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A question to Erotica 1, James 315 and co: do you even l̶i̶f̶t̶ PvP?
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Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-11-11 13:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mhax Arthie
JC Anderson wrote:

As a side note, she gained the title Queen of Spoons because she threw a big metal spoon at another CSM member in anger across the table during the summit.

Whooaaa.... so that's how a carebear actually do pvp! Do not hurt my pixels or I smack your face!!11!!
Hope she is doing this also as a politician because I totally love to see politicians fight and hurt each other.

Anyway, sad and weird story, thank's for sharing.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#42 - 2013-11-11 13:04:58 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

If we must, think back to the days of high piracy. Pirates and privateers didn't attack military ships. They went after lightly armed traders for the precise reason we do....they can't fight back.


Wrong, wrong, wrong.

They went after them to disrupt trade and ruin their economies. How well armed they were was irrelevant.


Yeah, because if I were a pirate on the high seas, I'd totally go pick on the well-armed convoys floating by, and ignore the minimally defended traders. I'd ~totally~ not use devious and underhanded tricks in order to win.

Common sense man, the "commerce raiders" of old, be it full-blown pirates or Marque'ed privateers, went after the easy targets. Their goal was making cash. Pretty sure Blackbeard and his ilk weren't in it for ~gudfites~.


Notably, Blackbeard met his earthly end in the process of a "gudfite".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2013-11-11 13:09:29 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Pretty sure Blackbeard and his ilk weren't in it for ~gudfites~.


You'll unfotunately have to find out from a bunch of dead villager corpses in Massachusetts. A whole bunch.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2013-11-11 13:09:41 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
JC Anderson wrote:

As a side note, she gained the title Queen of Spoons because she threw a big metal spoon at another CSM member in anger across the table during the summit.

Whooaaa.... so that's how a carebear actually do pvp! Do not hurt my pixels or I smack your face!!11!!
Hope she is doing this also as a politician because I totally love to see politicians fight and hurt each other.

Anyway, sad and weird story, thank's for sharing.


Ironically its the bears who tend to be the unstable ones in RL and are prone to making threats involving RL.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#45 - 2013-11-11 13:58:13 UTC
As stated before, there is no such thing as hi-sec pvp; there is only people who hide in hi-sec, pretending to pvp. They are also the one who like to post about it.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2013-11-11 14:12:08 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
As stated before, there is no such thing as hi-sec pvp; there is only people who hide in hi-sec, pretending to pvp. They are also the one who like to post about it.


Do they shoot other people?
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#47 - 2013-11-11 14:29:18 UTC
Mining would be so boring without people like Erotica1 and gankers who want to disrupt our lives. Do you really want to sit out there and mine unharassed? Do you want to go out there and say to yourself, "Ah, how nice, there is no possibility of bad things happening to me today."

Personally I find it exhilarating to mine.

"I'm here and someone could, at any moment, decide that I shouldn't be here and I'll have to run. Will I escape in time?"
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#48 - 2013-11-11 14:34:08 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I like explosions, and I'm playing an economic game with my victims. Sure, buy that replacement retty here, instead of wasting time flying to a hub. It's only a 25% markup, no biggy.

The follow-on to your question is, why shouldn't I blow them up, if I can? I'm playing a PVP game, with others who have agreed to PVP. Not my fault they chose to fly a ship that can't respond to my actions.

If we must, think back to the days of high piracy. Pirates and privateers didn't attack military ships. They went after lightly armed traders for the precise reason we do....they can't fight back.

Blowing ships up in hi-sec to force players to buy your marked up goods you stocked locally I think is brilliant and I respect that as meta gaming. I can also see ganking overloaded freighters.

Couple of things I don’t like about the hi-sec gank. First is the ease at which it can be done. Sure there is some planning that goes into the process but the engagement is all one sided, sure your situational awareness can help prevent the gank, but if anyone has seriously tried dscan every 5 sec checking profiles adding people to watch list etc…. this process is worse than mining itself in a busy local system.

It is easier to mine in low sec tbh with the only drawback being getting your goods to market if you can’t find a local buyer or the occasional afk cloaker.

Hi-sec ganking is not true pvp… your fighting a pilot skilled and trained for industry and a ship designed for the same. I can’t see people doing it for the challenge but more for the kicks and tears but please don’t pound your chest and boast about your leet pvp mad skillz bra and point to your kill board.

