These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Operation Spectre - Event Breakdown and FAQ

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#141 - 2013-11-15 13:51:34 UTC
Killerjock wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
The issue you are describing with the lack of exposition is, we believe, a direct result of three issues - having actors also being FCs,


So what you're saying is that your actors could not act because they were being FC; and elsewhere, that they could not FC because they were acting.
In fact one of the complaints (to which I do not subscribe, mind you, i believe it's good that they weren't) is that CCP should've directed the fleets and did not. But the did not is without doubt. And another of the complaints is that your planned long route that was supposed to help in deploying the storyline wasn't used for storyline at all.

The same spindoctor tactics and circular reasoning has been used with the TIDI - "we didn't reinforce the route", "we didn't think we'd have tidi".
And with the force distribution "we thought the empires would win", "we reinforced the pirate fleets".

The whole twitter incident has been called "a success" - trickling planned and all.


Sorry if you think I'm trying to doublespeak you, but I'm genuinely not. Actor/FC example is the easiest to deal with - if you're trying to do 2 things and neither of those things are compatible, you don't do one well and the other not at all, you do them both to a mediocre standard. Multitasking is bad at the best of times, but in a high stress situation it's too high a cost to bear. The TiDi example you're giving is an example of a knock-on mistake rather than circular reasoning. We didn't think we'd have TiDi (oversight, again on my part) ergo we didn't reinforce the route. The use of Twitter was absolutely a success, for the purpose that it was used for - to prevent a potential server calamity. Did it negatively impact the event? Can certainly be argued that it did. Did it affect our plans? Absolutely. Did we have time to do anything else? No.



CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#142 - 2013-11-15 14:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
My previous post aside I'd like to draw some attention to this thread New Player Training Session: PvP Fleet! by CCP Eterne - Team Illuminati.

Now this is the same team that planned and executed (yes I said that) "Operation Spectre" so maybe, just maybe they've learnt something already as this post is:

  • Clear
  • Concise
  • Informative
  • States communications to use\be aware of
  • States channel discipline\acceptable content


If this is the shape of things to come\improvements on "Operation Spectre" then I can only applaud Team Illuminati in getting their heads in the zone both in and out of the game. It should be an interesting event but we'll see how this is executed as it's the new customer base that it's aimed at and mostly exposed to this.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#143 - 2013-11-15 14:40:56 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
My previous post aside I'd like to draw some attention to this thread New Player Training Session: PvP Fleet! by CCP Eterne - Team Illuminati.

Now this is the same team that planned and executed (yes I said that) "Operation Spectre" so maybe, just maybe they've learnt something already as this post is:

  • Clear
  • Concise
  • Informative
  • States communications to use\be aware of
  • States channel discipline\acceptable content


If this is the shape of things to come\improvements on "Operation Spectre" then I can only applaud Team Illuminati in getting their heads in the zone both in and out of the game. It should be an interesting event but we'll see how this is executed as it's the new customer base that it's aimed at and mostly exposed to this.


Just to be clear, the new player training sessions are run by our Community department, not by the events team.

EDIT: Clarification - Eterne and Falcon are both in Community and on the events team

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#144 - 2013-11-15 14:56:05 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
RangerGord wrote:
Analysis of Feedback Post #130 and #131


A very thorough and in-depth analysis drawing on the same conclusions I did. Is CCP Goliath still cloaked in this thread and if so are you prepared to answer the more difficult questions that have been put to CCP?

I honestly think the people who need to "HTFU" (in the words of the Null Bloc) are CCP and start answering the questions that people have spent days of their own time trying to get answers to and thus finally draw a line and move on. Ducking and weaving around the more aggressive posters with genuine questions, concerns, grievances and complaints without out even so much of a "I firstly would like to apologise to anyone who may have been adversely affected either IG or IRL by CCP's actions either by a direct result or by omission in the course of this Live Event" might have gone some way to calm those people.

Instead I and, I imagine, others had to contact a member of the CSM to ensure that the incident and ensuing threadnaught did not go unanswered, when it was "answered" and feedback requested just to be ignored, and having to pursue answers yet again.

