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Mobile Tractor Unit, a bit of feedback after using.
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-11-04 02:01:24 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Edora Madullier wrote:


The funny thing is : it PROMOTES being AFK, since you have to be there while not doing anything (you killed the NPCs a long time ago, remember). So much fun indeed!


This exactly.
The structure requiring you to be on grid promotes AFK probably more so than it not requiring you to be on grid because if you're not on grid, at least you're out doing something else.

This thing takes so long to tractor that showing up in a MWD salvage destroyer (old school method) is faster than waiting on grid for this.

I say again, if you're required to be on grid, it is useless and tractor drones would better serve this purpose.


"promotes AFK probably more so than it not requiring you to be on grid because if you're not on grid, at least you're out doing something else"
Wow that's just too funny. So by you actually having to be present to get something in the game promotes you to be AFK... Maybe I can convince CCP that they need to make a module that completes missions for me while I'm not on grid? Big smile

As to the drones things I say again for every tractor drone you put out that would mean one less salvage drone so it's not useless



1) if you're sitting there waiting for the structure to pull in wrecks, then you're probably gonna walk away for a while. IE, you'll be afk...

Think of it this way.
It takes 2 minutes to pull in a wreck at max distance.
Let's assume you have 20 at 10km, 20 at 40km, 10 at 80, and 10 at 100km.
That is 2800 seconds or 46 minutes. Plus another 10 minutes for targeting.
Are you gonna wait for that, or come back and use a noctis?

2) carry some tractor and salvage drones.
Launch tractors to pull in wrecks, then launch salvage... You don't have to use both at the same time.
Just because you can carry more than one type of drone doesn't mean you should use more than one type at a time.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-11-04 04:52:47 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:
Edora Madullier wrote:


The funny thing is : it PROMOTES being AFK, since you have to be there while not doing anything (you killed the NPCs a long time ago, remember). So much fun indeed!


This exactly.
The structure requiring you to be on grid promotes AFK probably more so than it not requiring you to be on grid because if you're not on grid, at least you're out doing something else.

This thing takes so long to tractor that showing up in a MWD salvage destroyer (old school method) is faster than waiting on grid for this.

I say again, if you're required to be on grid, it is useless and tractor drones would better serve this purpose.


"promotes AFK probably more so than it not requiring you to be on grid because if you're not on grid, at least you're out doing something else"
Wow that's just too funny. So by you actually having to be present to get something in the game promotes you to be AFK... Maybe I can convince CCP that they need to make a module that completes missions for me while I'm not on grid? Big smile

As to the drones things I say again for every tractor drone you put out that would mean one less salvage drone so it's not useless



1) if you're sitting there waiting for the structure to pull in wrecks, then you're probably gonna walk away for a while. IE, you'll be afk...

Think of it this way.
It takes 2 minutes to pull in a wreck at max distance.
Let's assume you have 20 at 10km, 20 at 40km, 10 at 80, and 10 at 100km.
That is 2800 seconds or 46 minutes. Plus another 10 minutes for targeting.
Are you gonna wait for that, or come back and use a noctis?

2) carry some tractor and salvage drones.
Launch tractors to pull in wrecks, then launch salvage... You don't have to use both at the same time.
Just because you can carry more than one type of drone doesn't mean you should use more than one type at a time.




I'm going to have my alt with salvage drones do it while it pulls all the wrecks in. I'll be running missions on my main so not AFK. It doesn't sound so great for use with just one pilot. Keep in mind CCP will buff and nerf it as needed. They're most likely going to release it on the weak side and buff it later.

Tractor drones do sound interesting and it would depend on how fast they pulled wrecks in. Salvage drones are horribly slow.

Players have gotten spoiled with the Noctis and it's bonuses to salvagers and tractor beams so now anything that's not as good just isn't good.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#23 - 2013-11-04 05:51:07 UTC
IIshira wrote:

Tractor drones do sound interesting and it would depend on how fast they pulled wrecks in. Salvage drones are horribly slow.

Players have gotten spoiled with the Noctis and it's bonuses to salvagers and tractor beams so now anything that's not as good just isn't good.


To the first part: The way I envision it is that each drone can tractor at a certain speed that changes based on skill level and all five drones together at Lv5 are about the speed of an unbonused T1 tractor. T2 drones would be about the speed of a T2 tractor at Lv5. The tractors would maintain a slight speed advantage though.

To the second part: Absolutely. The Noctis came along and completely obsoleted every single other way of salvaging that has ever existed. If anything I'd say the Noctis is OP at what it does and leaves zero room for further expansion of the salvaging line.
Darth Mam
Industrial Mining and Mayhem
Sigma Grindset
#24 - 2013-11-04 09:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Mam
*Shocker*

This further streghten my vision of this patch as...crappycon!

The 2 things that "may" be turned out to be good.....misterioulsy turned so far to crap. Being the "awesome new role for marauders" and the "awesome useless tractor unit".

