These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

RLML - complete FAILURE

Author
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-11-14 06:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Trix
Is it a joke or something.

40 Second Load Time
18 Shots


Just logged into SISI after I heard CCP was nerfing the Rapid Lights.... They didn't nerf them, they removed them completely from use for any but a wanna-be missile ganker.... if there is such a thing.


Does CCP realize there are other people playing this game besides PVP players, and I can't imagine a PVP player fitting these piles of garbage.


It was the best Missile weapon in game and they pulled it.... I am blown away at this..

Don't give a rats who trolls this thread...... takes all the wind out of my Cerberus Pilots sails.
Jaz Antollare
SovNarKom.
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-11-14 12:17:15 UTC
You said it.
Kara Trix wrote:
Is it a joke or something.

It was the best Missile weapon in game and they pulled it.... I am blown away at this..


They do almost the same dps if you count in all factors, but now they do it in a BURST, whats the problem for your pve?
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#3 - 2013-11-14 12:33:17 UTC
Just ignore them - as we do with many other in-game features.

P.S. 40 sec load time? It's strange even by CCP's standards.
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-11-14 12:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Trix
Jaz Antollare wrote:
You said it.
Kara Trix wrote:
Is it a joke or something.

It was the best Missile weapon in game and they pulled it.... I am blown away at this..


They do almost the same dps if you count in all factors, but now they do it in a BURST, whats the problem for your pve?


Try to use them for PVE now where there are 30 targets at a time to kill, and many of them frig size. Wait the 40 seconds for the reload, only to get 18 shots and then reload again for another 40 seconds....repeat, etc.

It's no longer a weapon to use for PVE in any situation on any ship due to the small charge cap and reload time.

Pre-Rubicon they hold 80 shots and my Cerb insta pops most frigs with one shot.... you do the math....

Most of the time it's targeting the ship that takes the longest.

So now I will use HAMS on the Cerb... it's a fix for me, but still effectively removed RLML
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2013-11-14 15:32:50 UTC
wow that is a crazy nerf.

Guess you'll need something else to do your 4/10s

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#6 - 2013-11-14 16:46:39 UTC
Kara Trix wrote:


Try to use them for PVE now where there are 30 targets at a time to kill, and many of them frig size. Wait the 40 seconds for the reload, only to get 18 shots and then reload again for another 40 seconds....repeat, etc.

Pre-Rubicon they hold 80 shots and my Cerb insta pops most frigs with one shot.... you do the math....


Okay then, here's some maths. Your conditions are 30 targets, each one requiring a single volley.

Current triple-BCS Cerb ROF is 4.03 s. 30 volleys are required, this takes 121 s.

Future triple-BCS Cerb ROF is 2.62 s. 18 volleys kill 18 frigates, this takes 47 s. Add 40 s reload, then add 12 x 2.62 s = 31.4 s to kill remaining frigates. Sum is 119 s.

Hmmm. Lol





I was a bit unfair here actually, I tweaked your "most" and "many" into absolutes. Still, it's your own fault for citing target numbers that favour the front-loaded damage.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#7 - 2013-11-14 19:12:18 UTC
They changed RLMLs I think because they want more people to branch out into using HMLs and HAMs more.

The problem wasn't that RLMLs were too good. The problem is that they massively overnerfed HMLs last year and didn't budge afterwards, and as a result HMLS are pretty much the worst weapon system in the game (I think medium rails are almost barely usable now so there's less contention between the two), and then also that HAMs have poor range and, much like HMLs, suffer from poor damage application. You need a painter/web in order to make either cruiser missile system more than laughably ineffective against certain targets, and... Oh look. Most missile ships shield tank. Oh, look at this. Webs and painters cut into your tank. So you need to trade survivability for damage application- a problem that most turret based ships do not have because they also just happen to armor tank, meaning mids are free for whatever.

IIRC most cruisers even can easily mitigate damage coming from HMLs and HAMs, which... Are fit by cruisers. RLMLs didn't do loads of paper damage but they at least applied a very good amount of that, to more targets, which made them a more attractive weapon system.
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-11-14 19:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Trix
Gypsio III wrote:

I was a bit unfair here actually, I tweaked your "most" and "many" into absolutes. Still, it's your own fault for citing target numbers that favour the front-loaded damage.


Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....

RLML no longer will work period.... the reload and overall DPS hit make them unusable.
You are completely missing the overall DPS over time variable. .... so it's a 20% hit from what I've read.
It's no longer a viable option to fit, when there are better weapons.

no big deal really, as I've fit HAMS now on my CERB... and they seem to work fine only I can no longer hit frigs at 80km.

The point is .... again ... why did CCP remove this weapon completely from use?

I will bet the farm that they will no longer be used anywhere is game that they are now.

No one will be willing to WAIT 40 Seconds for a reload... no way! It's crazy boring!!!!

Almost like being ECM'd to death!

PS.. I also made the mistake to skill a toon for HRML before I found out about this 40 sec waste... so I would like my one month skill time back please.... i'll take 1m SP and we'll call it even.... :o)
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#9 - 2013-11-14 21:03:15 UTC
Kara Trix wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:

I was a bit unfair here actually, I tweaked your "most" and "many" into absolutes. Still, it's your own fault for citing target numbers that favour the front-loaded damage.


Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....


