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Hi Sec: Your Future Vision

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#261 - 2013-11-12 06:47:32 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
ASAIC, It should be (almost) impossible to have "burn Jita" events,

I see.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DSpite Culhach
#262 - 2013-11-12 06:54:30 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
DSpite Culhach wrote:
ASAIC, It should be (almost) impossible to have "burn Jita" events,

I see.


I simply meant that camping an entire station for days makes no sense. It's like laying siege to a police station and having no cops from ANY other stations coming in. With tanks. Which they would.

"Burn Jita hour" ? Fine. Not DAYS.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#263 - 2013-11-12 06:56:19 UTC
It's no surprise that CVA roleplayers hate content

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Bittersweet Badasaz
Q.Q.
#264 - 2013-11-12 07:28:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:
mynnna wrote:
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a highseccer's face - forever.


Well there you go CCP! In these tough times where Dust is crumbling and your online numbers have stayed stagnant since Goons rose to power, why not listen to Mynnna and give your new subscribers that special boot in the face? Over and Over. Forever.

Surely that will help, preferably crushing the skulls of those hoping to join the game, especially if they resist joining Goonswarm and helping to pay Mitten's real life bills. I mean what else do they have to do with their spare time really?

Congratulations CCP on already starting down that visionary path with the live event leading the lambs to the slaughter. Conversion to low and null sec shot way, way up right? Oh oops wrong, new trial accounts from steam got enraged and started talking about leaving and telling their friends this game is designed by the totally unimaginably incompetent. Imagine them feeling humiliated instead of grateful for a two hour deathmarch, the nerve not to like that boot to the head over and over, and you know, just leave instead.

Picture your next corporate pitch to investors "we have limited our new player base to those that like to be kicked in the head over and over, in other words, the brain damaged"


Holy ****. The butthurt, its so strong its almost alive. Man thats beautiful.


I work on games in real life and I'd describe it as more a bit disgusted and then "oh yeah this is predictably how MMO's die" than anything else. Yes I've made money at it and work on games with more than 10mil subscribers. So more like shaking my head a bit and going back to coding . Have played this one for over a year, mostly in a WH with a few other buddies on a real life developer team, this is an alt. The developer on our team who led us to Eve was in Sniggwaffe and a decent PvPer. Me I don't have that much time.

Didn't make it to the death march, hisec isn't were I spend most my time but what is happening here is what is what happens to every successful MMO before they walk off on their own death march off a cliff by alienating new subscribers and those who don't want to play exactly like the veteran powerblocks.

a) First the veteran powerblocks become outsized in their influence on the Game Developers designers. (check)

b) Then the veteran powerblocks demand the game get easier and easier for them (see jump bridges, cost of wardeccing etc) (check)

c) At the same time veteran powerblocks disparage the newbies, solo players, pve people and small groups," i.e. those who are not large powerblocks" and get rules inn acted which effectively choke off the new player pipeline by encouraging the designers to keep designing the game around veterans. Why do the game designers always fall for this? Well because it's pointed out that that large social groups are stickier and thus what the game designers inevitably conclude is that they need to do is force everyone into that large scale playstyle. Wrong. New players and those with alternative playstyles simply see a place that is hostile to them, where they are openly disparaged, and the gap between themselves and attaining leadership in a large power block is too large to overcome so they turn to other games.

e) Then Game participation levels off and then dies, MMO closes shop.

d) I'd love to see this MMO do the opposite - stack the rules to forcibly loosen up the large veteran power structures which then allows a refreshment of newer players in who have a chance of realistically attaining positions of influence. This MMO unfortunately is doing the opposite and hastening it's own death. Marching several thousand alternatives and newbies to their deaths the other day was strikingly symbolic.


So, please explain why EVE is still here when most of the games you've probably worked on have died?


Please explain why you can't be bothered to look up the fact that for example WoW mentioned above started about the same time as Eve and is still going and that wasn't the point to begin with. Eve is one of my favorite kind of cult games and one of the most beautiful and unique games ever made and it's currently in danger.

The point was CCP has a flat player base and is going in the exact opposite direction that it needs to with it's current focus of alienating the new player base in favor of listening to veteran power blocks. The veterans will convince CCP to hand over more and more resources to them and give new players fewer and fewer playstyle choices other than to be a corporate cog in veteran power blocs. Most of you are all doing that quite nicely here. Only you won't have much of a game soon if you get your way.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#265 - 2013-11-12 07:38:42 UTC
Quote:
Please explain why you can't be bothered to look up the fact that for example WoW mentioned above started about the same time as Eve and is still going and that wasn't the point to begin with. Eve is one of my favorite kind of cult games and one of the most beautiful and unique games ever made and it's currently in danger.