So what about it CCP? If you want to be transparent and have your clients engage you in the same manner and rebuild the trust for future Live Events then lets have an open and honest 'breakdown' and lets address not only this event but the follow up on it from CCP. What do you say?

Duel Invitation wrote:
"CCP, we challenge you to a duel. Accept this challenge and we will enter into open and honest communications during which period you can answer the questions, address the rumours\tinfoilhattery and forge a better experience for your clients"
A bit of humour is an otherwise very serious post.


I'm a little confused, so bear with me. The "threadnaught" was replied to, by me, on the day following the event. I explained that we were having a team retrospective on the event and didn't have anything to say at the time, but would be reading the thread and using it to inform our retrospective. Then the weekend happened, Monday was quiet, and then you and I engaged in some discourse on Twitter, following which I posted in the thread again explaining that we were releasing a devblog. Then the devblog got released and since then we've been monitoring this thread and replying to posts in it. If the issue is that we aren't directly replying to posts in the other threads, it's that keeping answers in one place is important and ensures that information isn't getting duplicated or lost.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#145 - 2013-11-15 15:07:20 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
My previous post aside I'd like to draw some attention to this thread New Player Training Session: PvP Fleet! by CCP Eterne - Team Illuminati.

Now this is the same team that planned and executed (yes I said that) "Operation Spectre" so maybe, just maybe they've learnt something already as this post is:

  • Clear
  • Concise
  • Informative
  • States communications to use\be aware of
  • States channel discipline\acceptable content


If this is the shape of things to come\improvements on "Operation Spectre" then I can only applaud Team Illuminati in getting their heads in the zone both in and out of the game. It should be an interesting event but we'll see how this is executed as it's the new customer base that it's aimed at and mostly exposed to this.


Just to be clear, the new player training sessions are run by our Community department, not by the events team.

EDIT: Clarification - Eterne and Falcon are both in Community and on the events team


/Hope. Ah well, still praise to them for the above as it's a really good thread. One thing I did like about "Operation Spectre" was the multi-outlet news. CCP Goliath caught my Tweet in response to the Tweet regarding it and I was stoked about the CTA...and it took me a while to fit something epic into 140 characters + damn hashtags.

Recommendation: Still do these! Do NOT stop using Twitter or Facebook or other social media streams for information\hyping BEFORE an event. Perhaps even use them before a Live Event Forum Thread goes up to rouse interest. But once it get's near to the LE\LE starts keep the information within the IG channels for immersion and sanity sake.

I do see how you view the Twitter trickle as successful (though I was against it as it favours the few) but it was a one time shot. People now know about that and will be watching which removes the need for it in the next one if you were planning on using it. Stick to the IG Channels and enforce\reinforce some discipline in those IG Channels. We know you can do it as we've seen it on SiSi with Mass Testing etc.

And that doesn't mean start using some fringe social media like whosay or Hi5 to try and get this result. I think we can make LE better and move forward and I know that's what I would like to see, successful and enjoyable LE that aren't a waste of time, that showcase the beautiful game that is EVE Online and the game styles of everyone.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#146 - 2013-11-15 15:18:09 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:


I'm a little confused, so bear with me. The "threadnaught" was replied to, by me, on the day following the event. I explained that we were having a team retrospective on the event and didn't have anything to say at the time, but would be reading the thread and using it to inform our retrospective. Then the weekend happened, Monday was quiet, and then you and I engaged in some discourse on Twitter, following which I posted in the thread again explaining that we were releasing a devblog. Then the devblog got released and since then we've been monitoring this thread and replying to posts in it. If the issue is that we aren't directly replying to posts in the other threads, it's that keeping answers in one place is important and ensures that information isn't getting duplicated or lost.


Please....

You guys responded within hours of the null sec node crash, but took a week to come up with a response that could be written by a 1st year marketing student.

Bottom line, you wasted 2-3 hours of a couple thousand player's time, led them to a certain death, bailed out at the end, and then broadcast the whole mess to your employees upstairs having a party.

I have asked this 3 times, and expect you to ignore the question yet again, but WHY were BOTH events set up in a null sec site? You could just as easily set one of them up in high sec or low sec. Especially from a lore perspective, given that ghost sites will be found in high sec also, and how the Rubicon trailer specifically mentions Empire representative's, a high sec or low sec site for one of these events would have been perfectly natural.