The other is the imbalance from cheap fit ships to alpha mission fit ships off the field. Don’t misunderstand me here. I feel it still should be an option and available, I just don’t feel it should yield you a profit in hi-sec.

Hi-sec should never be risk free but then again neither should low/null sec. I feel as things are now with the current set up in Null that null has less risk when it comes to mission or mining.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#49 - 2013-11-11 14:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
baltec1 wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
As stated before, there is no such thing as hi-sec pvp; there is only people who hide in hi-sec, pretending to pvp. They are also the one who like to post about it.


Do they shoot other people?


Player v player. I've underlined the important part to illustrate the flaw in your question. You should have asked "do other people shoot back?"

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#50 - 2013-11-11 15:02:52 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
As stated before, there is no such thing as hi-sec pvp; there is only people who hide in hi-sec, pretending to pvp. They are also the one who like to post about it.


Do they shoot other people?


Player v player. I've underlined the important part to illustrate the flaw in your question. You should have asked "do other people shoot back?"


I can confirm that bots and bot aspirants do not in fact, shoot back. I guess that's why you highlighted "player" in that sentence.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#51 - 2013-11-11 15:05:08 UTC
Get it right!

It's player vs people!
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#52 - 2013-11-11 15:26:34 UTC
Eduard Khil XD wrote:
Hi. I'd like to start this post by saying I'm a big fan of James 315's writing, the work he does, and the concepts he presents.
I don't know much about Erotica or if he writes well, so I'll reserve my judgement about him.

However, I have a question for Erotica, James 315 and hisec scammers/gankers in general:

Do you often PvP where there is a risk of you losing? And if not, can what you do really be called PvP if there is only one side to the engagement?

Allow me to elaborate. Two fleets meet in a situation where they can engage freely.
Battle commences, FCs make their plays, skill, strategy and other factors decide the winner— the fight is wrapped up.
Every time you engage, you're putting your own assets and time on the line, as are your opponents.
Who the enemy are is totally transparent. Finding their staging system is usually no problem—you can often attack said group at your leisure, or even follow them around if you hold a grudge.

Now enter the world of hisec ganking and scamming. There is no way to hold a grudge or retaliate against an alt that does not undock in ships that are significantly valuable, and the way most scammers behave, no way to scam them back.

Now, before you call me a supporter of risk free PvE or hisec, I'm not.
In fact, EVE might be a better game if they just removed hisec altogether v0v.
Risk free PvE income that can be used in PvP is imbalanced.

You'd probobly agree that when players do these kind of activities there is minimal risk of loss to them. There's no point in attacking their gank catalyst, and no way to find out their main.

Why should CCP work to preserve this kind of playstyle?
If you are not in a conflict where your enemy can retaliate, why do you find it fun?
Should you be allowed to perform any activity in EVE without repercussions/consequences?
Why should you be allowed to use any method for scamming if you are completely detached from your PvP main?


The problem with this post is that it is extremely ignorant of the game and mechanics. There is literally nothing in this game and its current mechanics that puts the "victim" in a position in which they cannot fight back, and there is nothing that puts the "aggressor" in a position in which they are invulnerable and free from repercussions.

Now, if you CHOOSE to not fight back, if you CHOOSE to not retaliate and cause some repercussions to those who wrong you, then that's on you. It's not CCPs place to do it for you.
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-11-11 20:54:19 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
[quote=Eduard Khil XD]
3. I did address my disdain for scammers or other spammers for rolling characters to evade blocks. I have done well by building a brand despite the thousands of blocks.

-Ero


Thanks for pointing out you violated the EULA by re rolling characters after thousands of yours were blocked.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#54 - 2013-11-11 21:02:03 UTC
I PvP in risky situations all the time. It's just space pixels.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#55 - 2013-11-11 21:02:47 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Eduard Khil XD wrote:
Hi. I'd like to start this post by saying I'm a big fan of James 315's writing, the work he does, and the concepts he presents.
I don't know much about Erotica or if he writes well, so I'll reserve my judgement about him.

However, I have a question for Erotica, James 315 and hisec scammers/gankers in general:

Do you often PvP where there is a risk of you losing? And if not, can what you do really be called PvP if there is only one side to the engagement?