The point was CCP has a flat player base and is going in the exact opposite direction that it needs to with it's current focus of alienating the new player base in favor of listening to veteran power blocks. The veterans will convince CCP to hand over more and more resources to them and give new players fewer and fewer playstyle choices other than to be a corporate cog in veteran power blocs. Most of you are all doing that quite nicely here. Only you won't have much of a game soon if you get your way.


WoW is hemorrhaging subs, for the precise reason that they pissed off their regular base in the hopes of catering to the noobs and the casuals. Content is cheapened further and further with every patch so little Timmy doesn't feel left behind by the good players.

And guess what? People are tired of being loyal to a company that does not value veteran players who supported the game in the first place. So they leave.

Meanwhile, EVE flourishes, and remains the only example of a growing subscription model MMO on the market. CCP even has money to burn on stupid projects like DUST.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#266 - 2013-11-12 07:47:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Now let's say that adrenaline rushes made you suicidal, would you voluntarily engage in EVE's heart-pumping PvP?



Let's say that you were a haemophiliac; would you complain that full contact sports were too bruising?


So, according to you, there's no other meaningful sport at the sports center? Thanks, that's exactly my point, EVE sucks balls unless you're in it for asploding other player's ships. Preferably with a large numeric advantage in yoru favor. Ideally if the victim will feel so bad that will experience real suffer for his virtual loss.

It takes a while to figure that EVE is not a freelancing space faring game. It took me three days to get hooked and a year to figure I was playing the wrong game. And certainly i would had been gone in my second year if wasn't because I started reading and learned of something called "Ambulation" on which CCP had been working since before I joined the game in 2008. In 2010, it was to be "next year" and i was excited enough to keep playing the wrong game, waiting for a promising new land.

Now it's a kind of personal thing. There are three possible outcomes:

1: EVE dies. That's what CCP deserves, but wouldn't be good nor positive.
2: I get hooked on something better than EVE. I would like that, but chances are slim.
3: EVE comes my way and I get something worth my passion. I woud love it, but chances are slim because of 1.


PS: of course, there are more outcomes, like:

4: EVE hits big success and yet I don't get sh*t.

But that's >goto line 1, 2, 3 until the loop ends.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#267 - 2013-11-12 07:51:31 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
i eneded threed ays tog et hooekd and ayear to figure I was paying the wrong game.

I actually couldn't understand the sequence of events you are referring to

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#268 - 2013-11-12 07:53:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Please explain why you can't be bothered to look up the fact that for example WoW mentioned above started about the same time as Eve and is still going and that wasn't the point to begin with. Eve is one of my favorite kind of cult games and one of the most beautiful and unique games ever made and it's currently in danger.

The point was CCP has a flat player base and is going in the exact opposite direction that it needs to with it's current focus of alienating the new player base in favor of listening to veteran power blocks. The veterans will convince CCP to hand over more and more resources to them and give new players fewer and fewer playstyle choices other than to be a corporate cog in veteran power blocs. Most of you are all doing that quite nicely here. Only you won't have much of a game soon if you get your way.


WoW is hemorrhaging subs, for the precise reason that they pissed off their regular base in the hopes of catering to the noobs and the casuals. Content is cheapened further and further with every patch so little Timmy doesn't feel left behind by the good players.

And guess what? People are tired of being loyal to a company that does not value veteran players who supported the game in the first place. So they leave.

Meanwhile, EVE flourishes, and remains the only example of a growing subscription model MMO on the market. CCP even has money to burn on stupid projects like DUST.

if WoW dies, where will we tell people to go back to

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#269 - 2013-11-12 07:57:12 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Please explain why you can't be bothered to look up the fact that for example WoW mentioned above started about the same time as Eve and is still going and that wasn't the point to begin with. Eve is one of my favorite kind of cult games and one of the most beautiful and unique games ever made and it's currently in danger.

The point was CCP has a flat player base and is going in the exact opposite direction that it needs to with it's current focus of alienating the new player base in favor of listening to veteran power blocks. The veterans will convince CCP to hand over more and more resources to them and give new players fewer and fewer playstyle choices other than to be a corporate cog in veteran power blocs. Most of you are all doing that quite nicely here. Only you won't have much of a game soon if you get your way.


WoW is hemorrhaging subs, for the precise reason that they pissed off their regular base in the hopes of catering to the noobs and the casuals. Content is cheapened further and further with every patch so little Timmy doesn't feel left behind by the good players.

And guess what? People are tired of being loyal to a company that does not value veteran players who supported the game in the first place. So they leave.