But no, you led 2 groups on hours-long Tidi'ed death marches, into the waiting guns of umpteen null sec groups, and broadcast the carnage for the entertainment of your party-goers.

I wonder why you would do that? Never mind, your actions explain explicitly why you set it up that way.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#147 - 2013-11-15 15:18:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Goliath wrote:
I'm a little confused, so bear with me. The "threadnaught" was replied to, by me, on the day following the event. I explained that we were having a team retrospective on the event and didn't have anything to say at the time, but would be reading the thread and using it to inform our retrospective. Then the weekend happened, Monday was quiet, and then you and I engaged in some discourse on Twitter, following which I posted in the thread again explaining that we were releasing a devblog. Then the devblog got released and since then we've been monitoring this thread and replying to posts in it. If the issue is that we aren't directly replying to posts in the other threads, it's that keeping answers in one place is important and ensures that information isn't getting duplicated or lost.


OK, I'll accept that and I'll rephrase what I am trying to say. I draw on Z9PP as it was on a Thursday as well (along with being a disaster for CCP and very fortunate\unfortunate for the alliances engaged in combat).

With regards to the speed at which CCP responded to the incident with Z9PP (turning the wrong node off) took 2 hours while in comparison to the 7 days for the "Operation Spectre" event. I would like to ask:

Q: Was the speed at which CCP responded to Z9PP plainly due to one being a technical fault and easy to identify and thus easy explain and apologise for?

Q: Was the length of time it took to get the "Operation Spectre" event Dev Blog out due to having to follow proper processes and procedures due to the complexity and complaints in the "threadnaught"?

Q: Why have you, or a representative of CCP, not apologised to the people who wasted hours of their RL time trying to add content and be part of something outright rather than one 'sorry' for a very specific thing.

I understand that you maybe restricted from answering certain questions (if the Dev Blog authorisation time is anything to go by) or if you aren't best placed to answer these specific questions then please do bring in those who are as you have previously. I believe CCP Phantom and CCP Falcon dealt with Z9PP for instance.

EDIT:

One further question for this moment:

Q (i): Was the CCP Party held on the same night the result of a scheduling clash?

Q (ii): Was the CCP Party scheduled before the LE was planned and just happened to fall on the same day?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#148 - 2013-11-15 15:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
My previous post aside I'd like to draw some attention to this thread New Player Training Session: PvP Fleet! by CCP Eterne - Team Illuminati.

Now this is the same team that planned and executed (yes I said that) "Operation Spectre" so maybe, just maybe they've learnt something already as this post is:

  • Clear
  • Concise
  • Informative
  • States communications to use\be aware of
  • States channel discipline\acceptable content


If this is the shape of things to come\improvements on "Operation Spectre" then I can only applaud Team Illuminati in getting their heads in the zone both in and out of the game. It should be an interesting event but we'll see how this is executed as it's the new customer base that it's aimed at and mostly exposed to this.


Just to be clear, the new player training sessions are run by our Community department, not by the events team.

EDIT: Clarification - Eterne and Falcon are both in Community and on the events team


/Hope. Ah well, still praise to them for the above as it's a really good thread. One thing I did like about "Operation Spectre" was the multi-outlet news. CCP Goliath caught my Tweet in response to the Tweet regarding it and I was stoked about the CTA...and it took me a while to fit something epic into 140 characters + damn hashtags.

Recommendation: Still do these! Do NOT stop using Twitter or Facebook or other social media streams for information\hyping BEFORE an event. Perhaps even use them before a Live Event Forum Thread goes up to rouse interest. But once it get's near to the LE\LE starts keep the information within the IG channels for immersion and sanity sake.

I do see how you view the Twitter trickle as successful (though I was against it as it favours the few) but it was a one time shot. People now know about that and will be watching which removes the need for it in the next one if you were planning on using it. Stick to the IG Channels and enforce\reinforce some discipline in those IG Channels. We know you can do it as we've seen it on SiSi with Mass Testing etc.

