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[Proposal] Inject + Add Skills when you qualify for preq's in 24 hours.
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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-09-09 17:54:56 UTC
While our skill queue is convient and allows us to plan 24 hours in advance... it causes problems when your training that one skill to get to an another skill.

I propose that we be premitted to "inject a skill + add to queue" into the queue if we are going to qualify for that skill within the 24 hour window.

For example -

You have to train Weapon Upgrades V to get to Advanced Weapon Upgrades.

I want to start training "AWU" to I immedately after V as I would qualify for preqs.



Pros: For those who like to get their ducks in a row... this is a great thing to have.

Cons: wha? What cons?


Penality?? : Skill "vaporizes" if you remove it before you qualify for it.

Comemnts? Questions? Ideas?


Thanks.

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Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-09-09 18:04:53 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
While our skill queue is convient and allows us to plan 24 hours in advance... it causes problems when your training that one skill to get to an another skill.

I propose that we be premitted to "inject a skill + add to queue" into the queue if we are going to qualify for that skill within the 24 hour window.

For example -

You have to train Weapon Upgrades V to get to Advanced Weapon Upgrades.

I want to start training "AWU" to I immedately after V as I would qualify for preqs.



Pros: For those who like to get their ducks in a row... this is a great thing to have.

Cons: wha? What cons?


Penality?? : Skill "vaporizes" if you remove it before you qualify for it.

Comemnts? Questions? Ideas?


Thanks.

Since most level 1 skills take a short time to train (under an hour), the benefit gained by adding it to the queue before prereqs are done is minimal. What I do is add a super-long skill on the end of the prereq (my current super-long skill is Caldari BS V, for example), and once the prereq is done, I just inject and start training the new skill, and move on with my skillplan.

Also, EVE-Mon is great.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#3 - 2011-09-09 18:11:19 UTC
The main "con" that comes to mind is that you now have skills injected that you can't train... how much coding would be required to add the checks into there to keep you from trying to train it anyhow? How much testing? What potential is there to break the current training system?

Likely it's not worth it.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-09-09 18:44:41 UTC
Your misunderstanding me.

This has nothing to do with planning.

Its about injecting a skill that you will very very very likely 99.9999999% train or WANT to train immedately once your done with your current skill but can't becaue you dont qualify fori t until that skill your training now is done.

This allows what would be normally doable...doable without the restriction of "You cant inject this skill because you dnot qualify for it" but never mind the fact you will within 24 hours.

Normally youd have to pick a filler skill to keep busy with then swap it back out or come back to it later IF you reembmer to do so.

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MNagy
Yo-Mama
#5 - 2011-09-09 19:44:59 UTC
I would argue that you shoudl be able to put any skill into your toon.

You just cant skill it past 0 unless you have skill to.

It sux carrying holding skill books for weeks waiting / waiting / waiting to use them.

Then you finally fly back to where your skill books are - inject them and off you go again.
-That is the pain.

If you already had it in your skills but at level 0 - problem solved.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2011-09-09 20:21:32 UTC
Zagam wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
While our skill queue is convient and allows us to plan 24 hours in advance... it causes problems when your training that one skill to get to an another skill.

I propose that we be premitted to "inject a skill + add to queue" into the queue if we are going to qualify for that skill within the 24 hour window.

For example -

You have to train Weapon Upgrades V to get to Advanced Weapon Upgrades.

I want to start training "AWU" to I immedately after V as I would qualify for preqs.



Pros: For those who like to get their ducks in a row... this is a great thing to have.

Cons: wha? What cons?


Penality?? : Skill "vaporizes" if you remove it before you qualify for it.

Comemnts? Questions? Ideas?


Thanks.

Since most level 1 skills take a short time to train (under an hour), the benefit gained by adding it to the queue before prereqs are done is minimal. What I do is add a super-long skill on the end of the prereq (my current super-long skill is Caldari BS V, for example), and once the prereq is done, I just inject and start training the new skill, and move on with my skillplan.

Also, EVE-Mon is great.