Meanwhile, EVE flourishes, and remains the only example of a growing subscription model MMO on the market. CCP even has money to burn on stupid projects like DUST.

if WoW dies, where will we tell people to go back to


Hmm.

You know? That's exceedingly problematic. I guess I'd better do my part and restart my WoW account.

For the next expansion, Garrosh travels back in time to recruit an army from the past to conquer Azeroth. You wish I was kidding.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#270 - 2013-11-12 08:25:50 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
For the next expansion, Garrosh travels back in time to recruit an army from the past to conquer Azeroth. You wish I was kidding.

I have no idea who that character is.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#271 - 2013-11-12 08:28:26 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
For the next expansion, Garrosh travels back in time to recruit an army from the past to conquer Azeroth. You wish I was kidding.

I have no idea who that character is.


Be very thankful that you do not have tweenage cousins. I never hear the end of that damned game, and I quit 4 1/2 years ago.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#272 - 2013-11-12 08:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
For the next expansion, Garrosh travels back in time to recruit an army from the past to conquer Azeroth. You wish I was kidding.

I have no idea who that character is.

Be very thankful that you do not have tweenage cousins. I never hear the end of that damned game, and I quit 4 1/2 years ago.

Eh well, there's a whole subforum section on SA that has tons of threads on WoW.

You see, each server's group has a thread, but all the EVE stuff is a single thread because, well it's not sharded. Hilarious. I think every single class has a thread to itself as well but eve doesn't have well delineated classes I suppose.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#273 - 2013-11-12 08:31:37 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
For the next expansion, Garrosh travels back in time to recruit an army from the past to conquer Azeroth. You wish I was kidding.

I have no idea who that character is.

Be very thankful that you do not have tweenage cousins. I never hear the end of that damned game, and I quit 4 1/2 years ago.

Eh well, there's a whole subforum section on SA that has tons of threads on WoW.

You see, each server's group has a thread, but all the EVE stuff is a single thread because, well it's not sharded. Hilarious. I think every single class has a thread to itself as well but eve doesn't have well delineated classes I suppose.


One day I really should put in my tenbux to get on those forums and see what all the buzz is about.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#274 - 2013-11-12 09:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bittersweet Badasaz wrote:

Please explain why you can't be bothered to look up the fact that for example WoW mentioned above started about the same time as Eve and is still going and that wasn't the point to begin with. Eve is one of my favorite kind of cult games and one of the most beautiful and unique games ever made and it's currently in danger.

The point was CCP has a flat player base and is going in the exact opposite direction that it needs to with it's current focus of alienating the new player base in favor of listening to veteran power blocks. The veterans will convince CCP to hand over more and more resources to them and give new players fewer and fewer playstyle choices other than to be a corporate cog in veteran power blocs. Most of you are all doing that quite nicely here. Only you won't have much of a game soon if you get your way.

WoW and Eve have only one thing in common, they're not the norm. 99% of MMOs die or go f2p/p2w within their first 18 months, after the initial interest their player numbers shrink.

WoW was haemorrhaging subs last time I looked, and the game suffers from periodic churn depending on where they are in the development cycle. Eve on the other hand is one of the very very few MMOs that has increased its subs year on year with only the very occasional cockup, and CCP have achieved that by not being Blizzard.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
DSpite Culhach
#275 - 2013-11-12 10:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DSpite Culhach
Andski wrote:
It's no surprise that CVA roleplayers hate content


That's a logical fallacy.

Facts:
* CVA controlled Providence.
* I wanted to see Providence but I was red from having tried Faction Warfare.

Since my play time is limited I'm borderline active with CVA atm, and I passed my assets down there back to CVA for them to use.

I have not left CVA because I also have a couple of local friends in there and was hoping to just get some frig roams in future with this toon, when I get some rest time after my heart op.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#276 - 2013-11-12 10:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Now let's say that adrenaline rushes made you suicidal, would you voluntarily engage in EVE's heart-pumping PvP?
Let's say that you were a haemophiliac; would you complain that full contact sports were too bruising?

So, according to you, there's no other meaningful sport at the sports center?
No. According to him, there are plenty, but you're picking the one that suits you the least and then demanding that people stop touching you…

Quote:
Thanks, that's exactly my point, EVE sucks balls unless you're in it for asploding other player's ships. Preferably with a large numeric advantage in yoru favor. Ideally if the victim will feel so bad that will experience real suffer for his virtual loss.
That's not so much his point as your projected assumptions about what and why people enjoy something you do not.