And that doesn't mean start using some fringe social media like whosay or Hi5 to try and get this result. I think we can make LE better and move forward and I know that's what I would like to see, successful and enjoyable LE that aren't a waste of time, that showcase the beautiful game that is EVE Online and the game styles of everyone.


Nicely put, Maximus, Posters such as yourself are of great value to us all.

CCP Goliath, I personally loathe Twitter, but if it is used Before the event, with the same information available through more normal channels I agree.
Ensure it does not become the only means though , or you miss out if you are not using it.

Maximus has the fact that live events are really important to EvE completely right.
they can be a wonderful showcase,and a tremendous experience if they work well. Lets have lots more, but in smaller "bites" rather than in one great lump.

Please do not be discouraged, but find a way that can work with what you have available, and then I am sure when Senior management sees the value and understands how much the community values them, they will allocate more to the team.

Just so I am not accused of being "unbalanced"Shocked You do need to correct the mistakes too, It has not been an easy time for anyone. I wish you success in this task.

EDIT: And Maximus, Your questions in the post above are very very applicable and relevant. I too would like to know. Thank you for asking so clearly.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Rosen Thornn
House of Nightshade
#149 - 2013-11-15 15:27:37 UTC
For any live event I always seem to miss them. Not blaming CCP sometimes its the timezone its in, others time is I have other things to do. And while I understand that a lot of work is involved with planning these I always wish I could do more.

This last event had the mysterious explosions out in Syndicate. Would it have been possible to put out exploration sites that had to be scanned down. When my ship gets there it starts taking sensor readings, saves a "data chip" in my cargo hold. I then bring this data chip to Concord or the University of Callie to help with thier investigations. Others could maybe bring their data chips to a pirate faction. There would be fights in Syndicate, content created and people would get participate in the event. This could be up for a few days giving people time to participate. If the "Good Guys" got more Data than the "Bag Guys" Event A would happen, if the "Bad Guys" got more Event B. Then you can do your Live Event.

Another example is after the titan crashed in the planet. Why couldn't I donante or ship aid to the planet? I would have gladly picked up a mission from an agent put in the system for a few days to deliver food and aid to them. Lets that agent is there for only 5 days, if so much aid is deliver than the rebuilding begins, people start getting back to normal. If they don't get enough it gets bad down there with looting and other bad things happening. All of this made possible by the players.

I won't pretend to know how difficult this would be to implament a system like this.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#150 - 2013-11-15 15:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Rosen Thornn wrote:
For any live event I always seem to miss them. Not blaming CCP sometimes its the timezone its in, others time is I have other things to do. And while I understand that a lot of work is involved with planning these I always wish I could do more.

This last event had the mysterious explosions out in Syndicate. Would it have been possible to put out exploration sites that had to be scanned down. When my ship gets there it starts taking sensor readings, saves a "data chip" in my cargo hold. I then bring this data chip to Concord or the University of Callie to help with thier investigations. Others could maybe bring their data chips to a pirate faction. There would be fights in Syndicate, content created and people would get participate in the event. This could be up for a few days giving people time to participate. If the "Good Guys" got more Data than the "Bag Guys" Event A would happen, if the "Bad Guys" got more Event B. Then you can do your Live Event.

Another example is after the titan crashed in the planet. Why couldn't I donante or ship aid to the planet? I would have gladly picked up a mission from an agent put in the system for a few days to deliver food and aid to them. Lets that agent is there for only 5 days, if so much aid is deliver than the rebuilding begins, people start getting back to normal. If they don't get enough it gets bad down there with looting and other bad things happening. All of this made possible by the players.

I won't pretend to know how difficult this would be to implament a system like this.

That is excellent
The Titan scenario particuarly.
Just the sort of event that could and should work.
Would please all time zones, not place a crapton of load on the servers, reinforces and builds on the lore and , lets players decide how to respond according to their abilities. Add in the industrial roles and everyone matters.throw in a few scope articles showing what is happening on planet to round out the storytelling.
This would also add a longterm feeling of immersion and having made a difference.
Excellent excellent excellent!
This is exactly how the player community can come out with stunning ideas.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#151 - 2013-11-15 16:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Rosen Thornn wrote:
For any live event I always seem to miss them. Not blaming CCP sometimes its the timezone its in, others time is I have other things to do. And while I understand that a lot of work is involved with planning these I always wish I could do more.

