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MMORPG.com about Winter Expansion Named -*EDIT-CCP asks them to remove misquots*

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Montmazar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2011-09-09 22:12:44 UTC
It sounds like the greatest expansion ever.

Funnily enough, I think that reading the hype before every expansion. And yet somehow. . .
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#82 - 2011-09-09 22:14:13 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been


Gold sellers use that same argument. We're not paying for server access. We're paying for game access. If you could log into the server but not fly any ships, you'd be entitled to a refund. Anyone can host a server, but NOT anyone can give us spreadsheets in space. That's what we're paying for, and to act like it's not is willfully disregarding logic for the convenience of a contrived argument.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Sassums
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#83 - 2011-09-09 22:14:28 UTC
The distribution of resources overhaul they speak of is a load of garbage.

ABC's should stay in wormhole space!

Wormholes are far more dangerous than those sitting behind a 20 man gate camp. Please explain to me how mining in 0.0 is dangerous when that is what you are sitting behind?

Not to mention you have belts that spawn all the time, in WH's we have to scan them down, and sometimes don't have any for days at a time.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#84 - 2011-09-09 22:16:10 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been


Gold sellers use that same argument. We're not paying for server access. We're paying for game access. If you could log into the server but not fly any ships, you'd be entitled to a refund. Anyone can host a server, but NOT anyone can give us spreadsheets in space. That's what we're paying for, and to act like it's not is willfully disregarding logic for the convenience of a contrived argument.



no, the TOS clearly says you pay for access to the server. nothing about ships or teh right to fly them.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-09-09 22:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian
Xander Riggs wrote:
The game is paid for by our subs. Anything else is extra. Always has been.

Interesting line of... umm, thinking. Tell me again, can you enjoy those "extra free features" without paying monthly sub? Do you think that EVE would expand and survive this long without expansions? Would you like to play this game as it was in 2003.?

Expansions are not gifts dude, CCP is not working on them because they feel generous or something but because they have to, otherwise their game would die long ago. Oh, and rest assured that you payed each one of them.
AnzacPaul
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2011-09-09 22:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: AnzacPaul
What do you know; A carrot to keep subs up for the next 3 months.....

That article says a whole lot, followed by a stack of "soons", "not ready yets" and "in the planning stage". ..


EDIT: To add, the CSM should have known about all of this already. Why is Mittani making such a herf derf if all this **** is coming?
Vanakov Mek'lanavar
The Disgraceful Knave
#87 - 2011-09-09 22:21:56 UTC
90% of this wont even be implemented. As like any other Eve expanision, they never deliver.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#88 - 2011-09-09 22:22:49 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been


Gold sellers use that same argument. We're not paying for server access. We're paying for game access. If you could log into the server but not fly any ships, you'd be entitled to a refund. Anyone can host a server, but NOT anyone can give us spreadsheets in space. That's what we're paying for, and to act like it's not is willfully disregarding logic for the convenience of a contrived argument.



no, the TOS clearly says you pay for access to the server. nothing about ships or teh right to fly them.


Someone is not familiar with legalspeak, I see. That clause is specifically written that way so CCP can be held accountable for long periods of server downtime, as the server is a requirement for the function of the game. Taking the servers down, under that agreement, means that CCP is directly denying a product. Written the other way, CCP could be held accountable for ore thieves and whatever else people wanted to rail about that 'interferes' with their gameplay.

Bottom line: We pay money, we get game. They're not obligated to hand out expansions any more than a car dealership is obligated to hand out new tires after you buy a car.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#89 - 2011-09-09 22:25:32 UTC
Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
The game is paid for by our subs. Anything else is extra. Always has been.

Interesting line of... umm, thinking. Tell me again, can you enjoy those "extra free features" without paying monthly sub? Do you think that EVE would expand and survive this long without expansions? Would you like to play this game as it was in 2003.?

Expansions are not gifts dude, CCP is not working on them because they feel generous or something but because they have to, otherwise their game would die long ago. Oh, and rest assured that you payed each one of them.


Did you pay additional money on top of your subscription fee? Then it was a gift.

Every expansion for Everquest had to be purchased. Every WoW expansion has had to be purchased. Every eve expansion has added no additional cost.

That is the definition of free. Not costing money. The intentions behind the gift are irrelevant.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#90 - 2011-09-09 22:27:46 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been


Gold sellers use that same argument. We're not paying for server access. We're paying for game access. If you could log into the server but not fly any ships, you'd be entitled to a refund. Anyone can host a server, but NOT anyone can give us spreadsheets in space. That's what we're paying for, and to act like it's not is willfully disregarding logic for the convenience of a contrived argument.



no, the TOS clearly says you pay for access to the server. nothing about ships or teh right to fly them.


Someone is not familiar with legalspeak, I see. That clause is specifically written that way so CCP can be held accountable for long periods of server downtime, as the server is a requirement for the function of the game. Taking the servers down, under that agreement, means that CCP is directly denying a product. Written the other way, CCP could be held accountable for ore thieves and whatever else people wanted to rail about that 'interferes' with their gameplay.

Bottom line: We pay money, we get game. They're not obligated to hand out expansions any more than a car dealership is obligated to hand out new tires after you buy a car.


no they are not, but in the same way they arnt obligated to keep trading and with out improving what we pay access for they would have stopped trading a long time ago. we pay for every bit of coding they put out, regardless if its a bug fix or expansion. we pay already

OMG when can i get a pic here
Luckytania
Bullets of Justice
#91 - 2011-09-09 22:33:59 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been

No. It was part of the sales pitch before I signed on that the game was being constantly upgraded at no cost beyond the subscription.

This was highlighted, in fact, as a differentiator to that 'other' big MMORPG.
Voivod Rhahk'an Anstian
Doomheim
#92 - 2011-09-09 22:34:21 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Bottom line: We pay money, we get game. They're not obligated to hand out expansions any more than a car dealership is obligated to hand out new tires after you buy a car.

Of course they are not obligated to expand their game. Heck, they are not even obligated to preserve your account and anything attached to it - all virtual stuff you own is their property and can be erased in any time with no explanation given. All they have to do after you payed is to grant you access to their server and then it's only up to you to decide was it worth it. Bottom line: expansions are necessity; without them very few people would stick to the game.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#93 - 2011-09-09 22:34:22 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
no. we pay for access to the server, if ccp want to upgrade the product on that server its there choice and has been paid for. always has been


Gold sellers use that same argument. We're not paying for server access. We're paying for game access. If you could log into the server but not fly any ships, you'd be entitled to a refund. Anyone can host a server, but NOT anyone can give us spreadsheets in space. That's what we're paying for, and to act like it's not is willfully disregarding logic for the convenience of a contrived argument.



no, the TOS clearly says you pay for access to the server. nothing about ships or teh right to fly them.


Someone is not familiar with legalspeak, I see. That clause is specifically written that way so CCP can be held accountable for long periods of server downtime, as the server is a requirement for the function of the game. Taking the servers down, under that agreement, means that CCP is directly denying a product. Written the other way, CCP could be held accountable for ore thieves and whatever else people wanted to rail about that 'interferes' with their gameplay.

Bottom line: We pay money, we get game. They're not obligated to hand out expansions any more than a car dealership is obligated to hand out new tires after you buy a car.


no they are not, but in the same way they arnt obligated to keep trading and with out improving what we pay access for they would have stopped trading a long time ago. we pay for every bit of coding they put out, regardless if its a bug fix or expansion. we pay already


No, we are not paying for every bit of coding they put out. By that same logic, holiday events in other games are actually MANDATORY, and the devs have to do it. They don't. The devs don't have to do anything. They could stop work tomorrow on Eve entirely and we'd have gotten our money's worth. While they move on to world of darkness or whatever their next big project is, they could leave Eve to rot and y'know what we'd get? The exact same content.

They are not mandated to even patch the game if they don't want to. Granted, it wouldn't be a great decision on their part, but they don't HAVE TO do it.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#94 - 2011-09-09 22:35:31 UTC
ok. if we are not paying for every bit of work done on eve who is?

OMG when can i get a pic here
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#95 - 2011-09-09 22:40:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Riggs
Smoking Blunts wrote:
ok. if we are not paying for every bit of work done on eve who is?


CCP is paying for the work.
We're paying for the game.

There IS a difference. Paying for the work implies that we have an innate right to everything their devs produce. We don't. We don't pay their salaries. CCP pays for the manhours put into content. CCP pays for the material cost.

We're not entitled to their work any more than you'd be entitled to a farmer's grain because he's government subsidized. Sure, he got some of your money in a roundabout way, but that money isn't yours any more when it gets to him.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#96 - 2011-09-09 22:43:32 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
ok. if we are not paying for every bit of work done on eve who is?


CCP is paying for the work.
We're paying for the game.

There IS a difference. Paying for the work implies that we have an innate right to everything their devs produce. We don't. We don't pay their salaries. CCP pays for the manhours put into content. CCP pays for the material cost.

We're not entitled to their work any more than you'd be entitled to a farmer's grain because he's government subsidized. Sure, he got some of your money in a roundabout way, but that money isn't yours any more when it gets to him.



funny i thought without eve ccp wouldnt be afloat anymore.

good to know they dont need our subs to produce games

OMG when can i get a pic here
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#97 - 2011-09-09 22:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Riggs
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
ok. if we are not paying for every bit of work done on eve who is?


CCP is paying for the work.
We're paying for the game.

There IS a difference. Paying for the work implies that we have an innate right to everything their devs produce. We don't. We don't pay their salaries. CCP pays for the manhours put into content. CCP pays for the material cost.

We're not entitled to their work any more than you'd be entitled to a farmer's grain because he's government subsidized. Sure, he got some of your money in a roundabout way, but that money isn't yours any more when it gets to him.



funny i thought without eve ccp wouldnt be afloat anymore.

good to know they dont need our subs to produce games


You're right. CCP.

Until you start paying their dev's salaries, you're still not entitled to what they produce, though. You can't sic a cop on someone or tell him to go away because you pay his salary. You can't take a farmer's grain because you pay some of his. You can't tell a teacher to pass you because you pay theirs. CCP is not beholden to you any more than any other company would be. In fact, considering how low the cost of a subscription is, they're even less beholden to bitter-vet subscribers than the companies in those other examples.

If you don't think the product is worth it, you don't have to pay. Paying does not entitle you to additional work on their part. They don't have to use that money to give you even more stuff, and you don't have to stick around.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Holy One
Privat Party
#98 - 2011-09-09 22:55:07 UTC
Quote:
When I asked how they were then going to incentivize this behavior, the team didn’t have real specifics just yet.

Arrow

:)
Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2011-09-09 22:56:37 UTC
Holy One wrote:
Quote:
When I asked how they were then going to incentivize this behavior, the team didn’t have real specifics just yet.

Arrow



CCP at its finest. 3 months to go, and haven't even got their plans straight. Whatever they do it will be terrible.
Kno Bodeesbitch
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2011-09-09 22:58:03 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
The winter Expansion will be called EvE online: parlay.



Speaking of Parley...whatever happened to CCP Pan? Did she ever return to the forums after that fateful day?