DSpite Culhach wrote:
* A high traffic, hisec lane? Say the trade route from Hek to Rens? It should be IMPOSSIBLE (as far as return on investment in ISK) to get ganked AND robbed, as CONCORD would stop the "looting"

[…]

ASAIC, It should be (almost) impossible to have "burn Jita" events

Yes, it may be a rant, but you're using an awfully naughty word a lot there… and it's not really a word that belongs in any kind of EVE discussion.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#277 - 2013-11-12 11:14:55 UTC
I want there to be more nice shiny things carebears can anchor in space to gain some kind of benefit for their corporations, preferably with the number of places you can anchor those things in system being limited.

The reason I want that is so I can shoot those things and be paid by carebears to shoot those things that belong to other carebears so they can put their own thing there.

Like POCOs, but actually useful.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#278 - 2013-11-12 12:55:56 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Jythier Smith wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Comments like this, by anyone else but a CSM member, would get the poster banned.

No it really wouldn't. Humour isn't against the TOS or ROC.


Sounds like he's expressing a wish to kill more than half (some estimate) of the player base of EVE.


Exactly, if I commented about how I would really enjoy some unfortunate end to the cadre running null sec and that control the future direction of Eve, not only would I be banned from the forums, I would be perma-banned from the game. But Malcanis on the other hand, he has a CSM shield , plus apologists like Tippia, saying "it was a joke", when he suggests killing and cannibalizing high sec players.

As typical, massive double standard in the game.



I’m no big city lawyer, but surely in order to have a double “standard” the standards have to be the same…

On one hand we have Malcanis

- Well respected in the community for his critical thinking, logical approach and amazing debating skills
- Given vast amounts of his own personal free time in order to do CSM things and make this game we all love better
- Has never (to my knowledge) attempted to pass judgment on the mental health of other players, simply because they play the game differently to him

Then we have you,

-

…

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#279 - 2013-11-12 13:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
And the hits keep coming from this guy lol

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

So, according to you, there's no other meaningful sport at the sports center? Thanks, that's exactly my point, EVE sucks balls unless you're in it for asploding other player's ships. Preferably with a large numeric advantage in yoru favor. Ideally if the victim will feel so bad that will experience real suffer for his virtual loss.


The problem is that this is incorrect.

I don't pvp much any more, and I never real was into pvp for the "e-peen" aspect, more that I liked playing with friends and like strategic type play. That's why I've always enjoyed fleet fights way more than roams or solo stuff. But even now it's just on occasion I do that much.

I explore. I run incursions. 100% of my time in EVE now involves shooting NPCs or hauling things for corp/alliance mates. The hauling kinda sucks, but the making NPCs explode and sometimes getting cool loot and isk in a fleet with a couple buddies IS FUN to me.

If "nothing but asploding ships" is the only thing you think is fun, the problem isn't EVE, it's your unreasonable expectations....


Which now that I mention it:


Quote:

It takes a while to figure that EVE is not a freelancing space faring game. It took me three days to get hooked and a year to figure I was playing the wrong game. And certainly i would had been gone in my second year if wasn't because I started reading and learned of something called "Ambulation" on which CCP had been working since before I joined the game in 2008. In 2010, it was to be "next year" and i was excited enough to keep playing the wrong game, waiting for a promising new land.


Omg, at least your honest. You aren't mentally suited to this game. It's not what you want, and it will probably never be. Your continuing to play it is a kind of gross emotional masochism that screams "dear god let this guy live in a country with free mental healthcare services" lol.

And yet here you are, playing a game that you don't like but that 10s , maybe even 100s of thousands other people actually enjoy. How selfish is it that you'd want to see that game changed in some way to suit you?

Quote:

Now it's a kind of personal thing. There are three possible outcomes:

1: EVE dies. That's what CCP deserves, but wouldn't be good nor positive.
2: I get hooked on something better than EVE. I would like that, but chances are slim.
3: EVE comes my way and I get something worth my passion. I woud love it, but chances are slim because of 1.


PS: of course, there are more outcomes, like:

4: EVE hits big success and yet I don't get sh*t.


4 already happened. It IS happening. EVE has infinitely more people than all the MMOS that it's left tattered in it's wake like a Filipino Typhoon (too soon?).

EVE would have died if it were a game that you like. The best thing you could do for all of us is find something you actually like doing while we stay here and do what we like. You won't do that of course, because folks like you need something to hate basically, but there it is.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#280 - 2013-11-12 13:30:42 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I want there to be more nice shiny things carebears can anchor in space to gain some kind of benefit for their corporations, preferably with the number of places you can anchor those things in system being limited.

The reason I want that is so I can shoot those things and be paid by carebears to shoot those things that belong to other carebears so they can put their own thing there.

Like POCOs, but actually useful.


This pretty much sums up my vision for all space except WHs (only because I don't know enough about WHs to talk about what it should or shouldn't have).

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal