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Dev Blog: Better Living Through Mobile Structures

First post First post
Author
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#21 - 2013-11-13 18:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Quote:
The Cyno Inhibitor also cannot be deployed in any location where its area of effect would overlap with another identical module.

Overlap... by how much?

If it cannot overlap at all, this means the best way to prepare to defend a structure you are deploying capitals for is to make sure you have a mobile cyno jammer whose field is TANGENT to the structure when the enemy shows up in force. This way it would be impossible to prevent capitals from cynoing in from more than at most a couple tens of kilometers from the center point.

Is this the intentional design, or are they allowed to overlap by 50km, or what's the thinking here? Is the thinking "just blow up the enemy jammer and place a centered one"?



Additionally, what is the behavior of loot drops when a mobile depot is destroyed? Trying to be back in a 10 minute window 48 hours later is hard enough all on its own, just to kill one that nobody cares about defending... if they have a shield repper in there to refit, it'll be even more of a pain. Hopefully there is motivation to follow through and get some loot for your efforts...?

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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
#22 - 2013-11-13 18:37:07 UTC
Naes Mlahrend wrote:
So if I complete a site and drop a tractor unit, will it continue to function while I warp to station and grab a noctis?


You could also drop a mobile depot and refit salvagers.

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Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#23 - 2013-11-13 18:45:00 UTC
What I'd like to see for a future re-kit of Mobile Warp Disruptors, if possible, would be to work with this new "drag and drop" system, and then have a menu option allowing corp/alliance mates to scoop it later if they so choose (so that you can deploy it quickly, but also don't have to be there to pick it up again). I understand the allowance of others to scoop it is less relevant for t1 smalls, but if I decide to anchor a t2 large on a gate to screen a mining op and I have to log, I don't want to lose my t2 large just because no one else can pick it up again.
Syri Taneka
NOVA-CAINE
#24 - 2013-11-13 18:47:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Syri Taneka
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Quote:
The Cyno Inhibitor also cannot be deployed in any location where its area of effect would overlap with another identical module.

Overlap... by how much?

If it cannot overlap at all, this means the best way to prepare to defend a structure you are deploying capitals for is to make sure you have a mobile cyno jammer whose field is TANGENT to the structure when the enemy shows up in force. This way it would be impossible to prevent capitals from cynoing in from more than at most a couple tens of kilometers from the center point.

Is this the intentional design, or are they allowed to overlap by 50km, or what's the thinking here?


Probably intentional, creates a curved diamond of "safe" space to jump into if you carpet the field with them. However, as noted, the total EHP value is only on par with a buffer BS, so your opponents don't have to field much to alpha the things and open up the field again.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#25 - 2013-11-13 18:54:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
CCP Masterplan wrote:
I hope you like our latest work. Looking forward to seeing this hit TQ

Altrue wrote:

2- Along with the "why would we bother shooting it" is also the question of how long will the depot stay between 0 and 25% shields ?

2) Passive recharge for that range is around 10 minutes or so.


Not sure if this is the right place to discuss balance, but don't you think that a ten minuts window after 48 hours is a tad short ? :D

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Sable Blitzmann
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-11-13 18:59:10 UTC
Will deployed siphon's be available in the characters API? I would think not as it sounds like it's not associated with a char at all.

Also, when are we getting a 'launch for self' pos option?
Iam Widdershins
Victory or Whatever
#27 - 2013-11-13 19:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Syri Taneka wrote:
Probably intentional, creates a curved diamond of "safe" space to jump into if you carpet the field with them. However, as noted, the total EHP value is only on par with a buffer BS, so your opponents don't have to field much to alpha the things and open up the field again.

Actually creating a sphere-subtraction 'diamond' would be a lot worse than just placing a single (or dipolar) tangent jammer(s). One tangent jammer, if it is not destroyed, presents in the absolute worst case a fairly wide guaranteed ring of cynoable space around it, expanding along the tangent plane. If they were to bring a large enough contingent to safely destroy it, they could be immediately faced with cynos & bubbles the moment the jammer goes down...

Thus, assuming they aren't allowed to intersect at all, the resulting correlary is that you basically need total subcapital domination before the event to have a chance of keeping a portable jammer in a useful location for the duration of an op. If so much as a single bubbler and a cyno can show up (or already be there, cloaked) when you take down the tangent jammer, you'll lose your entire gang assuming you don't have competitive capital assets.

Edit: That is: If they are allowed to intersect as much as you want, the only risk you NEED to take is the ship that anchors your own, centered jammer. If they are not allowed to intersect at all, you would need to risk a gang capable of destroying the enemy's tangent jammer in a timely manner.

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Valterra Craven
#28 - 2013-11-13 19:12:44 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks?
Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link — leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks.

Locutus ofBorg wrote:
Do we know if NPCs will agro onto tractor structures?

Blog says no.

Many orca pilots, including my alt, fit the shield harmonizing, and two laser links: range and speed. Orca pilots are going to use tractor units.


I'm not sure, I've been trying to keep abreast of this and I think one of the true downsides to this is that it will only tractor wrecks you own, no corp, no blue, no fleet. So I don't really see people outside of users that play only one account using one.

