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Overheating strip/mining lasers as a defense tactic
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supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#1 - 2013-11-20 05:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: supernova ranger
Overheating a mining laser causes a gas cloud to form that originates from the asteroid in question.

- Gas cloud grows bigger the longer it is mined, it is proportional to the
amount that is mined and removed from the roid
- Can not overheat in high
- Gas cloud that forms does damage to all vessels within it's radius
- Ore vessels have a bonus to negate some damage from the forming cloud
- Damaged lasers caused from overheating lasers loose performance
stats and have a reduced rate of increase for gas cloud creation
- Same restrictions as over heated weapons (use repair paste only up to 80% and module can burnout)
- 2 conflicting gas clouds do not stack damage
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2013-11-20 07:29:55 UTC
Why? How does this protect a miner even?
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#3 - 2013-11-20 09:23:06 UTC
Better idea: Mining lasers used against ships cause heat damage to modules.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#4 - 2013-11-20 11:15:36 UTC
Even better idea: mining lasers used against ships cause damage bypassing the shields, and give minerals (mainly tritanium) based on hull size. Just like in Homeworld.
Electrique Wizard
Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals
#5 - 2013-11-20 12:24:46 UTC
Jason Itiner wrote:
Even better idea: mining lasers used against ships cause damage bypassing the shields, and give minerals (mainly tritanium) based on hull size. Just like in Homeworld.

Quoting a stealth "nerf minmatar"-post

I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Jason Itiner
Harmless People
#6 - 2013-11-20 12:34:57 UTC
Electrique Wizard wrote:
Jason Itiner wrote:
Even better idea: mining lasers used against ships cause damage bypassing the shields, and give minerals (mainly tritanium) based on hull size. Just like in Homeworld.

Quoting a stealth "nerf minmatar"-post


No, that would be "Salvagers should damage Minmatar ships". I have nothing against them, though, I often fly a Stiletto, and I have a Scimitar queued up for training.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#7 - 2013-11-21 05:22:08 UTC
It's a defensive measure, the gas cloud does more damage to normal ships and could only ever be used in a mining operation which in turn limits it's ability to be abused for unintended roles.

And no, I'm not asking to mine minmatar ships... regardless of how much they resemble the raw materials...
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#8 - 2013-11-21 07:41:02 UTC
I really think the most elegant solution is having strip miners cause overheat damage based on their yield. So the ability to cause heat damage is inversely proportional to the amount of tank.
Carebears Countdown 5-4-3-2-1
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-11-21 08:12:19 UTC
They should damage ships somewhat no doubt.
novellus
The Special Snowflakes
#10 - 2013-11-21 08:33:02 UTC
I'm not buying this. It just feels a bit hokey. Drones and protection feels sufficient (and natural) to me. Giant gas clouds? Maybe it's just a matter of taste. Sorry.

-1
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2013-11-21 12:24:19 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
I really think the most elegant solution is having strip miners cause overheat damage based on their yield. So the ability to cause heat damage is inversely proportional to the amount of tank.



Why the hell should mining barges have a type of damage that is literally impossible to tank?
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#12 - 2013-11-21 14:08:49 UTC
I don't get why people think it's efficient to bring in to question a defense fleet when mining

1. A defense fleet hovering over a mining fleet is going to get boring, the mining fleet may actually be in danger when the defense fleet starts taking pot shots at them out of boredom. Sure mining fleets are big ass targets that EVERYONE wants to kill but if your under attack within 10min of setting up, your doing it wrong.

2. Mining vessels run to a pos and switch ships to pvp... whats the point of coming back out, your ship is safe and so the need is gone. Which makes that type of idle defense fleet is pointless towards mining.

3. The defense fleet participants could be making minimum 30m isk each doing something else which is close to the maximum profit that each hulk can pull.

