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A go-between on my way to the Machariel
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Nicholas Lafisques
Dark Matters Retail and Distribution
#1 - 2013-11-16 02:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicholas Lafisques
Looking for a ship that i can use before i get the skills to fly something so expensive. Im not all that worried about the isk... That being said i dont want to be foolish about it. Have only been playing a few weeks but I plan to stick around for a while.

I want to work my way up into a machariel as fast as possible. I want to have all the skills i would need to train for the Machariel also be applicable to a ship or 2 to use in between the Machariel and my curren (which is a Vexor).

I plan on mainly mission running. My vexor can handle level 2 without having to warp out, though it is painfully slow as my skills are lacking (i would assume mainly in the drone category). I would like a ship that would run level 2s more efficiently (unless its just my skills that are slowing my down so much), and also something for 3/4s before i get into the Mach.

Though I had planned on using the Dominix i believe the Mach would be a bit more fun. Would it make sense to use the Dominix as the ship before i can skill up for the Mach? or is there a better route altogether? I wouldnt want to waste too many skill points for the Domonix to have them be nearly useless on the Mach.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2013-11-16 03:22:46 UTC
If your final plan is a Mach, you shouldn't get too deep into drone skills which you'll have to if you decide to go Vexor>Myrm>Dominix. The Mach has a sizeable drone bay but that's secondary to its gun dps, you should focus on projectile turrets first if you want to eventually fly a Mach.

What I'd suggest is to drop the Vexor and go for a Thrasher for L2s, destroyers generally do better in L2s because of the large number of small ships and this will get you on your way to getting skills for the Mach. Once your skills are better, you should move up to a Hurricane for L3 missions while training for large projectile turrets and shield skills. Once all your gunnery, capactitor, shield and BS support skills are at least at IV you can jump into L4s in a Maelstrom which you can use to learn the ropes of doing L4 missions while training your skills for a Mach which should at least be: Gallente/Minmatar BS IV, T2 Large Autocannons, gunnery support mostly IV with some Vs, Navigation support IV, Full t2 shield tank with all shield related skills (except compensation skills) at IV, and good enough fitting skills to fit a standard Mach. Here's some fits to get you started:

[Hurricane, L3s]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Fusion M
[Empty High slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I


Warrior II x5
Warrior II x1

[Maelstrom, L4 Low Skill]

Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, Fusion L

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Warrior II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

[Machariel, L4s]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Core B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II


Warrior II x5
Berserker II x4
Nicholas Lafisques
Dark Matters Retail and Distribution
#3 - 2013-11-16 03:32:13 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
If your final plan is a Mach, you shouldn't get too deep into drone skills which you'll have to if you decide to go Vexor>Myrm>Dominix. The Mach has a sizeable drone bay but that's secondary to its gun dps, you should focus on projectile turrets first if you want to eventually fly a Mach.

What I'd suggest is to drop the Vexor and go for a Thrasher for L2s, destroyers generally do better in L2s because of the large number of small ships and this will get you on your way to getting skills for the Mach. Once your skills are better, you should move up to a Hurricane for L3 missions while training for large projectile turrets and shield skills. Once all your gunnery, capactitor, shield and BS support skills are at least at IV you can jump into L4s in a Maelstrom which you can use to learn the ropes of doing L4 missions while training your skills for a Mach which should at least be: Gallente/Minmatar BS IV, T2 Large Autocannons, gunnery support mostly IV with some Vs, Navigation support IV, Full t2 shield tank with all shield related skills (except compensation skills) at IV, and good enough fitting skills to fit a standard Mach. Here's some fits to get you started:


exactly what i wanted... perfect

thank you
Cyrus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-16 04:59:12 UTC
You say isk isn't an issue. I like the cynabal for times I want a ship that is smaller than the mach. Makes easy work of lvl 3's and does decently for lvl 4's.

[Cynabal, Ratter]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Domination 10MN Afterburner
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

with all V skills.
522 DPS from turrets
158 DPS from drones

Cost just under 1.6 bil and being just a smaller version of the mach, All the skills are in the same line.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5 - 2013-11-16 05:16:28 UTC
Cyrus wrote:
You say isk isn't an issue. I like the cynabal for times I want a ship that is smaller than the mach. Makes easy work of lvl 3's and does decently for lvl 4's.

[Cynabal, Ratter]
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Domination 10MN Afterburner
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

with all V skills.
522 DPS from turrets
158 DPS from drones

Cost just under 1.6 bil and being just a smaller version of the mach, All the skills are in the same line.




I know he said isk isn't an issue, but 1.6 bil for a mission Cynabal is way waaaay too much. It costs 400+ million more than the Mach I suggested for a huge decrease in performance, so you definitely don't want to use it in L4s because you're literally paying more for less.

More importantly, I would strongly suggest never undocking this ship as it paints a huge target on your back for suicide gankers, you would only need a couple Nados to suicide that Cynabal for a possible massive payout for the gankers. Hell I'm not usually a suicide ganker but if I had the oppurtunity to gank you in this ship I would.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-11-16 07:45:53 UTC
If you plan to "stick around", then forget about missioning and training for a specific ship to run them. Missions are extremely repetitive (they are the same handful of missions on every level, lvl 4 just has more ships) and once you've trained into a pirate battleship, you got nowhere to improve. Missions are in this game to provide a method for players to get standings towards factions and NPC corporations, they are not meaningful or lasting content by themselves.

I mean, who would want to do PVE in an MMO?

.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#7 - 2013-11-16 09:19:16 UTC
By the time you skill for the Mach CCP will have it rebalanced, just sayin
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#8 - 2013-11-16 09:27:00 UTC
To mare wrote:
By the time you skill for the Mach CCP will have it rebalanced, just sayin

I would say they already Rebalanced it with the tracking enhancer II nerf. But there is probably an agility change coming as well.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#9 - 2013-11-16 10:16:51 UTC
Roime wrote:
If you plan to "stick around", then forget about missioning and training for a specific ship to run them. Missions are extremely repetitive (they are the same handful of missions on every level, lvl 4 just has more ships) and once you've trained into a pirate battleship, you got nowhere to improve. Missions are in this game to provide a method for players to get standings towards factions and NPC corporations, they are not meaningful or lasting content by themselves.

I mean, who would want to do PVE in an MMO?



This is true but missions are a good way to get some income started for eventual PvP. Also as you said standings for things like jump clones and such are very useful. You can go straight for other means of earning money of course, which might be better, however missions are easy to get into and also sort of the direction that combat tutorials lead you into.

I personally did L4s till they got boring before I ventured into PvP and other careers in EvE like exploration, WHs, nullsec etc.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#10 - 2013-11-16 11:23:22 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
To mare wrote:
By the time you skill for the Mach CCP will have it rebalanced, just sayin

I would say they already Rebalanced it with the tracking enhancer II nerf. But there is probably an agility change coming as well.

I would love if the rebalancing was done w the Mach, but I doubt it.
I think it's gonna lose 1 gun or some speed/agility, if they have to nerf it I hope they go for the first option.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#11 - 2013-11-16 11:48:41 UTC
To mare wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
To mare wrote:
By the time you skill for the Mach CCP will have it rebalanced, just sayin

I would say they already Rebalanced it with the tracking enhancer II nerf. But there is probably an agility change coming as well.

I would love if the rebalancing was done w the Mach, but I doubt it.
I think it's gonna lose 1 gun or some speed/agility, if they have to nerf it I hope they go for the first option.


Losing 1 gun is too brutal of a nerf IMO and it's not really the dps that make the Mach as good as it is, it's the ridiculous speed and agility, it's pretty much a cruiser with BS dps and tank.
Skurja Volpar
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2013-11-16 12:04:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Skurja Volpar
I reckon just a nice ehp nerf, retain the speed and dps, but make flying it a more manly en-devour.

OP: Maelstrom is definitely your best go between, same guns and fitting style as the mach, but sacrifices speed and damage application for a massive tank, so nice & forgiving, but still pretty effective.

Above fits look just fine; but just for ***** & giggles I used to run pretty much everything just fine in something like this in my missioning days:

Maelstrom

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

100mn Afterburner II
X-large Shield Booster II
Mission Specific Hardener II (main rat damage type)
Mission Specific Hardener II (main rat damage type)
Mission Specific Hardener II (secondary rat damage type)
Shield Boost Amplifier II

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Projectile Ambit Extension I

Hammerheads + Warriors

1 or 2 faction gyros and a deadspace shield booster will go a long way too, and you can fit them right onto your mach afterwards.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#13 - 2013-11-16 12:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
But the Mach is a great ship, my current fit does easily over 1400 dps with a three slots used for shield tank at 1500 to 2400 dps depending on heat, so there is quite a bit that you can squeeze out of it.

I have used lasers, hybrids, drones and projectiles, of all of them I find projectiles work best for the game I like to play hope you enjoy them too.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#14 - 2013-11-17 11:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: To mare
Dato Koppla wrote:
To mare wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
To mare wrote:
By the time you skill for the Mach CCP will have it rebalanced, just sayin

I would say they already Rebalanced it with the tracking enhancer II nerf. But there is probably an agility change coming as well.

I would love if the rebalancing was done w the Mach, but I doubt it.
I think it's gonna lose 1 gun or some speed/agility, if they have to nerf it I hope they go for the first option.


Losing 1 gun is too brutal of a nerf IMO and it's not really the dps that make the Mach as good as it is, it's the ridiculous speed and agility, it's pretty much a cruiser with BS dps and tank.

Losing 1 gun will make all the Mach mission runner cry, losing speed or agility will nerf the ship too badly for its intended pvp role (nanobs).
I'd keep the ship viable for pvp rather than missioning

Edit: the tank on a speedy Mach is pretty bad for a bs some cruisers can tank more
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#15 - 2013-11-17 14:53:43 UTC
Dominix is good for almost any situation. ;-) TFE is also good. imho better than mach now.
Nicholas Lafisques
Dark Matters Retail and Distribution
#16 - 2013-11-18 04:28:12 UTC
thanks guys, lovin the discussion!
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-11-18 19:19:35 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
Dominix is good for almost any situation. ;-) TFE is also good. imho better than mach now.


I would ask if you meant Typhoon or Tempest Fleet issue (both would be TFE), but then I realized, you're insance and it doesn't matter.

The mach is objectively better than either one.
Skelee VI
Swamp Panthers
Bog Brotherhood
#18 - 2013-11-18 21:28:01 UTC
+5 implants remap and train for mach, when you are ready let me know where you are carebearing? :)
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#19 - 2013-11-19 16:21:17 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Oska Rus wrote:
Dominix is good for almost any situation. ;-) TFE is also good. imho better than mach now.


I would ask if you meant Typhoon or Tempest Fleet issue (both would be TFE), but then I realized, you're insance and it doesn't matter.

The mach is objectively better than either one.



Typhoon of course. Insane DPS for torps or superb DPS and insane range for cruises with full fleet of drones and two gun bonused slot on top. Machs DPS drop significantly with range although he miht be better on instapoping frig and cruiser rats. But thanks mentioning ambiguity of TFE I always forget about pest because he has too few torps :D.