This last event had the mysterious explosions out in Syndicate. Would it have been possible to put out exploration sites that had to be scanned down. When my ship gets there it starts taking sensor readings, saves a "data chip" in my cargo hold. I then bring this data chip to Concord or the University of Callie to help with thier investigations. Others could maybe bring their data chips to a pirate faction. There would be fights in Syndicate, content created and people would get participate in the event. This could be up for a few days giving people time to participate. If the "Good Guys" got more Data than the "Bag Guys" Event A would happen, if the "Bad Guys" got more Event B. Then you can do your Live Event.

Another example is after the titan crashed in the planet. Why couldn't I donante or ship aid to the planet? I would have gladly picked up a mission from an agent put in the system for a few days to deliver food and aid to them. Lets that agent is there for only 5 days, if so much aid is deliver than the rebuilding begins, people start getting back to normal. If they don't get enough it gets bad down there with looting and other bad things happening. All of this made possible by the players.

I won't pretend to know how difficult this would be to implament a system like this.


Bravo! Now I know CCP like to steal our ideas (see Titan Bridging in Dev Blog Blink) but there is nothing wrong in taking and maybe even crediting particular ideas if they are used from the playerbase. Rosen has some very good ideas to get those Explorers out there into Hi\Low\Null\WH and maybe scare some Null Players into their POS ha ha. Seriously though, a fantastic example of bite size leading to something bigger that can be trickled out in News, Chronicles etc. (a bit like the Fleet into Doril Blink) but that can affect the outcome or fallout from the "Main Event" if you like.

Great stuff there Rosen.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#152 - 2013-11-15 16:12:10 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the speed at which CCP responded to Z9PP plainly due to one being a technical fault and easy to identify and thus easy explain and apologise for?

Z9PP shared almost no similarities with this. I really don't want to compare them.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the length of time it took to get the "Operation Spectre" event Dev Blog out due to having to follow proper processes and procedures due to the complexity and complaints in the "threadnaught"?

We wrote it on Monday, submitted it on Tuesday while adding more questions as they came up, got reviewed on Tuesday night, put edits and more questions in on Wednesday, then the Rubicon devblog went out a little late so we waited until Thursday to publish the event blog.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Why have you, or a representative of CCP, not apologised to the people who wasted hours of their RL time trying to add content and be part of something outright rather than one 'sorry' for a very specific thing.

My blog contains both apologies and explanations for failures in the event. I appreciate that may be a little impersonal for some, but in my opinion issues and problems are best dealt with by identifying them, confronting them, and working on fixing them than exchanging blame and apologies. The feedback has been received, and will be acted upon.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q (i): Was the CCP Party held on the same night the result of a scheduling clash?

I'm not sure how the "CCP Party" thing got started, but we held a player gathering in the office on the same evening as the event. They weren't connected and didn't have any impact on each other.

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#153 - 2013-11-15 16:22:11 UTC
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the speed at which CCP responded to Z9PP plainly due to one being a technical fault and easy to identify and thus easy explain and apologise for?

Z9PP shared almost no similarities with this. I really don't want to compare them.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the length of time it took to get the "Operation Spectre" event Dev Blog out due to having to follow proper processes and procedures due to the complexity and complaints in the "threadnaught"?

We wrote it on Monday, submitted it on Tuesday while adding more questions as they came up, got reviewed on Tuesday night, put edits and more questions in on Wednesday, then the Rubicon devblog went out a little late so we waited until Thursday to publish the event blog.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Why have you, or a representative of CCP, not apologised to the people who wasted hours of their RL time trying to add content and be part of something outright rather than one 'sorry' for a very specific thing.

My blog contains both apologies and explanations for failures in the event. I appreciate that may be a little impersonal for some, but in my opinion issues and problems are best dealt with by identifying them, confronting them, and working on fixing them than exchanging blame and apologies. The feedback has been received, and will be acted upon.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q (i): Was the CCP Party held on the same night the result of a scheduling clash?

I'm not sure how the "CCP Party" thing got started, but we held a player gathering in the office on the same evening as the event. They weren't connected and didn't have any impact on each other.