You can spend over half your time not mining (aka, waiting in a station for hostiles to get bored and leave) and pull more profit from the activity then by getting a defense fleet involved.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#13 - 2013-11-21 14:10:20 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
I really think the most elegant solution is having strip miners cause overheat damage based on their yield. So the ability to cause heat damage is inversely proportional to the amount of tank.


Are you referring to strip miners acting like amarr lasers here?
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#14 - 2013-11-21 14:28:53 UTC
No, I mean directly attacking the modules themselves, causing overheat damage.

The actual effect should be very limited, so as to the cost of the hulls makes using it offensively prohibitively expensive, but a mining fleet would have the capability to fire upon its attackers.

Note too that Crimewatch is configured such that the attackers would get at least one free shot,.
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity
#15 - 2013-11-21 14:40:22 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
No, I mean directly attacking the modules themselves, causing overheat damage.

The actual effect should be very limited, so as to the cost of the hulls makes using it offensively prohibitively expensive, but a mining fleet would have the capability to fire upon its attackers.

Note too that Crimewatch is configured such that the attackers would get at least one free shot,.


How could you justify that? No other offensive vessel has that kind of capability and it would be able to take players out of play without needing to fire a single shot, even in places that have no roids ...

Here comes the procurers, fear their alpha!

Nothing about a mining vessel should induce fear but there should be second thoughts about trying to sneak up on one while its work done
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-11-21 14:50:34 UTC
Sarah Stallman wrote:
No, I mean directly attacking the modules themselves, causing overheat damage.

The actual effect should be very limited, so as to the cost of the hulls makes using it offensively prohibitively expensive, but a mining fleet would have the capability to fire upon its attackers.

Note too that Crimewatch is configured such that the attackers would get at least one free shot,.


Explain why barges should have a damage type that is literally impossible to tank.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-11-21 14:52:16 UTC
OP: It would be incredibly difficult to make this AoE gas cloud useful without being overpowered. Meaning it would either cover a small area that's easy to avoid or it would cover a large area, making it so powerful people would start using it in PvP, making this more than just a defense.

mining lasers causing heat damage to modules: NO
This would become a big hit in PvP. Every fleet would have a couple of mining vessels just so they could burn other people's modules. Anything causing heat damage to other people's mods is a horrible idea.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-11-21 16:22:16 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
OP: It would be incredibly difficult to make this AoE gas cloud useful without being overpowered. Meaning it would either cover a small area that's easy to avoid or it would cover a large area, making it so powerful people would start using it in PvP, making this more than just a defense.

mining lasers causing heat damage to modules: NO
This would become a big hit in PvP. Every fleet would have a couple of mining vessels just so they could burn other people's modules. Anything causing heat damage to other people's mods is a horrible idea.

Dont be in the pitful range for 3 minutes?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2013-11-21 16:30:34 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
OP: It would be incredibly difficult to make this AoE gas cloud useful without being overpowered. Meaning it would either cover a small area that's easy to avoid or it would cover a large area, making it so powerful people would start using it in PvP, making this more than just a defense.

mining lasers causing heat damage to modules: NO
This would become a big hit in PvP. Every fleet would have a couple of mining vessels just so they could burn other people's modules. Anything causing heat damage to other people's mods is a horrible idea.

Dont be in the pitful range for 3 minutes?



And when there are fifty of them? Don't be within 15KM of them for more than four seconds would be your ENTIRE balance suggestion?
Sarah Stallman
Pen2 Logistics
#20 - 2013-11-21 21:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Stallman
That's where balancing comes in. I recommended it be based on yield amounts so procurer's would have the least effect. With a decent procurer fit being on the order of 20 million ISK and giving you no more tank than a cruiser, while having the sig radius and speed of a battleship, they are easy to counter. Just blap the hell out of them. Sure, they'll nuke a couple things in the process but if it's balanced right the procurer's would cost more than anything they could actually hit.

It's all about balance. I'm not recommended that miners get the uber kill switch, just the ability to be really annoying.
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