EVE General Discussion

In light of what's happened in the time since, these minutes are irrelevant utterly.

(sigh) It's all getting uncomfortably weird tbh.

Heyo guys, I'm actually working on them as we speak. Unfortunately, right when the minutes started coming in from the CSM, we started having a few pressing matters in the community, the CSM, and the CPM. I am the lead on the CSM and the CPM and took a central role in the pressing matters to the community. Unfortunately, the time sensitive nature of all of these tasks meant that the minutes were pushed back.

Additionally, the minutes system is one of the oldest CSM systems, and just like I did with the stakeholder process and elections, it is next on my list of things to revamp. The minutes, as they have existed, are responsible for burning out more CSM's than any other activity, because they are a monotonous and lengthy task. I feel that we can try and find a way to preserve what I see as the key value of the minutes (letting the community see how they are being represented by the individual CSM's on various topics) without repeatedly forcing the CSM to create full transcripts of NDA'd meeting only for me to then edit down to fit the confines of what information we will release.

I think that in the past, people have viewed the minutes as some sort of delivery mechanism for hints about upcoming expansion/features. I pretty firmly disagree with that notion. The minutes are a system for review of the CSM, not preview of what CCP is doing.

So basically "Nothing to see in those Minutes, citizen. Move along"?
Good.

To be frank, the minutes are probably the worst way possible to do feature reivew/reveal to the community. The summit occurs when various ideas are in vastly different stages of development. The summit occurs, and ideas are exchanged, and then the minutes are released some time later when ideas may have been vastly revised or changed.The appropriate time for features to be reviewed/revealed is when the team actually posts them to features and ideas or in a dev blog.

The CSM serves as a wonderful place for developers to get feedback on ideas in their earliest stages, when ideas might be sub-optimal or get cut due to time for an expansion, and they can do this because the CSM are NDA'd. The summit minutes fundamentally circumvent that NDA, and reveal a lot about what is probably the most in-depth dev/CSM interaction we have on a regular basis. Trying to make sure that players can see how they are being represented and still allowing developers to effectively utilize the creative and CSM processes is a careful balancing act, and it's the main reason the the minutes are going to be the next thing I look at.

Can you give an example about what people aren't allowed to talk about ?

It's seriously interesting how people can be under an NDA.
I never signed anything like that and i'm seriously wondering about it.


Cheers !

Although you didn't fall for my (sadly really obvious) trap,
the response is seriously appreciated.


Thanks ! :)

I suspect those are publicly available somewhere.

Let's discuss the last thing first;

I view the minutes of the CSM summits as an overall state of the company and the game, which I am also a stakeholder of.

With the cutting of the Quarterly Report and the extreme late arrival of the minutes, there are no "hints" for industrials or the meta gameplay, next to the features and ideas discussion or test server feedback and what is mentioned during fanfest/twitch.
To be blunt, the minutes as a source of future "hints" is literally outdated for a long time now.
Weird that you use that reason, since no one in this thread so far suggests or mentions the use of the minutes for personal gain.

About the CSM and burning out on minute writing, the current CSM 8 is the most overall active CSM I have seen since dec '08
(don't know about Progodlegend, but I hope all will go better soon)
Some reasons why people burn out is:
◦unclear job descriptions, undefined responsibilities, bad flow of information, lack of recognition at work and being underpaid – all these factors can strengthen tendencies towards burnout.

I fear putting a lot of time and effort in writing these minutes and then not seeing them released contributes to that burn out, maybe a streamlined process on CCP's side helps the un(der)paid CSM out more.
As a minute witter the process of getting them approved is worse then the actual grammar and spell checking.

So far I see 3 reason why the minutes are not out yet:
CCP, CCP, CCP

- How CCP views the motives behind the timely call for swift minutes by its readers, the sooner its released the fresher any perceived information the company thinks it's users might get. So a later release of the minutes is maybe better.
- How CCP is the obstacle of the release of the minutes, because of reviewing the minutes takes to much overall time, concerning NDA restrictions or even the wording of a text can maybe wrongly interpreted.
- How CCP is distracted by other pressing matters that keeps it off reviewing the minutes, where the source of the pressing matters is CCP it self;

•the Term of Service update in mid-September;
•Statement from CPM0 - "State of affairs : Communication & Trust"
•the first SOMERblink issue regarding the iScorp giveaway in late September;
•the question about how much support community sites should get in general in early October;
•the second SOMERblink issue regarding ISK giveaways for GTC sales in late October; and,
•now the live event situation last week.

I'm pretty sure that I am the only "amateur model" at CCP, but that is just a hobby. You are talking about CCP Mimic, she is a member of the GM Team.