I appreciate the responses to this and I think that the last part will certainly clear a lot of speculation up. Your replies were well phrased and I liked the fact that you opened up to what the time line was on the Dev Blog coming out (I didn't realise that you had been adding into after it was submitted).

This is a much better way to end the week compared to last week and I hope that you feel so too. As Napoleon said at Waterloo "We must do better still. Courage mes braves: Let us advance!".

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#154 - 2013-11-15 16:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
I just wanted to quote the below because it should be noted in this thread:

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I really like the idea of multiple smaller events giving access to a final event based on previous success, means anyone can take part and those that prove their worth can get into the final area, with the greater rewards it brings...would give a much greater sense of achievement I think.

Large events should only be in response to player driven events like the one that made the news...though CCP would just love to recreate it they can't as it isn't possible to forcibly organize large groups of people. The massive battle that took place did so because two major combatants organized themselves...

regular events culminating in mid-scale fleet battles/research/explo would be much better for everyone and could run much more often


Large scale conflicts happen, without CCP driving them and in larger numbers than CCP could ever hope to organise in an LE (and that's not a bashing but imagine >4000 players in an LE). Right now, and I think they will agree, they need to focus on getting it right and not getting it big to make headlines which is to be encouraged.

The "War Effort" or bitesize LE event ideas I absolutly love. Like the Sanctuary Image Contest it was available to all over a long time frame (1 week for each section of images) which prevented any single group from ambushing the event (unless they camped it for a week Blink).

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#155 - 2013-11-15 16:39:20 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
I just wanted to quote the below because it should be noted in this thread:

Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I really like the idea of multiple smaller events giving access to a final event based on previous success, means anyone can take part and those that prove their worth can get into the final area, with the greater rewards it brings...would give a much greater sense of achievement I think.

Large events should only be in response to player driven events like the one that made the news...though CCP would just love to recreate it they can't as it isn't possible to forcibly organize large groups of people. The massive battle that took place did so because two major combatants organized themselves...

regular events culminating in mid-scale fleet battles/research/explo would be much better for everyone and could run much more often


Large scale conflicts happen, without CCP driving them and in larger numbers than CCP could ever hope to organise in an LE (and that's not a bashing but imagine >4000 players in an LE). Right now, and I think they will agree, they need to focus on getting it right and not getting it big to make headlines which is to be encouraged.

The "War Effort" or bitesize LE event ideas I absolutly love. Like the Sanctuary Image Contest it was available to all over a long time frame (1 week for each section of images) which prevented any single group from ambushing the event (unless they camped it for a week Blink).


There were more than 4k players attempting to get involved in BFCP. We are pretty sure there were more than 4k trying to get involved in this too. On the subject of small events, are you all familiar with the small events that we ran from October 2012 until approximately July of this year?

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#156 - 2013-11-15 16:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
CCP Goliath wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the speed at which CCP responded to Z9PP plainly due to one being a technical fault and easy to identify and thus easy explain and apologise for?

Z9PP shared almost no similarities with this. I really don't want to compare them.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Was the length of time it took to get the "Operation Spectre" event Dev Blog out due to having to follow proper processes and procedures due to the complexity and complaints in the "threadnaught"?

We wrote it on Monday, submitted it on Tuesday while adding more questions as they came up, got reviewed on Tuesday night, put edits and more questions in on Wednesday, then the Rubicon devblog went out a little late so we waited until Thursday to publish the event blog.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Why have you, or a representative of CCP, not apologised to the people who wasted hours of their RL time trying to add content and be part of something outright rather than one 'sorry' for a very specific thing.

My blog contains both apologies and explanations for failures in the event. I appreciate that may be a little impersonal for some, but in my opinion issues and problems are best dealt with by identifying them, confronting them, and working on fixing them than exchanging blame and apologies. The feedback has been received, and will be acted upon.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q (i): Was the CCP Party held on the same night the result of a scheduling clash?

I'm not sure how the "CCP Party" thing got started, but we held a player gathering in the office on the same evening as the event. They weren't connected and didn't have any impact on each other.