Allow me to elaborate. Two fleets meet in a situation where they can engage freely.
Battle commences, FCs make their plays, skill, strategy and other factors decide the winner— the fight is wrapped up.
Every time you engage, you're putting your own assets and time on the line, as are your opponents.
Who the enemy are is totally transparent. Finding their staging system is usually no problem—you can often attack said group at your leisure, or even follow them around if you hold a grudge.

Now enter the world of hisec ganking and scamming. There is no way to hold a grudge or retaliate against an alt that does not undock in ships that are significantly valuable, and the way most scammers behave, no way to scam them back.

Now, before you call me a supporter of risk free PvE or hisec, I'm not.
In fact, EVE might be a better game if they just removed hisec altogether v0v.
Risk free PvE income that can be used in PvP is imbalanced.

You'd probobly agree that when players do these kind of activities there is minimal risk of loss to them. There's no point in attacking their gank catalyst, and no way to find out their main.

Why should CCP work to preserve this kind of playstyle?
If you are not in a conflict where your enemy can retaliate, why do you find it fun?
Should you be allowed to perform any activity in EVE without repercussions/consequences?
Why should you be allowed to use any method for scamming if you are completely detached from your PvP main?


The problem with this post is that it is extremely ignorant of the game and mechanics. There is literally nothing in this game and its current mechanics that puts the "victim" in a position in which they cannot fight back, and there is nothing that puts the "aggressor" in a position in which they are invulnerable and free from repercussions.

Either you're the ignorant one, or your definition of meaningful retaliation or meaningful repercussions is so broad as to make the words pointless. There's no counter to Zydrine Megacyte suiciding pods in Amarr, there's no way to retaliate against spaceship barbie's scams aside from knowing not to get scammed. Certainly there are ways to avoid being victimized, to mitigate risk, but there is absolutely no means of retaliation.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-11-11 21:08:53 UTC
Varesk wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:

3. I did address my disdain for scammers or other spammers for rolling characters to evade blocks. I have done well by building a brand despite the thousands of blocks.

-Ero


Thanks for pointing out you violated the EULA by re rolling characters after thousands of yours were blocked.


I know that reading is hard, but... damn, you aren't even trying.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-11-12 00:54:40 UTC
Batelle wrote:


Either you're the ignorant one, or your definition of meaningful retaliation or meaningful repercussions is so broad as to make the words pointless. There's no counter to Zydrine Megacyte suiciding pods in Amarr, there's no way to retaliate against spaceship barbie's scams aside from knowing not to get scammed. Certainly there are ways to avoid being victimized, to mitigate risk, but there is absolutely no means of retaliation.


You are the ignorant one if you think there is no counter to having your pod suicided. There are also counters to having your barge ganked. Freighters have counters available too. But AFK pilot is AFK.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-11-12 01:08:47 UTC
I can confirm that New Order gankers are too scared for "real" pvp. None of them fight in lowsec, whs, or null because they are all noobs who are terribad. Well ok there are a few brave newbies in NO but that's it....except... those guys in Space Monkies, goonswarm, that guy from TEST...and even those guys flying in the Syndicate Competitive League... but except for ...oh wait there are those guys in the wardec corps.... but yeah, totally spot on with the rest of your analysis though OP.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#59 - 2013-11-12 01:13:17 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I can confirm that New Order gankers are too scared for "real" pvp. None of them fight in lowsec, whs, or null because they are all noobs who are terribad. Well ok there are a few brave newbies in NO but that's it....except... those guys in Space Monkies, goonswarm, that guy from TEST...and even those guys flying in the Syndicate Competitive League... but except for ...oh wait there are those guys in the wardec corps.... but yeah, totally spot on with the rest of your analysis though OP.

goon pvp isn't real pvp

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-11-12 01:19:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I can confirm that New Order gankers are too scared for "real" pvp. None of them fight in lowsec, whs, or null because they are all noobs who are terribad. Well ok there are a few brave newbies in NO but that's it....except... those guys in Space Monkies, goonswarm, that guy from TEST...and even those guys flying in the Syndicate Competitive League... but except for ...oh wait there are those guys in the wardec corps.... but yeah, totally spot on with the rest of your analysis though OP.

goon pvp isn't real pvp


Nothing is ever "real pvp".

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."