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Why hi sec players will NOT move into low or null no matter how much you cry about it.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#261 - 2011-11-19 19:53:26 UTC
i don't want any of you in nullsec, i'm the gatekeeper, get lost

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2011-11-19 20:00:00 UTC
Voith wrote:
The point of the game for YOU and Me is PvP. The point of the game for Bob is market manipulation
…aka PvP.
Quote:
for Jane it is production
…aka PvP.
Quote:
for Steve is it just an IRC client
…ok, fair enough, but he won't make demands that PvP should be removed anyway.
Quote:
Jim likes being a space trucker.
…aka PvP.
Quote:
THAT is the point of Eve: There isn't one. It is what you make it.
…but no matter what you make of it, it's still a PvP game centred around a market driven by a war economy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#263 - 2011-11-19 20:01:06 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Define, "a lot of people". And, explain your data collection methods.
Cf. any thread about how highsec is supposed to be safe and about how gankers are psychopathic griefers.
darkenspace
Imperial AMARR White Kights
#264 - 2011-11-19 20:44:32 UTC
well they did turn down the isk on missions to move them out to low sec then they all left the game is now why ccp crying e-mails asking them to come back they did what you wanted and lost money why they layed off some devs

your ideas of game play dont make money grifters made them lose money no one cares what you say
its what they take the the bank in a month in the end the type of game play that will win over is the one that makes money
after being gone 6 months this game took a hard hit your ideas failed now missions pay more again if your rly thing they dont won't to make money then you dont know S--- about mmos should stop posting
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#265 - 2011-11-19 21:36:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Idiocy

Serenity.

Even with next to no PvP people still did production, market crap, etc.



Oh hay, it is almost like miss publord is clueless!
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#266 - 2011-11-19 21:44:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
Define, "a lot of people". And, explain your data collection methods.
Cf. any thread about how highsec is supposed to be safe and about how gankers are psychopathic griefers.


Well simple fact that "not only carebear but basically we" concidering collecting tears and "real" enjoyment from causing "real" pain psychopathic doesnt mean we want some changes, well except war dec mechanism, which went from "pay to grief" to pay to "lose your dec money in 24hrs"

Most of the people in high-sec gank noobs just for laugh of it, and even more laugh when the one lose everything and is kind of sad about such "progress"

I respect those who says so, yes i am psycho and i like to cause suffer if i could do it in real life i would do so...
I fully endorse such people, because they are the one, which are not "bullshitting" themselfs.

Anyway asking highsec carebears to go to low possibly in their best PvE ship fitted with officer and faction mods is kind of stupid.

Find another meal ticket.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#267 - 2011-11-19 22:31:04 UTC
Back to the OP- I'll expand on your point with this, and it's sure to ruffle feathers, but, the truth always hurts someone.

The reason so many people aren't terribly interested in PvP, or even co-op play in PvE, is the harsh reality that the weakest link in any game, IS OTHER PLAYERS.
Yes, sounds strange considering Eve is an MMO. But the fact is that Eve is a great game with years of development and tweaking and expansion. The players never change though.

Simply, in my time in Eve, the only time I've not enjoyed the game is when playing with other people. Not even the QQ over being blown up by enemies- I've been blown up by 'friendlies' just as much during nerd rages and team boredom.
Read these forums, about half the threads are people not wanting to PLAY a game, but rather just ask for the 'win button' skill build or ship fitting. Many more threads are about the best way to run alts and other acct's- which IMO is completely missing the point of the game.
Eve isn't a game for the vast majority that play it- it's a complicated calculator and gameplay is just the means to the ends of number crunching. Jumping in a ship and melting things with lasers is cool- endless math to figure out that 2% more DPS loses it's shine quickly. PvE largely lets you ignore that level of obsessive math for fitting a ship- while PvP is more the numbers than FiS.

When people first try out a fleet op, then spend two hours of the FC dictating load outs for 20 minutes of roaming...not once, not an anomaly, but more often than not.....don't wonder why they aren't rushing to PvP or co-op.
The demand to run third party programs like TS also means that you can't just play Eve, to play Eve.