What, you've never had to scramble around to find a BS skill you don't particularly want just to fill time between a prereq finishing and you being able to get on to start the skill you actually want?
MNagy
Yo-Mama
#7 - 2011-09-09 20:28:03 UTC

[/quote]

What, you've never had to scramble around to find a BS skill you don't particularly want just to fill time between a prereq finishing and you being able to get on to start the skill you actually want?[/quote]


Ok that I agree with - I can see your point of why you would want to add skills into the cue that cannot be skilled yet.
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-09 20:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagam
Danika Princip wrote:
Zagam wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
While our skill queue is convient and allows us to plan 24 hours in advance... it causes problems when your training that one skill to get to an another skill.

I propose that we be premitted to "inject a skill + add to queue" into the queue if we are going to qualify for that skill within the 24 hour window.

For example -

You have to train Weapon Upgrades V to get to Advanced Weapon Upgrades.

I want to start training "AWU" to I immedately after V as I would qualify for preqs.



Pros: For those who like to get their ducks in a row... this is a great thing to have.

Cons: wha? What cons?


Penality?? : Skill "vaporizes" if you remove it before you qualify for it.

Comemnts? Questions? Ideas?


Thanks.

Since most level 1 skills take a short time to train (under an hour), the benefit gained by adding it to the queue before prereqs are done is minimal. What I do is add a super-long skill on the end of the prereq (my current super-long skill is Caldari BS V, for example), and once the prereq is done, I just inject and start training the new skill, and move on with my skillplan.

Also, EVE-Mon is great.


What, you've never had to scramble around to find a BS skill you don't particularly want just to fill time between a prereq finishing and you being able to get on to start the skill you actually want?


A few hours difference in EVE is nothing in terms of training.

I have several lines of training going on within EVEMon, that I switch between based on current needs.

For example - I'm currently training Caldari Cruiser V so I can fly a Tengu. I also have skillplans for all of the support skills that I foresee needing in the future. Another skill plan for all the T2 cruiser hulls I might want to fly. Another skill plan for (maybe) a dread if CCP ever makes them worthy again. Another skill plan that I named "everything would be nice to max" that is everything I have parked at L4 that doesn't *need* to be raised to L5, but confer a (small) bonus when raised to L5.

Simply put, its all about planning.

edit: I will admit that I did the BS skill as an extreme example.. really anything that fills up your queue for a day or two will work.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-09-09 21:14:04 UTC
Waht does EVE Mon have to do with this? EVE Mon doesnt allow you to change skills at will. Having to plan for something a game mechanic denies when in fact its perfectly reasonable legit isn't much to ask for. This is one easily sovled frustratino that shouldn't be a frustration in the first place. Don't get me wrong...what your saying make sense... but its uncessary trouble for a simple fix.

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Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-09-09 21:17:54 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Waht does EVE Mon have to do with this? EVE Mon doesnt allow you to change skills at will. Having to plan for something a game mechanic denies when in fact its perfectly reasonable legit isn't much to ask for. This is one easily sovled frustratino that shouldn't be a frustration in the first place. Don't get me wrong...what your saying make sense... but its uncessary trouble for a simple fix.

EVEMon is what can be used to plan your skills to avoid the frustration.

Personally, I've encountered this situation before - but it doesn't frustrate me. I just move on. I think that this solution, while simple at first look, is actually rather complex, open to exploits, and also too much programming work for comparitively little gain.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#11 - 2011-09-09 22:02:31 UTC
I agree with the idea that you should be able to INJECT the skill and have it at level 0 but not be able to train it until prereqs are met.

Also, I'd like to be able to queue a skill after the prereqs are queued rather than throw in a filler skill that will get trained for a few hours until I can log in and inject/train the skill I'm really after.

I see no valid reason to not want these two features. Having to go to a skill book right when you need it is just a waste of player time.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-09 22:06:50 UTC
Zagam wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Waht does EVE Mon have to do with this? EVE Mon doesnt allow you to change skills at will. Having to plan for something a game mechanic denies when in fact its perfectly reasonable legit isn't much to ask for. This is one easily sovled frustratino that shouldn't be a frustration in the first place. Don't get me wrong...what your saying make sense... but its uncessary trouble for a simple fix.

