi wrote:
Why bother with science and trade and planetary management when its not worth the time you spend?

Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.

Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?

Why bother with planetary management when the customs offices remove any possibility of making a profit when spending the time?

With this latest r@pe (oh yeah, when all the supplies you had in the customs offices disappeared) of planetary supplies and materials, why would anyone bother to do anything but ship combat?

Really poor choices coming from the developers/management.

As a 6 year player, I'm just about done.

The game is no longer worth my time and efforts.


Sounds like "EVE-midlife crisis" to me...
May you find peace...

To me, this game is still a MMO - this game is about social interactions. This game offers a good "playground" for people to find together, form tight bonds and friendships, and to achieve same goals and pursue same interests - deepening the friendships and relations to other persons.
If you missed this and spent your last 6 years to run after ISK, well, then you can see obviously now that "money does not make you happy". You cannot have a deep and trusting relationship with cyber-money.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-11-20 20:45:56 UTC
I understand the charm of making stuff, i do.
I ran a hisec pos for research and copying. Fueled the damn thing with PI from 9 jumps away in an 0.9 system. Actually made labs from PI scratch, took ages. Did the numbers, pretty much worked out to doing it at a loss. Null PI is so fat you can't see around it.

I understand the charm of breaking stuff, i do.
From tactics that let me drop a thrasher in range of a dramiel, to one-shotting ceptors in a sniping oracool. Flying logi in a gang, swarming out for home def fleets, using perches to jump tourists. Structure bashes, bubble camps, station timers i am your x monkey.

Where you lose me is the isk space money stuff. I'm time poor, i can't devote 2 hrs to grinding space money. I've done some PVE fleet ups for interests sake but if i want isk i buy a couple plex and sell em, only had to do it a few times thanks to SRP and the aforementioned null PI but you knowmsayin.
I remember my first million salvaging wrecks, hitting 40 million doing missions, hitting 800 million shooting npc haulers. After that i was cured of the whole income thing. You set up some faucets, fiddle with em from time to time and you log in to have fun.

Enjoy my wallotext, these threads about waah muh munniez are a drag. Isk is a means not an end.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Nuela
WoT Misfits
#33 - 2013-11-20 20:47:38 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Why bother with anything? All happiness is fleeting and we live in an uncaring universe devoid of purpose and meaning, children of a dead god.


{Sob!}Oops

Stop reminding me!
Shadow Love
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#34 - 2013-11-20 20:51:12 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Shadow Love wrote:
I love the "minerals I mine are free" people, because they make all the spreadsheet nerds mad. It's amusing to see the people that play the game solely to make as many .01 isks as possible dumbfounded by those who simply want to watch the world burn, and can't do a damn thing about it.


yes because if we know anything about clueless miners, its that they love to watch the world burn Roll


U mad at my industry ganks bruh?
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#35 - 2013-11-20 20:56:39 UTC
Shadow Love wrote:
those who simply want to watch the world burn
Not having a clue what you're doing is a far cry from having more of a clue than most.

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment

x1984x
Regrediens
Death Legion of Capybaras
#36 - 2013-11-20 21:29:52 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Ironically for you, the abysmal returns on anything industry related is precisely because of the ridiculously productive conditions in hisec. When everyone can mass-produce with ease and plexed alt accounts, this drives the returns to indy play into the mud, leaving profitable indy to the most vile of spreadsheet nerds with 20 accounts and the complete lack of social awareness requisite to point and click yourself into blissful oblivion in your mom's basement.

The best possible hope for returning indy play to a proftable endeavor for the average player is to decouple it from the near-perfect safety and manufacturing capacity that allows for vast economies of scale. When individual players making individual decisions while cooperating and competing with other players decides the profitability of indy play, then you will see the returns to such play rise appropriately.

They are addressing the issues with indy play, just not in the way the average joe hisec would imagine




Well said.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-11-20 21:32:39 UTC
Psyue Mi wrote:

Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.

Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?
.


Oo

I dont know.. i make a very good profit on it thank you very much. do your homework beforehand and you can find nice stuff to build
Shadow Love
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#38 - 2013-11-20 21:34:22 UTC
Crumplecorn wrote:
Shadow Love wrote:
those who simply want to watch the world burn
Not having a clue what you're doing is a far cry from having more of a clue than most.


I don't get it. Hurrr durrr.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here because, uh, forums. But my main point is this... I don't see much difference between these two statements.

"Miners are not realizing the isk value of their ore when they manufacture goods, resulting in baseline prices that result in a loss! This affects me negatively, and I don't like it. I really wish these other players would stop doing things that ruin my EVE experience."

and

"Gankers are not respecting my method of play, they gank my ship and I have no chance to defend myself! This makes me mad, and I don't like it. I really wish these other players would stop doing things that ruin my my EVE experience."

=

"WAHHHHHHHHHH"

I think the proper forum response to both of these statements is "HTFU", but I could be wrong. I don't think I am though.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#39 - 2013-11-20 21:36:38 UTC
Psyue Mi wrote:
Why bother with science and trade and planetary management when its not worth the time you spend?

Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.

Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?

Why bother with planetary management when the customs offices remove any possibility of making a profit when spending the time?

With this latest r@pe (oh yeah, when all the supplies you had in the customs offices disappeared) of planetary supplies and materials, why would anyone bother to do anything but ship combat?

Really poor choices coming from the developers/management.

As a 6 year player, I'm just about done.

The game is no longer worth my time and efforts.


If you fail to make solid and stable profits after 6 years then I think it safe to conclude that EvE is not a game suited for your talents.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#40 - 2013-11-20 21:37:19 UTC
Psyue Mi wrote:
Why bother with science and trade and planetary management when its not worth the time you spend?

Invention is too expensive for the results you MAY get.

Why bother manufacturing objects when the cost to manufacture is just slightly below what you MAY get paid?

Why bother with planetary management when the customs offices remove any possibility of making a profit when spending the time?

With this latest r@pe (oh yeah, when all the supplies you had in the customs offices disappeared) of planetary supplies and materials, why would anyone bother to do anything but ship combat?

Really poor choices coming from the developers/management.

As a 6 year player, I'm just about done.

The game is no longer worth my time and efforts.


WTF are you on about? Did you not take stuff out of custom offices?