And for the PvP folk that think everyone should be forced to play Eve their way- when you aren't running a platoon of alts and a whole other acct to support that one character- then your opinion matters. But the fact is that Eve's PvE and solo stuff is the only CASUAL way to play Eve. Pretty much the game-geeks that turn games into mini-careers and invest that kind of obsessive behavior, have made it so being 'casual' essentially means being left out of PvP for the most part. I'm a middle age guy that likes to play video games- but I'm not interested in managing a half dozen 'lives' across multiple accounts just to even play a game. That, is ridiculous. And it's a big reason why people end up solo or forever carebear- because far too many Eve players mistake a game for a career and life- and they just aren't any fun to play with.
I've only played one other MMO, but it was identical there. The game itself was just fine- but as soon as you team up with others or take them on- the game becomes just numbers and code, with those players willing to find every exploit, run a gaggle of toons or acct's dominating and complaining why no one wants to play with them anymore.

There's some very cool people in Eve- even people like me with just one toon (in Eve, there is zero reason for an alt that isn't just exploiting the nature of it being a video game), and certainly one acct. But you'll probably find them doing carebear activities so they can just chat and enjoy the game.

It may sting- but the truth is that all those carebears and solo players aren't scared nor is there a problem with the game's combat mechanics- they are simply not interested in spending more time on EFT than in game, they don't feel like running a grip of alts much less have multiple accounts, and they don't want to dedicate more effort to a game than to real life.

When care bears say they don't want to be forced to play the PvP'ers game- it's not fear of video game violence for the most part- it's that by and large the PvP'ers 'game' is not terribly appealing to anyone not more dedicated to a video game toon's life than their own. It's not the PvP in Eve that people don't like- it's the PvP'ers.
Hey I am all for PvP, what I'm not for is working a system like alts, dual boxing accts, and the like just to participate in a meaningful way. I am too old to care that much about a video game to fear loss in it so much to need to resort to playing it that way. At least for me, that is even less appealing of a way to play a game than mining space rocks for hours on end.
Vigdis Thorisdottir
Doomheim
#268 - 2011-11-19 23:46:38 UTC
If null players want pvp, then pvp eachother. Stop with all the blues, and stop with all the non-aggression pacts. You ******* are the whiniest bitches in this whole ******* game. You want to rail on about how Eve is a pvp game? Then start taking part in it with eachother rather than trying to force it upon carebears who can't fly a rifter competently, let alone your cynabal+falcon and booster alts.

As a null player myself, you are giving us all a bad name. HTFU.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#269 - 2011-11-20 00:28:41 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
...
When care bears say ...


TL;DR

Carebears think you guys are basement dwellers that spend too much time on EFT and fore-play. They want to just do stuff for an hour or two, while you guys destroy the immersion and make it as boring as hell

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#270 - 2011-11-20 00:42:40 UTC
Voith wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Idiocy

Serenity.

Even with next to no PvP people still did production, market crap, etc.



Oh hay, it is almost like miss publord is clueless!






Market crap is PvP you dolt!

So is production.


Everything in the game, aside from ship spinning and chatting is PvP.
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#271 - 2011-11-20 01:09:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
Define, "a lot of people". And, explain your data collection methods.
Cf. any thread about how highsec is supposed to be safe and about how gankers are psychopathic griefers.


Goons arent psychotic griefers, theyre infiltration specialists.
see sig lol

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#272 - 2011-11-20 01:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Serene Repose wrote:
Have you ever considered the reason most people don't go into null or low sec is because you're out there? This may be hard to believe, and it isn't meant as an insult. If your idea of "play" is destroying things, including the efforts and aspirations of other people, and you're unhappy with null and low sec because there's just not enough people out there to get your ya yas out, it may be highly likely the problem is with you, not the mechanics of the game.

The reason I say this is this issue of null/low/hi sec keeps getting tossed around, but the cogent point about why players aren't encouraged with the idea of leaving hi sec specifically isn't really covered adequately, or is so heavily stomped on by the "destructive" players who also can't seem to keep their attitudes confined to their playing "styles."

