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[Rubicon] T3 Subsystem re-fitting in space

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Konstantin Panfilov
Alpha Company
#141 - 2013-11-08 17:27:07 UTC
I change subsystem and all module off.
I don`t like it.
Weddis
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2013-11-08 17:46:24 UTC
After subsystem re-fit my turrets were dissaperared :(
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#143 - 2013-11-08 17:48:08 UTC
All outward systems that were displayed on the hull dissapeared when I refitted. Worked well with the rest of the refitting.
Targan Yaken
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2013-11-08 17:54:12 UTC
Swapping out subsystems from the Orca worked without a hitch, in case of slot layout changes the extra module would simply be but into my cargohold.

Refitting that module from cargohold, using the Orca fitting service, also worked without a hitch.

Looking forward to seeing these changes live.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#145 - 2013-11-08 20:58:40 UTC
I could swap subsystems just fine. The glitches I did notice:

My guns disappeared from my ship, as seen in space ( they were still fitted, could still be fired).
When I changed an offensive system all my modules went offline and had to be manually turned back on. Defensive and electronic refits did not do that.
A refit that removed a module: It took about 60 seconds for the module to turn up in my cargo.

The orca providing fitting service, flown by CCP, left before I could finish replacing my drone damage mod.

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Vihura
Vihura Cor
#146 - 2013-11-11 16:39:35 UTC
Angry Mustache wrote:
I feel an important point raised by Laz has been buried by all the exuberance, and this change, along with yurts, has a very significant effect on the meta-game.

this comes from 3 main points.

-All T3's have cloak / interdiction nullifier subsystems, Cloak allows T3's to be bridged in via Black ops, ignoring cynojammers and giving these ships superb mobility. Interdiction nullifier allows T3's to escape from virtually any engagement. The drawback is that using these 2 subsystems cripples the ability of T3's to fight.

-All T3's have excellent combat subsystems. There are arguments to be made about whether Strategic Cruisers are the single most powerful subcap type in a fleet fight, but combat fit T3's are easily able to hold their ground against "conventional" fleets.

-Mobile Depots allow players to refit with no prior preparation, no need to set up a safe tower in advance, or an available station.

This means T3's can refit from Travel to Combat and vice versa in a hostile system without any support/preparation.

So what are the implications of this? Extremely mobile T3 fleets that can be bridged anywhere with a Blops, refit in system to combat for whatever they have to fight, if the fight goes badly, drop yurt in combat and refit to Nullifier to moonwalk out. Once fighting is done or fleet has left field, bridge back with a Black ops.

It all sounds awesome and cool, but I don't believe for a second that this will be "balanced". Traditionally T3's have been balanced by having the possibility to do a lot of jobs, but not all at once. With mobile depots, they basically can do everything at once. This change will completely obsolete Blops battleships and Recons in their combat roles.

If these changes go live as is, expect a massive arms race between all Nullsec Alliances to see who can put together the biggest fleet of black ops T3s.

And what is problem exacly? no more afk ratting in deep null space ?
Proddy Scun
Doomheim
#147 - 2013-11-15 02:43:24 UTC
This solution is so late that is now Sub-optimal.

What everyone wants now is the T4 version with strategic cruisers having built in fitting service:

where you can load up any number of T3 fits of modules and subsections into your ship

and with a press of a button switch between stored fits in 30 seconds base time
(and lowered by 5 seconds per level of Transformer skill).


I understand that there are 3 version of this T4 ship planned: plain, Autobot (with special hauler disguise fitting), and Deceptigon version (with special Noctis salvager disguise fitting)


ROFLMAO


(someone is always unsatisfied with the current solution)
Udonor
Doomheim
#148 - 2013-11-15 03:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Udonor
Vihura wrote:
Angry Mustache wrote:
I feel an important point raised by Laz has been buried by all the exuberance, and this change, along with yurts, has a very significant effect on the meta-game.

this comes from 3 main points.

-All T3's have cloak / interdiction nullifier subsystems, Cloak allows T3's to be bridged in via Black ops, ignoring cynojammers and giving these ships superb mobility. Interdiction nullifier allows T3's to escape from virtually any engagement. The drawback is that using these 2 subsystems cripples the ability of T3's to fight.

-All T3's have excellent combat subsystems. There are arguments to be made about whether Strategic Cruisers are the single most powerful subcap type in a fleet fight, but combat fit T3's are easily able to hold their ground against "conventional" fleets.

-Mobile Depots allow players to refit with no prior preparation, no need to set up a safe tower in advance, or an available station.

This means T3's can refit from Travel to Combat and vice versa in a hostile system without any support/preparation.

So what are the implications of this? Extremely mobile T3 fleets that can be bridged anywhere with a Blops, refit in system to combat for whatever they have to fight, if the fight goes badly, drop yurt in combat and refit to Nullifier to moonwalk out. Once fighting is done or fleet has left field, bridge back with a Black ops.

It all sounds awesome and cool, but I don't believe for a second that this will be "balanced". Traditionally T3's have been balanced by having the possibility to do a lot of jobs, but not all at once. With mobile depots, they basically can do everything at once. This change will completely obsolete Blops battleships and Recons in their combat roles.

If these changes go live as is, expect a massive arms race between all Nullsec Alliances to see who can put together the biggest fleet of black ops T3s.

And what is problem exacly? no more afk ratting in deep null space ?