Thanks for that, I understand.
I agree that identifying, confronting and fixing problems is absolutely the right thing to do.
It would benefit no one to have anyone in CCP having to grovel in abject apology and then humiliated for public entertainment.
In my mind you are confirming and clarifying a clear intention to put things right and a clear expression of regret that things went wrong.I find that an entirely reasonable apology.
The party thing was I believe unfortunate, as it fed into the idea that had come about that a group within CCP were sacrificing a Section of the player community and enjoying it.

I am very pleased to hear your confirmation that, that was not the case.

There are I am sure Internal lessons and issues regarding who did what and for whatever reason in the company.
CCP can and should conduct those in private.
They are not our concern.

I do see in the statements and your replies to people, that you are restating that CCP believe EvE is for all players and that all players are respected and wanted. I am very pleased to see that.

We are unfortunately told in almost every post the opposite by certain sections of the community.

This is the propaganda and poison that underlied a large part of the fury that came your way.

How it initially came about I really do not know, it has been there for a long time now.

It was unfortunate in the extreme for all of us that the live event played straight into these concerns. It is a very toxic belief.

I am asking for nothing now beyond the promises and responses you have given , I believe it is time to move on, but I do recommend a suggestion..

Once this has died down CCP should make it clear beyond doubt that they have a commitment to all sections of the player community and respect all play-styles and choices. And any other impression is false.

It will prevent this issue from flaring up in future and will give us hundreds of fewer pages of the forum being disrupted with die carebear die, eve is hard and HTFU you are not wanted.


Thank you for all your efforts.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#157 - 2013-11-15 16:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Goliath wrote:
There were more than 4k players attempting to get involved in BFCP. We are pretty sure there were more than 4k trying to get involved in this too. On the subject of small events, are you all familiar with the small events that we ran from October 2012 until approximately July of this year?


Snipped for length.

In all honesty no I wasn't. I knew about BFCP but it kicked off when I had to work and I've only managed to get involved in the SoE SIC one.

I fully intend on getting in (in some way or another) the PvP School on Saturday and go down in a ball of flame as I hear -Player PvP Community- are planning a roam to engage it once it gets going.

EDIT: Also apologies for crap-stat posting\capacity posting. Wasn't intended as a troll or bash but attempting isn't quite the same as co-ordinating and involving. I'd love to see more community members who are experts in this kind of thing helping out and stepping into actor\FC roles. Could be something really exciting and engaging.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Killerjock
Von Neumann Industries
#158 - 2013-11-15 16:53:14 UTC
Quote:
Actor/FC example is the easiest to deal with - if you're trying to do 2 things and neither of those things are compatible, you don't do one well and the other not at all, you do them both to a mediocre standard. Multitasking is bad at the best of times, but in a high stress situation it's too high a cost to bear.


Now I have to wonder - there was one CCP FC in the whole event as far as we've got. That means 3 of them should've been free from that burden. Yet the complaint is about story not being delivered; also people claim the actors were not flying in tidi with the rest of the group.
So, this doesn't seem to hold water.

Also, I'm still wondering about the idea of spawning vindis and machs on the pirate side and nothing on the empire side; we had a long route and we haven't got any support. I don't think I'm ready to believe you were so oblivious to the facts of eve to believe the pirate side needed help....?

Quote:
The use of Twitter was absolutely a success, for the purpose that it was used for - to prevent a potential server calamity. Did it negatively impact the event? Can certainly be argued that it did. Did it affect our plans? Absolutely. Did we have time to do anything else? No.


You've got a big bunch of people - you tell some on one corner that they are giving away free bacon on the other side of the room - those people start running and trample the others, who don't get the bacon and get hurt in the process. Some of them did not even know there was bacon, because the info didn't reach them.
Now you go to them and tell them that hey, I'm sorry you didn't get the bacon and you got hurt. But the strategy worked, we didn't have enough bacon for everyone; at least this way some of you got the bacon.

See, I understand that you've actually reached your goal with your strategy and prevented worse thing from happening. But consider this approach instead:
"This was a blunder - we made some bad judgement calls. This caused you to be trampled and others to get the bacon. Seemed like a good idea at the time, I'm sorry it negatively impacted you; if we hadn't, the results would've been worse."