So, here it is. The great majority of EVE players do not find constantly fighting with no real opportunity to be creative (rather than destructive) a satisfying, enjoyable or productive way to spend time. This obviates (Google it) itself by the sheer numbers of complaints from the destructive players, and the relative lack of similar complaints by those who are contemptuously labeled "Care Bears." It's even to the point where the destructive minority is urging CCP to change game mechanics to force the productive players into their arena so they may be supplied with a steady stream of victims.

Oddly enough, this disdain for a destructive gaming style has not so much to do with cowardice (and the destructive types with some sort of bravery) as it has to do with the mind-numbing repetitiveness of destructive gameplay. Face it. More intelligent, and widely versed people require something a bit more intricate than pew pew to attract their interest. Self-imagined thugs, however, need only to kick a hole in something to get their titillating giggles out. The adrenalin rush is okay. The satisfaction of seeing an intricately planned and well-executed creation reach fruition is much, much better.

As long as the majority of players see null and low sec as a sucker's bet populated only by those that intend to destroy everything creative players build, just to provide yucks for a minority of vocal (putting it nicely) vandals you will NOT see a major migration of hi sec players into low or null sec. Funny thing about intelligent people. They aren't stupid.

Read it and weep.


There are not enough of intelligent and constructive posts like yours.

My respect to you, and wish you all the best around. Thank you.

EDIT: after reading 14 pages, all I see is people not understanding a fracking word of what you just said.
This makes this community, in my eyes, a lot worse than Wow crowd, WOT crowd or whatever. At this really single moment I have the impression of playing with really disturbed people and that doesn't feel good.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#273 - 2011-11-20 01:31:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
Define, "a lot of people". And, explain your data collection methods.
Cf. any thread about how highsec is supposed to be safe and about how gankers are psychopathic griefers.


Bullshit...who are the "lots of people" and what specifically have they said?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#274 - 2011-11-20 01:49:26 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Have you ever considered the reason most people don't go into null or low sec is because you're out there? This may be hard to believe, and it isn't meant as an insult. If your idea of "play" is destroying things, including the efforts and aspirations of other people, and you're unhappy with null and low sec because there's just not enough people out there to get your ya yas out, it may be highly likely the problem is with you, not the mechanics of the game.
.............edit


Post of the YEAR !!!!!! Attention Thanks for stating truth.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Captain Octanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#275 - 2011-11-20 02:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Octanis
I live in null for pvp. Simple as that. Also pI is muuuch better. Also that pesky concord isn't out there ruining my fun
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#276 - 2011-11-20 02:59:52 UTC
To "LIVE" constantly in null or low takes too much of a time comitment.

I wonder if all the people who live in Null and Low realize that if they just made about 30 smaller corps and pvp'd eachother instead of having 1 massive corp and nobody to fight.

They are the victims of themselves.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#277 - 2011-11-20 03:02:38 UTC
MNagy wrote:
To "LIVE" constantly in null or low takes too much of a time comitment.

I wonder if all the people who live in Null and Low realize that if they just made about 30 smaller corps and pvp'd eachother instead of having 1 massive corp and nobody to fight.

They are the victims of themselves.



Too much blue = not good.

They know it, that's why they try now to "pvp" high sec, until they "blue" high sec hundreds of players NPC corporations...

Stupid rabbits are really stupid.
Captain Octanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#278 - 2011-11-20 03:31:46 UTC
>carebears thinking they know null

the region may be full of blues- so you do a roam to another region :P it's not hard to find pewpew if you want it
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#279 - 2011-11-20 03:38:48 UTC
Captain Octanis wrote:
>carebears thinking they know null

the region may be full of blues- so you do a roam to another region :P it's not hard to find pewpew if you want it



I know that very well, better than you think Blink

Unfortunately, ther aren't enough of "those" zones and we have to be honest, there are far too many blues wherever you go unless specific areas and the pvp you can find there is almost 1--->100, either you get some small scale good fights and those are extremely rare or you just get bait stuff the time you get hotdroped...nice stuff

"insurance"--->clone etc etc

Wow, ubber pvp, at this state of pvp I can't think about any other better way to improve it than make it like wow, at least people would do it.
Elrich Kouvo
Doomheim
#280 - 2011-11-20 05:53:29 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Back to the OP- I'll expand on your point with this, and it's sure to ruffle feathers, but, the truth always hurts someone.

The reason so many people aren't terribly interested in PvP, or even co-op play in PvE, is the harsh reality that the weakest link in any game, IS OTHER PLAYERS.
Yes, sounds strange considering Eve is an MMO. But the fact is that Eve is a great game with years of development and tweaking and expansion. The players never change though.

Simply, in my time in Eve, the only time I've not enjoyed the game is when playing with other people. Not even the QQ over being blown up by enemies- I've been blown up by 'friendlies' just as much during nerd rages and team boredom.
Read these forums, about half the threads are people not wanting to PLAY a game, but rather just ask for the 'win button' skill build or ship fitting. Many more threads are about the best way to run alts and other acct's- which IMO is completely missing the point of the game.
Eve isn't a game for the vast majority that play it- it's a complicated calculator and gameplay is just the means to the ends of number crunching. Jumping in a ship and melting things with lasers is cool- endless math to figure out that 2% more DPS loses it's shine quickly. PvE largely lets you ignore that level of obsessive math for fitting a ship- while PvP is more the numbers than FiS.

When people first try out a fleet op, then spend two hours of the FC dictating load outs for 20 minutes of roaming...not once, not an anomaly, but more often than not.....don't wonder why they aren't rushing to PvP or co-op.
The demand to run third party programs like TS also means that you can't just play Eve, to play Eve.

And for the PvP folk that think everyone should be forced to play Eve their way- when you aren't running a platoon of alts and a whole other acct to support that one character- then your opinion matters. But the fact is that Eve's PvE and solo stuff is the only CASUAL way to play Eve. Pretty much the game-geeks that turn games into mini-careers and invest that kind of obsessive behavior, have made it so being 'casual' essentially means being left out of PvP for the most part. I'm a middle age guy that likes to play video games- but I'm not interested in managing a half dozen 'lives' across multiple accounts just to even play a game. That, is ridiculous. And it's a big reason why people end up solo or forever carebear- because far too many Eve players mistake a game for a career and life- and they just aren't any fun to play with.
I've only played one other MMO, but it was identical there. The game itself was just fine- but as soon as you team up with others or take them on- the game becomes just numbers and code, with those players willing to find every exploit, run a gaggle of toons or acct's dominating and complaining why no one wants to play with them anymore.

There's some very cool people in Eve- even people like me with just one toon (in Eve, there is zero reason for an alt that isn't just exploiting the nature of it being a video game), and certainly one acct. But you'll probably find them doing carebear activities so they can just chat and enjoy the game.

It may sting- but the truth is that all those carebears and solo players aren't scared nor is there a problem with the game's combat mechanics- they are simply not interested in spending more time on EFT than in game, they don't feel like running a grip of alts much less have multiple accounts, and they don't want to dedicate more effort to a game than to real life.

When care bears say they don't want to be forced to play the PvP'ers game- it's not fear of video game violence for the most part- it's that by and large the PvP'ers 'game' is not terribly appealing to anyone not more dedicated to a video game toon's life than their own. It's not the PvP in Eve that people don't like- it's the PvP'ers.
Hey I am all for PvP, what I'm not for is working a system like alts, dual boxing accts, and the like just to participate in a meaningful way. I am too old to care that much about a video game to fear loss in it so much to need to resort to playing it that way. At least for me, that is even less appealing of a way to play a game than mining space rocks for hours on end.
This. it's a two hour minimum for co-op play.
1. plan
2. invite group
3. re invite group
4. re plan
5. fit
6. re invite group
7. re plan
8. re fit
9. Roam
10. PVP...... Maybe