EVE is NOT really intended to be balanced in the sense of EQUALITY. Such games are BORING. EVE flourishes because there are uber fits and yet the option for plenty of people to choose the suboptimal target ships. If you are stupid and unprotected by uber fleets, you will die easy. Just like RL. And yet some such target ships must exist to build the uber fit ships. Pilots who are happy in this role get off on being submissive and sacrificial (carebears). Everyone else not in uber fits is merely an entertaining fool and target. And fools are easily replaced -- "one born every minute in EVE". that's 1440 per day - so fools will never be in short supply. CCP does not need to cater to fools.

Plus I note that even generic fools will get a few T3 kills specifically due to the new rules. Because a few fools will get into T3s. And guess what happens if your refit overloads cargo? Yup that ship will probably be paralyzed target until it can eject excess cargo or move it to the yurt.

Plus think about fleet use of yurts in the midlde of combat. Either the loser leaves behind hundreds of mobile depots or they end up hanging around battlefield for days recovering mobile depots. So either all those mobile depots are lost (and give up some loot) or those T3 fleets will not be very mobile between battles after all.

So if you don't like the MEAN game CCP presents and want to quit -- good riddance and not sorry to see your backside one final time. You will be replaced by the next generation of noobs and not missed.
Eternal Montage
Myriad Sequence
#149 - 2013-11-15 05:56:48 UTC
Angry Mustache wrote:
I feel an important point raised by Laz has been buried by all the exuberance, and this change, along with yurts, has a very significant effect on the meta-game.

this comes from 3 main points.

-All T3's have cloak / interdiction nullifier subsystems, Cloak allows T3's to be bridged in via Black ops, ignoring cynojammers and giving these ships superb mobility. Interdiction nullifier allows T3's to escape from virtually any engagement. The drawback is that using these 2 subsystems cripples the ability of T3's to fight.

-All T3's have excellent combat subsystems. There are arguments to be made about whether Strategic Cruisers are the single most powerful subcap type in a fleet fight, but combat fit T3's are easily able to hold their ground against "conventional" fleets.

-Mobile Depots allow players to refit with no prior preparation, no need to set up a safe tower in advance, or an available station.

This means T3's can refit from Travel to Combat and vice versa in a hostile system without any support/preparation.

So what are the implications of this? Extremely mobile T3 fleets that can be bridged anywhere with a Blops, refit in system to combat for whatever they have to fight, if the fight goes badly, drop yurt in combat and refit to Nullifier to moonwalk out. Once fighting is done or fleet has left field, bridge back with a Black ops.

It all sounds awesome and cool, but I don't believe for a second that this will be "balanced". Traditionally T3's have been balanced by having the possibility to do a lot of jobs, but not all at once. With mobile depots, they basically can do everything at once. This change will completely obsolete Blops battleships and Recons in their combat roles.

If these changes go live as is, expect a massive arms race between all Nullsec Alliances to see who can put together the biggest fleet of black ops T3s.


I agree... BUT maybe it won't be the case cuz can't you just D-scan the mobile depots and bring the fight to them as the T3s are waiting for the depots to warm up? It says in their description they take a certain amount of time to activate once deployed but can be scooped instantly. So obviously you'd be able to scan them down and prevent the t3s from even having an opportunity to refit, or perhaps catching them amidst their refit.

I think if this works how I imagine it in my head, mobile depots will be slow and obvious when a fleet is using them. You see local fill up, suddenly you see your d scan fill up with depots, a few dozen t3s appear and disappear, then two minutes later, or however long it will take for the depots to activate you'll see the t3s at the depots again, AND THEN they warp to you. I fail to see the element of surprise. Sure you could get around easily and change fittings which is awesome, but these t3 fleets aren't going to render Blops obsolete. Blops is much faster and sneakier.

Furthermore I don't see how you guys fail to see the counter-play opportunities in this. Depot fights are going to be awesome!
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#150 - 2013-11-15 15:06:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Vyger wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
once scooped makes it impractical to hold the subsystems there either.
If the mobile depot were to only be able to hold modules, charges, drones, and subsystems but could retain them when scooped it may prove to be an effective change.


You basically want to be able to scoop your depot and have it retain its cargo. In other words you want 3000m3 worth of stuff to fit in 50m3 worth of your ship's cargo hold.

That doesn't seem completely ridiculous to you?


Can already do it with secure cans. GSC lets you put 3900m3 into 3000m3. But 3000m3 inside 50m3 of your ship's cargo would be pretty ridiculous. I think the point was to allow you to refit those big modules. Not necessarily move them around from system to system. 'Tis a good design choice.

You know, it takes a bit of time for those depots to online. I haven't tested them yet. But if I'm not mistaken, they will come online with 0 shields. c/d?

If I were an FC fighting vs a T3 fleet that suddenly decided to hot swap in a fight, I would literally order my fleet to free-fire on the yurts. The possibility of popping them while nerds are swapping mods or even subsystems is too good to pass up. Remember that your subsystems give you things like armor, shields, sensor strength, PG, CPU, and slots. Not just the special abilities like covert cloaks and interdiction nullification.

Imagine if you're swapping your Tengu's offensive subsystem from cloaky to accelerated ejection bay and suddenly your yurt goes offline/get popped. You now have 1 high slot.

Worse, what if this happened while swapping your propulsion subsystem? Congrats, you just 90% webbed yourself.

God forbid if you should get caught while swapping engineering or electronics subsystems. Suddenly you go to 0 PG or CPU and all your modules go offline. gg

Lets say they're just refitting to better hardeners for my fleet comp when I start shooting the yurts. Now a good number of them will have empty slots.

I'm not saying this can't be done successfully. Only that the odds of getting caught with your pants literally around your ankles are very good. So don't complain when someone yells "Surprise! Butt-sex!"

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