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Mineral Requirements
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Roules Tallamen
Senteranius II
#1 - 2013-11-12 17:18:39 UTC
Can someone please explain to me why there are two different categories for manufacturing? What I mean is you have Raw material requirements and then Extra material requirements. Why can't you just combine them into just one requirement? You can adjust the waste factor if that is the issue. It would be easier to figure out what you need to manufacture IMHO.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-11-12 17:22:24 UTC
Because raw materials are affected by your Production Efficiency skill, extra materials are not. (Except for the cases when they are.)
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2013-11-12 17:26:15 UTC
There are two categories because one is recoverable from reprocessing and the other isn't. It's kept separate so that our massive stacks of old ships don't become free minerals overnight.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2013-11-12 17:26:55 UTC
Raw materials are also recoverable by reprocessing the finished item. Extra Materials are not.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Roules Tallamen
Senteranius II
#5 - 2013-11-12 17:38:10 UTC
Got it. Thanks for the quick response.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#6 - 2013-11-12 18:04:59 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
There are two categories because one is recoverable from reprocessing and the other isn't. It's kept separate so that our massive stacks of old ships don't become free minerals overnight.


bears repeating, although hopefully one day these extra materials will be reverted?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-11-12 18:51:47 UTC
Roules Tallamen wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why there are two different categories for manufacturing? What I mean is you have Raw material requirements and then Extra material requirements. Why can't you just combine them into just one requirement? You can adjust the waste factor if that is the issue. It would be easier to figure out what you need to manufacture IMHO.


Raw materials are based off the blueprints ME value and your skills (production efficiency). Extra materials on the other hand are a set value that cannot be changed. The extra materials are also unrecoverable in any way and are "destroyed" when you start the manufacturing job.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#8 - 2013-11-12 18:52:32 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
There are two categories because one is recoverable from reprocessing and the other isn't. It's kept separate so that our massive stacks of old ships don't become free minerals overnight.


bears repeating, although hopefully one day these extra materials will be reverted?



Haven't been for bombs (though those were added for different reasons), and they've had extra materials for years.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-11-12 19:01:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
There are two categories because one is recoverable from reprocessing and the other isn't. It's kept separate so that our massive stacks of old ships don't become free minerals overnight.


bears repeating, although hopefully one day these extra materials will be reverted?



Haven't been for bombs (though those were added for different reasons), and they've had extra materials for years.


Actually, I was just looking at a bomb blueprint the other day and noticed that it didn't have "Extra Materials" on it anymore - I wasn't sure if it had always been that way, or if I was misremembering.

No idea if they actually reprocess to the full amount, however.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Roules Tallamen
Senteranius II
#10 - 2013-11-12 20:01:33 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
Roules Tallamen wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why there are two different categories for manufacturing? What I mean is you have Raw material requirements and then Extra material requirements. Why can't you just combine them into just one requirement? You can adjust the waste factor if that is the issue. It would be easier to figure out what you need to manufacture IMHO.


Raw materials are based off the blueprints ME value and your skills (production efficiency). Extra materials on the other hand are a set value that cannot be changed. The extra materials are also unrecoverable in any way and are "destroyed" when you start the manufacturing job.


I understand this process. What I still don't understand is what benefit this system provides or better yet, what it is trying to control by this twofold system. My skills are maxed out in production. Sorry if I'm a little slow :).
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-11-12 20:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
In their rebalancing efforts, CCP increased the mineral cost of various ships. They couldn't just add the minerals to the base number, or people could build hundreds of them pre-patch and reprocess them post-patch to basically magic minerals out of thin air. Therefore the added mineral requirements were added as extra and are unrecoverable.

(Yes I am aware that the extra materials mechanic existed in some edge cases before the rebalancing. However I don't know the exact reasons for it, other than being a gimmick in manufacturing TII stuff.)
Roules Tallamen
Senteranius II
#12 - 2013-11-12 20:18:23 UTC
Ah now that makes more sense to me. Thank you.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#13 - 2013-11-12 22:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Actually, I was just looking at a bomb blueprint the other day and noticed that it didn't have "Extra Materials" on it anymore - I wasn't sure if it had always been that way, or if I was misremembering.

No idea if they actually reprocess to the full amount, however.



Were you looking at the show info window or a manufacturing quote?

When the "Extra Materials" are items also present in the normal materials, they don't appear as a separate line in the show info window.

(I can't check in game atm)

Though Fuzzwork is showing that Shrapnel bombs don't require extra materials (and haven't since at least Retribution), so it's certainly possible that there was a quiet change there.


Abdiel Kavash wrote:
(Yes I am aware that the extra materials mechanic existed in some edge cases before the rebalancing. However I don't know the exact reasons for it, other than being a gimmick in manufacturing TII stuff.)


Bombs were the primary case because, as charges they could remain in the cargohold of a ship put into an SMA, providing Carriers with the capacity to move immense volumes of compressed minerals (Each 75m3 Shrapnel bomb holds 13,703m3 of Trit alone). CCP couldn't just increase the bomb's volumes because then they'd have to give Bombers very large cargo holds (a solution which would have caused more problems), so they killed the efficiency of refining bombs by either adding or converting some of the mineral requirements to "Extra." This all happened quite a long time ago.

I think there (is or was) a similar case with the Passive Targeter I due to it's build requirement of 12.5k trit (125m3) and volume of 25m3.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-11-12 23:03:56 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Actually, I was just looking at a bomb blueprint the other day and noticed that it didn't have "Extra Materials" on it anymore - I wasn't sure if it had always been that way, or if I was misremembering.

No idea if they actually reprocess to the full amount, however.



Were you looking at the show info window or a manufacturing quote?

When the "Extra Materials" are items also present in the normal materials, they don't appear as a separate line in the show info window.

(I can't check in game atm)

Though Fuzzwork is showing that Shrapnel bombs don't require extra materials (and haven't since at least Retribution), so it's certainly possible that there was a quiet change there.


I was just looking at Show Info, I don't have any bomb blueprints of my own. Eve Meep is showing them reprocessing to the full amount, though, so there's that.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/