At least thats what I read at one point. I don't know if this is still true or not.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#29 - 2013-11-13 19:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Tippia wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
Can someone describe exact practical scenario in which Orca pilot will fit Tractor Beam instead of 3 mindlinks?
Laser efficiency link, shield harmonizing link — leaves one slot for a tractor for sucking up cans from spread-out Hulks.



You forgot the range links that are vital to letting everyone anchor off the orca and drop directly into its Fleet Hanger while still being able to reach 90% of the belt.

And yeah, the tractor thing totally does kill the bonus of marauders, now I'll just bring one of these, drop it at the start of a mission, and let it run until I finish a room.

I'll run with 3 salvagers instead of 3 tractors, salvage everything quickly, loot everything at once, and move on.

And with the range of this thing I no longer have to care about sniping anything with my glorious tachyons at ranges over 48km....especially after fitting a bastion on my pally >:D

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Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#30 - 2013-11-13 19:33:36 UTC
Shouldn't all of these deployables require "Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM).
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2013-11-13 19:36:15 UTC
Syri Taneka wrote:
What I'd like to see for a future re-kit of Mobile Warp Disruptors, if possible, would be to work with this new "drag and drop" system, and then have a menu option allowing corp/alliance mates to scoop it later if they so choose (so that you can deploy it quickly, but also don't have to be there to pick it up again). I understand the allowance of others to scoop it is less relevant for t1 smalls, but if I decide to anchor a t2 large on a gate to screen a mining op and I have to log, I don't want to lose my t2 large just because no one else can pick it up again.

Converting the existing MWDs over to this new system is definitely one of the things we'd like to do in the new year. It makes a good first technical case for progressing the deployable system design from a personal to group level, for exactly the reasons that you mentioned.

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2013-11-13 19:42:16 UTC
Lolmer wrote:
Shouldn't all of these deployables require "Anchoring I" trained at the least? They are, after all, being anchored in space. This would also disallow Trial Accounts from using them, which is a Good Thing(TM).


The Anchoring skill is required for the two most advanced of these structures (the Cyno Inhib and Siphon). The Depot and Tractor Unit are intended to be fairly entry level so they do not require skills to deploy.

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Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-11-13 19:45:23 UTC
Mobile depots have too much defensive practicality for being so cheap.

Not allowing cynojammers to overlap is dumb and seriously curtails their usefulness.
Sven Viko VIkolander
Allemannsrett
#34 - 2013-11-13 19:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sven Viko VIkolander
AFAIK (last time I checked on sisi), you can't name these structures. Would it be possible (i.e., easy to change) to allow at least the mobile structure to be named? I'd like to call it my pleasure hub and put tourists and dancers and enjoyment commodities (cough crash cough) in it and pretend I am having a sweet SPACE PARTY in my mobile structure....etc.... Naming just makes them more personal.

Also, I think the shields on it should take a lot longer to recharge. What's the motivation for making them recharge quickly? This makes only a very narrow window in which they can actually be destroyed, which could be exploited by doing things like deploying them around downtime etc. The defender seems far too well favored here.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2013-11-13 20:08:06 UTC
I think the sisi version has been updated recently to support renaming your own structures, so SPACE PARTY IS A GO

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Valterra Craven
#36 - 2013-11-13 20:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Can we get a dev to confirm that they only tractor things you "own" (and I guess really this means you created)

AKA: no corp, no blue, no fleet

Edit: and also how many can be deployed in a given space

(This dev blog is severally lacking in stats, the attributes panel for all these structures should have been included in the dev blog)
M1k3y Koontz
THE AESIR.
Hostile Probes
#37 - 2013-11-13 20:16:42 UTC
Interesting idea with limiting the mobile cyno jammers so they can't overlap, means swaths of these will have holes in them...

No stats on the Ghost Site structures compared to standard ones? :3

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CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2013-11-13 20:17:49 UTC
It will tractor anything that you have loot rights to

"This one time, on patch day..."

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2013-11-13 20:20:32 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
You forgot the range links that are vital to letting everyone anchor off the orca and drop directly into its Fleet Hanger while still being able to reach 90% of the belt.
Those are some pretty small belts you have there… Blink

As for using the tractor unit for group mining, it's a bit too slow to be useful. At any greater distance, it has problems keeping up with even two or three ships, much less a full fleet of them. It only takes one can at a time and moves them at 1km/s.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#40 - 2013-11-13 20:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
I tested probing the depots on sisi.

The meta 0 and low meta versions are both very easy to probe. I was able to probe both of them in:

covops 4 helios, t1 probe launcher, faction probes, t1 rig x2, no implants, no midslot modules. <300k sp in scanning (astro 4, supports at 3)

The high meta version was impossible to probe with:
covops 4 helios, t2 probe launcher, faction probes, t1 rig x2, 6% strength implant, 3x t2 strength modules, maxed probing skills.

With covops 5 I would have gotten it, maybe with a sisters launcher, and definitely with partial LG virtue set.

I think the low meta version should be a little harder to probe.