EVEMon is what can be used to plan your skills to avoid the frustration.

Personally, I've encountered this situation before - but it doesn't frustrate me. I just move on. I think that this solution, while simple at first look, is actually rather complex, open to exploits, and also too much programming work for comparitively little gain.



Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#13 - 2011-09-10 00:07:45 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"


I don't even particularly like that penalty. Can anyone give a good reason for us to NOT be able to inject skills before we have the prerequisites?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-10 00:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"


I don't even particularly like that penalty. Can anyone give a good reason for us to NOT be able to inject skills before we have the prerequisites?



Not really.... but I didn't think CCP would like that much.

I'm open to that... I just don't like being denied training a skill beacuse *insert less than 24 hour time meassurement here*

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Sor'Ral
Ascendance Of New Eden
Workers Trade Federation
#15 - 2011-09-10 15:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Sor'Ral
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Hard to counteract my proposed penalty of "skill book vaproizes"


I don't even particularly like that penalty. Can anyone give a good reason for us to NOT be able to inject skills before we have the prerequisites?



Not sure which way is better, but one possible "Con" to allowing infinite injection of skills where pre-req's have not yet been trained:

Would this damage the current "skill book transport / selling to nullsec" trade mechanic? (not sure how extensively this mechanic is used, but some people may thrive on it).

Sure would make things easier tho ... before sending your characters to deep null or WH space, just buy and inject all the skills you might need .... certainly adds to the risk and excitement factor tho, when you have to transport those expensive cap ship skills through dangerous territory!

+1 for support of being able to add skills to the 24 hr queue, if the prereq's are already in the queue. The current limitation is very frustrating (tho not game breaking) ... just another of the 1,000 papercuts to die from.
Cheekything
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-11 00:37:23 UTC
I see no reason why it shouldn't of been added already.
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
#17 - 2011-09-11 02:05:50 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
a filler skill that will get trained for a few hours until I can log in and inject/train the skill I'm really after.


I remember either have to get up in the middle of the night or end up with a bunch of partially trained skills because the didn't end when you would have a chance to be online to change skills.

Besides, I'm not sure about other people, but I have 30+ skills that need trained to level 5, so there is no such thing as a wasted skill in the queue.


Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-09-11 23:36:13 UTC
Uninjecting skills into books is a problem. It would allow for the easy transportation of books in memory. 

So why is this relevant? Because once you allow the unrestricted injection of books you will have to allow for uninjecting because there will always be stupid people who inject a lot more than they should and will start whining about needing to uninjecting them. Heck, there was a proposal for uninjecting for purely aesthetic reasons of the skill list alone!!
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-09-12 08:14:03 UTC
MNagy wrote:
I would argue that you shoudl be able to put any skill into your toon.

You just cant skill it past 0 unless you have skill to.

It sux carrying holding skill books for weeks waiting / waiting / waiting to use them.

Then you finally fly back to where your skill books are - inject them and off you go again.
-That is the pain.

If you already had it in your skills but at level 0 - problem solved.


I hear that.

I have a collection of books that I forgot about or couldnt find in my myriads of hangars that I had and repurchased them thinking I didnt have them.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-09-12 10:37:49 UTC
Here is a practical reason why this will not work. 
Allowing injecting of skills at 0 level without a prerequisite check will cause undue burden on the servers. 
Why? Because this will mean prerequisite checks will need to be done every time you rearrange your training queue.  Currently these are done only on skill injection. Not only this, but a prereq check on a proposed training queue is more complicated due to dependancy checks on whether a given prereq is finished before a 0 skill is started. This means a lot more prereq checks done on the server, and each one is more complicated. 

Checks done on injection means that skill queue submission ( pause, apply ) is a simple update operation on the server, as you can only manipulate skills you can train in the queue editor. 

So as much as this would be a "nice to have" feature, it's unlikely to be done just to appease a few folks. 
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