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Missions & Complexes

 
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to salvage or not to salvage?

Author
Don Juan'nardo
Overneath
#1 - 2013-11-12 01:18:14 UTC
So i recently got my 3 box set up all prepped to run t2 fit Coercers as low/null sec ratters. Each ship runs about 290dps at 20km and it's working nicely, i can usually clear 5/10 and 6/10 gurista complexes in minimal time (any higher and i have a hard time picking up the next wave of spawns) and i seem to be drawing little attention from gankers in my low priced boats. Each account is making approx 4 mill isk per hour and i'm saving for bigger and better ships down the road.

That said, I'm not salvaging as i fear bringing a noctis on the third account instead of the coercer would draw massive ganker agro. While the occasional cat and mouse is exciting, i don't want to have to spend ALL of my time fleeing from better fit pvp ships.

Am i missing out on too much isk here by not salvaging? I also typically only loot cruiser sized ships and up, should i slow boat to all loot wrecks or just continue on to the next belt/plex?

tl;dr: 3 boxing t2 fit coercers, ok isk, but not salvagin. Should i drop third coercer for a salvaging vessel?
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#2 - 2013-11-12 02:36:45 UTC
Make the 3rd Coercer a salvage ship. Problem solved.
Don Juan'nardo
Overneath
#3 - 2013-11-12 02:56:30 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Make the 3rd Coercer a salvage ship. Problem solved.



... it's so simple... a bit ashamed i didn't think of this :P ofc with 8 high slots it can handle the job and it would allow me to ditch my heat sinks on the lows for cargo increase... What should i do with the second mid power slot though? leave it blank or maybe use an adaptive invuln?
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#4 - 2013-11-12 03:12:56 UTC
cap, tank or scan res.
Dato Koppla
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#5 - 2013-11-12 03:36:07 UTC
IMO The salvage/loot isn't really worth it in hostile space, it's better to focus on blitzing the sites for the faction/deadspace loot and loot what you can as you go. With 1 less dps ship you'll take longer to complete sites which increases the chance someone will come and hunt for you in which case you'd likely have to safe up/leave which means you'll get no isk at all.

Also I'm surprised 3 destroyers can handle 5/10s never knew that was possible especially on the last room with 3x web towers. Also you should consider using something other than Coercers because Guristas have quite high em resistance so you're actually losing alot of dps to resists, a Cormorant, Catalyst, Algos or Corax would be better because they deal kinetic damage.
Don Juan'nardo
Overneath
#6 - 2013-11-12 04:37:33 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Also I'm surprised 3 destroyers can handle 5/10s never knew that was possible especially on the last room with 3x web towers.



well... to be perfectly honest i'm still figuring that room out... my current best option is to pop one of my ships out to get my heavy armor rep fit myrm (that i keep docked in my usual ratting grounds) and use it with an AB II, to burn out and save a location in the third room that's outside of the towers range, then have to go back and re board the coercer, meanwhile i cross fingers and spam dscan on the 2 waiting ships. I then warp all 3 ships to that saved location and start out of range of the towers, i then let the frigs trickle out to me as i continue to flee and spiral the bigger guns. Even at 60-80k i don't usually take too many direct hits from the big guns and the jammer only hinders one of my ships at a time. The frigs are typically 1-2 shots to kill so it isn't much to get them down. Once frigs are down i just wait for bc's and BS's to get out of tower range and then i spiral and destroy.

The problem with this is that I've lost one myrmidon already (something like 50mill after fit and ship) and every attempt is extremely close to losing another. It's also several minutes of screwing around to get it to work, which has caused me to have to flee from would be gankers on numerous tries.

at the very least i almost always finish room 2, though i burn a ton of nanite paste from overloading.

Also, i don't just keep with the myrmidon as it's still doesn't have the tank to sustain constant bombardment with my sp and the cap booster charges are large enough that i don't have enough cargo space to sustain. It's also more ship than i should have bought as I am still so poor that i cringe at the thought of losing another one. Yet i risk it anyway...

in short, I opened my mouth a bit too much when i said i clear 5-6/10, as i generally can't fully finish them, but the starting and middle spawns/rooms are typically easy money and plowing through them quickly nets a rather generous bounty per tick. At least in contrast to anything else i've tried or have the sp for.

Dato Koppla
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#7 - 2013-11-12 05:27:06 UTC
Yeah that sounds like way too much work and still not guaranteed you can finish the 5/10s, my advice would be to forget salvaging completely, and train your Coercer characters up to use Cruisers at least with 3 Cruisers you stand a pretty good chance of clearing the 5/10s and they're not that expensive either. Omen/Maller would be the obvious choice if you stick with lasers, but I highly recommend training into Caldari/Gallente for the Kinetic damage if you plan on staying in Guristas space for long, it will really help you out. If you choose to go missiles they have good range which is extremely useful in DEDs for outranging the nasty stuff like webs/sentries. You can continue using the Myrmidon for the character that already has it trained, with good skills you should be able to handle a 5/10 with it easily.
Don Juan'nardo
Overneath
#8 - 2013-11-12 05:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Juan'nardo
yah, i was planning on moving up to cruisers after i gained access to t2 medium lazorz. I've blown a "ton" of isk farting around with bigger ships that i wasn't ready to properly fit. But i'm finally getting close.

edit: i'm sticking with the guristas at this point purely because they seem to be the prevalent pirate faction to hunt in black rise, my corp's home region.
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#9 - 2013-11-12 19:23:21 UTC
Seriously, switch over to Gallente cruisers and life will be easier. They are pretty stinking cheap too.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-11-12 20:07:39 UTC
doing lowsec deadspace plexes in destroyers is highly unusual, I would expect cruisers at minimum. However, if you want to salvage, you should just bookmark each room and refit the 3rd coercer rather than losing a third of your dps. Generally, the longer it takes you to kill stuff, the more worthwhile it is to salvage it. This is because salvage isk/hr is relatively fixed based on what you are salvaging, while clear time scales with DPS and skill.

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Don Juan'nardo
Overneath
#11 - 2013-11-12 23:53:10 UTC
Batelle wrote:
doing lowsec deadspace plexes in destroyers is highly unusual, I would expect cruisers at minimum.



The extensive amount of kiting and safety warps to bookmarked locations i have to do to survive will testify to this. But if you are bored and looking for a very engaging way to play the game try it in a destroyer ;)

Then again, i haven't had access to a BC/BS that's properly fit yet, so i'd have to say that i could just be enjoying the hell out of the baby steps to real plexing. The isk per hour i'm making right now is laughable in contrast to what some people make, that i've read, but it covers the relatively cheap ships i fly and has given me lots of room to experiment.

It's also worth mentioning that i'm using ISBoxer on the 3 accounts with a dual monitor set up. I also use the blackscreen dashboard set up that was posted by SaraphinFoad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA88ndjh8x4 which ultimately made the whole process possible for me. No doubt there are other ways, but this deffinetly jump started me into effectively managing 3 ships to their utmost limits.

I also have found that the play style for destroyers to be a happy middle ground between frigs and cruisers, as i'm sure they were meant to be, and i'm finding it hard to adapt to the slower moving cruisers in many situations. I want to attribute it to my navi skills being mostly lvl 3, but it could be that i'll just have to reinvent my perception of how to handle the various situations in d.e.d. space.

OllieNorth wrote:
Seriously, switch over to Gallente cruisers and life will be easier. They are pretty stinking cheap too.


I've been eyeballing the hybrid focused destroyers/cruisers for some time, but i don't know how i feel about having to carry ammo on top of all of the nanite paste for maintaining overload. Guess i'm just partial to lazrz. Though, i'm sure i'll have to make the jump sometime or other.


I also assume the range advantage of hybrids to be critical for keeping the slower cruisers alive in the face of the heavy firepower it will take from bs/bc ships in ded plexes. unless the cruiser really offers that much more tank, but i suspect it's the BC that shines in that regard.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#12 - 2013-11-13 03:36:08 UTC
As fun as all that is.......... You can just have a 2nd destroyer waiting at station with one toon if you are in relatively friendly space and switch once you got a fat stack of bookmarks.

During your salvage loot time I'd expect you to make far more isk per hour as compared to the one ship adding dps as long as you keep the other 2 pilots moving.

As you progress in this fast ship raid of complexes you will most likely want gila's as the end game ship for this style of play.
They are still fast enough to get out of trouble but cost less compared to the T3 options and are far easier to multibox.

Once you got that going a noctis will do just fine as the ship you clean with.

At some point you might have enough SP that salvage is not worth the time but since you are currently in destroyers that time is a good ways off. Get that loot!
Dato Koppla
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#13 - 2013-11-13 08:09:56 UTC
Don Juan'nardo wrote:


and i'm finding it hard to adapt to the slower moving cruisers in many situations.



It's worth noting that Attack Cruisers (Caracal, Stabber, Thorax, Omen) are actually faster than most of their destroyer counterparts and though they have larger sig, their increased tanking capability more than makes up for it so it's quite a big improvement over destroyers.