-- THIS approach doesn't claim "it was a success and too bad for you" - this approach takes responsibility for the hurt feelings, which is really all we could expect: no one can give us back the time we spent or cancel the frustration, and we don't want the ships back.
Yet CCP, after 7 days of consideration, gave us a "heh, too bad, **** happens". I hope I made it a bit more clear why we aren't happy.

CCP Goliath wrote:
Sorry if you think I'm trying to doublespeak you, but I'm genuinely not.


It's nothing personal really. I'm sorry if it sounds that way, but the communication hasn't eased much; it downplays most of our more solid concerns, and "mistake" doesn't really cut it.
To be honest, trying to explain it away hardly helps - the threadnought should be proof enough.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#159 - 2013-11-15 17:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
CCP Goliath wrote:

The issue you are describing with the lack of exposition is, we believe, a direct result of three issues - having actors also being FCs, thus distracting them from acting, excess chat in channels obfuscating what was said by them, and not having a pre-event blog detailing what the "story so far" has been and how players can get involved and keep up to date with the ongoing story during the event. These are definitely areas we can improve on next time and we know how we want to try and do that. Twitter wasn't used to advance the storyline, so no concerns there. The channel situation you describe is definitely a solution we're looking at.


Thank you for answering this and adressing the concerns about lack of event/lorebuilding/explanation.

Splitting the task of FC/Live event actor would indeed help a great deal, especially as being an FC can be a daunting task in a fleet with little experienced members. Such act would also allow the Live event actor to focus on playing out the event, and free up time to use tools associated to enhance the event if required.

A pre-event blog would be a great help to alert people of 'possible' events somewhere (not encessery, but could hint that an event might happen).

A few recent examples:
-the Elokur trial newspost resulted in a player-organized protest at the date mentioned, as it was possible CCP could have something planned there. While CCP had nothing planned as Live event in the system, it was still seen as a great succes.

-The Mysterious explosion in serpentis space saw dozens of people scan out the area in case something had happened they could spot. Ultimatly there was nothing. (this newsreport, in hindsight was probably a sort of pre-event newsmessage for this live event, albeit the link wasn't made clear during the event till late)

-Disseparance of Heth, wrecks left newspost: got also quite some players scouting out the area for hints.

These 3 examples show that simple newsposts already get players moving to investigate the area. For launching small events on a more notable scale, pre-event newsposts could be a good way to raise awareness more to them. Note: don't call for a gathering directly, unless you want a large-scale event, as that will result in mass gatherings and hence TiDi.

Another way to gather attention for events on a smaller scale is to inform loyalists (from the WHo do you support thread in Live events) trough the Eve-mail system that their faction is going to do something in an hour or so (more warning risks again massive attendance, unless that's what you aim for ofc)

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Jason Atavuli
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2013-11-15 17:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Atavuli
@ CCP Goliath & the rest of the team

Thanx for trying to stage a big event like this guys.

I see an 8-page long wall of text that I only read about half way so I'm guessing someone's mentioned this already, but I'll add weight to it . . .

While I did consider joining the event myself stuff got in the way.


My first thought when I heard from where to where was, why are they all the schlepping to a RAZOR/CFC staging system? Is RAZOR playing along or is everyone attending the event as good as podded already?

This event was just a big co-op mission right?

So maybe next time . . .

Everyone in the staging system docks up and talks to the special empire mission agent, and accepts the special event mission.

They undock, and warp to the mission rally point co-ordinates near a big accelerator at the appointed time.

FC unlocks the gate, everyone hits "D" and goes hauling off into some far flung Deadspace pocket (far enough to be considered beyond the system & concord) to face the scripted mission rats and hostile players.

On the other side of the fence, everyone who wants to help the pirates talks to an agent in the low sec system next door, maybe plays the station undock minigame with some new friends to kill time, then warps to their accelerator at the appointed time and when the FC calls it, hits the accelerator and goes for it...

The mission pocket can have 2 return gates to, 1 open to Rat friendlies, the other to Empire friendlies allowing you to reship or get back into the fight if you get popped.

This sort of thing could even open the way to a squad duel . . . I'm sure there are HS players & corps who'd like to take a crack at those other guys who are always running their sites . . .
.