I know this, I was just amused that you stated a scenario where, actually, they wouldn't be worse. Lol
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#10 - 2013-11-14 22:41:46 UTC
Jaz Antollare wrote:


They do almost the same dps if you count in all factors


No they dont.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#11 - 2013-11-14 23:12:03 UTC
Quote:
Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....


RLMLs are not supposed to be good at killing bigger ships. That's what HMLs/HAMs are for.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-11-15 00:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Kara Trix wrote:

Does CCP realize there are other people playing this game besides PVP players....



http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/a/image/1340/92/1340929227145.jpg

Would have been sooner, but I missed the corp name.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#13 - 2013-11-15 00:22:57 UTC
CCP has lost touch with reality with these changes in my honest opinion. And they don't give a **** what we think clearly.
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-15 01:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Trix
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....


RLMLs are not supposed to be good at killing bigger ships. That's what HMLs/HAMs are for.


In the current state (pre Rebicon), I get 400 clean DPS from my Cerb and hit out to 80km with my RLML.
They work great... insta pop frigs and good on cruisers, just takes some time on BS's, but that's when I write posts in the forum since the BS do Zero damage to my Cerb while I just orbit them.

it's my solitaire game... with missiles

Now I have to fit HAMS, pay closer attention and fit Rigors...... ick!!

RLML were just so dang clean... with 80 Missiles and Frig killers... fast reloads, fast cycle times, small grid requirements.... blah., blah ... blah..... I have a tear!
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-11-15 01:32:34 UTC
Kara Trix wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....


RLMLs are not supposed to be good at killing bigger ships. That's what HMLs/HAMs are for.


In the current state (pre Rebicon), I get 400 clean DPS from my Cerb and hit out to 80km with my RLML.
They work great... insta pop frigs and good on cruisers, just takes some time on BS's, but that's when I write posts in the forum since the BS do Zero damage to my Cerb while I just orbit them.

it's my solitaire game... with missiles

Now I have to fit HAMS, pay closer attention and fit Rigors...... ick!!

RLML were just so dang clean... with 80 Missiles and Frig killers... fast reloads, fast cycle times, small grid requirements.... blah., blah ... blah..... I have a tear!


So your complaint is that they made a certain module better at its intended role, but worse for off-label purposes and, because of this, you have to actually play the game instead of AFKing your way through missions.

This might just be the very best entitlement-bear post of all time.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Denuo Secus
#16 - 2013-11-15 01:38:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Just split your RLMLs in two stacks. That way you get continuous damage again, ofc a bit less as before. Which is ok for me. RLMLs are meant to deal with small ships, which is still possible. Now with (optional) burst damage.

Instead I'd really like to use HMLs on a Cerb or Caracal. That's the real issue imho. RLMLs are used that often because HMLs are really bad for a solo PvPer (they just need too much support). HAMs may work on a Cerb but on a Caracal you cannot fit a tank + HAMs at the same time.
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade
#17 - 2013-11-15 03:08:27 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Just split your RLMLs in two stacks. That way you get continuous damage again, ofc a bit less as before. Which is ok for me. RLMLs are meant to deal with small ships, which is still possible. Now with (optional) burst damage.

Instead I'd really like to use HMLs on a Cerb or Caracal. That's the real issue imho. RLMLs are used that often because HMLs are really bad for a solo PvPer (they just need too much support). HAMs may work on a Cerb but on a Caracal you cannot fit a tank + HAMs at the same time.


If you do that the nerf to sustained DPS is pretty massive.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#18 - 2013-11-15 12:46:41 UTC
Kara Trix wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the insight, but you are completely wrong.
If it was just 30 frigs, that's fine..... but Lvl 4's have ships much larger.... maybe even a Battleship or twelve....


RLMLs are not supposed to be good at killing bigger ships. That's what HMLs/HAMs are for.


In the current state (pre Rebicon), I get 400 clean DPS from my Cerb and hit out to 80km with my RLML.
They work great... insta pop frigs and good on cruisers, just takes some time on BS's, but that's when I write posts in the forum since the BS do Zero damage to my Cerb while I just orbit them.

it's my solitaire game... with missiles

Now I have to fit HAMS, pay closer attention and fit Rigors...... ick!!

RLML were just so dang clean... with 80 Missiles and Frig killers... fast reloads, fast cycle times, small grid requirements.... blah., blah ... blah..... I have a tear!


So your primary complaint is that the change takes away your ability to easy-mode the game?

Ok?
Kara Trix
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-11-15 16:56:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Trix
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


So your primary complaint is that the change takes away your ability to easy-mode the game?

Ok?



No where did I say I was right...... and I accept that CCP "Gives" and then they "Take Away".

Just saying "To Complain" is my voice of my gaming experience.

So for me, they removed the weapons use, but I may have another character down the line that might find some VERY limited use for this new weapon.

This is just no longer a PVE weapon, but perhaps it wasn't meant to be that.
I play this game in sessions, play it heavy for a few months, then don't play for a year, then back again.
This last time around I discovered this new RAPID weapon when I logged in and fell in love with it... (yes, you can love an electronic weapon, if you game).... the romance is over - that's all... I figure I have a few more months, then off again I go to some other games for a years break...
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-11-15 18:22:46 UTC
I use them as a secondary weapon system. Ie on Hyperion. I have 6 large blasters, then one rapid light launcher to help the drones swat frigates and light ships while the blasters are working on the large ships.

"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you."

12Next page