**off-topic bit**

- One provided with a stupid tanking module leaving them vulnerable to ganking or pretending the said class to be prancing around rooms with MJD while cutting it's drone ussage and versatility to "non-existant" Perhaps the concept marauder should be revisited...just name the class different already or I urge to to look up the definition (there's quite a few online free dictionaries).

***/off topic bit***

- The other one nearly useless as you'll not be able to use to any extent of making the wreck collection automatic thus making the time you spend on this matter shorter, i mean... is it so hard to understand that it could be a great thing?....instead you make a totally absurd deployable!.

How hard is for you guys to think that when you are.... let's say missioning.... you could drop one of those things per room and when the mission is finished you could jump in with a noctis for example and salvage the already centralized wrecks, empitied the tractor strcuture, de-anchor it and rinse and repeat on every room.

I can't honestly think a viable usage of this lame *** structure the way it's implemented now....oh wait.... could it be done especifically for gate campers??? again a looting structure for pvp purposes???? COME ON!

I won't even try to test that side of the module as i find it insulting, nor do i know nor care to know if it can be deployed near a gate. Also....as I see it the point of such a deployable would be to minimize the god damn awefull boring process of salvaging/looting somewhat less painfull.....to enable the players to keep doing things they enjoy most being running missions or simply kill things. FFS it is a PvE structure...play some god damn PvE before attemping to do somethign for that play style...then maybe you can get a glimpse of the overall mechanics of it.

This will surely not make any difference....but at least i'm trying to see if there's anyone there whose sole intrest is not PvP and having a crap-a-ton of alts for doing multiple things while PvE'ing.
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-11-04 10:18:00 UTC
The thing only works when beeing on grid? What the hell? It should work while not beeing on grid at least ive thought thats the point in them. And you still need to come back and grab the loot out of it and salvage the wrecks manually. I was hoping to reduce the amount of clicking by at least 50%. I was even hoping to use a T1 exploration frigate with salvagers, salvage drones and cargo expanders to quickly pick up the loot+salvage. Well 15 days from now on for CCP to fix this.
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity
#26 - 2013-11-04 12:37:46 UTC
I'm relieved, CCP Fozzie stated on another topic that the unit not working while not on-grid with it was not intended.

Quote:
I'm going to have my alt with salvage drones do it while it pulls all the wrecks in. I'll be running missions on my main so not AFK. It doesn't sound so great for use with just one pilot.


So if I get it right, you won't be actively using your alt, it will automatically salvage with drones while you do something else with your main? Which means, basically, that you'll be "AFK" so to speak with that account and earning ISK. Bad! Bad! Blink
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-11-04 14:47:27 UTC
Edora Madullier wrote:
I'm relieved, CCP Fozzie stated on another topic that the unit not working while not on-grid with it was not intended.

Quote:
I'm going to have my alt with salvage drones do it while it pulls all the wrecks in. I'll be running missions on my main so not AFK. It doesn't sound so great for use with just one pilot.


So if I get it right, you won't be actively using your alt, it will automatically salvage with drones while you do something else with your main? Which means, basically, that you'll be "AFK" so to speak with that account and earning ISK. Bad! Bad! Blink


The acronym AFK is short for "Away From Keyboard". On a Windows computer if you hold the ALT key while pressing TAB it allows you to switch between windows. While I'm killing stuff with one character the other will salvage. When I get a pause in aggro then I can do the ALT + TAB to change windows and collect my loot. This is not the same as me going setting up a structure that can just do all the work for me while I'm not at the computer or maybe even not logged on. I guess PI is already an AFK way to make ISK but for some reason CCP allows this while making others not possible.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-11-04 14:55:05 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
IIshira wrote:

Tractor drones do sound interesting and it would depend on how fast they pulled wrecks in. Salvage drones are horribly slow.

Players have gotten spoiled with the Noctis and it's bonuses to salvagers and tractor beams so now anything that's not as good just isn't good.


To the first part: The way I envision it is that each drone can tractor at a certain speed that changes based on skill level and all five drones together at Lv5 are about the speed of an unbonused T1 tractor. T2 drones would be about the speed of a T2 tractor at Lv5. The tractors would maintain a slight speed advantage though.

To the second part: Absolutely. The Noctis came along and completely obsoleted every single other way of salvaging that has ever existed. If anything I'd say the Noctis is OP at what it does and leaves zero room for further expansion of the salvaging line.


Yea when I first saw the Noctis I was thinking this should be a T2 ship with the huge bonuses it gets. It definitely made the Marauder obsolete when it comes to looting and salvaging.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-11-04 14:58:18 UTC
Darth Mam wrote:

I can't honestly think a viable usage of this lame *** structure the way it's implemented now....oh wait.... could it be done especifically for gate campers??? again a looting structure for pvp purposes???? COME ON!


Would this be a bad use of this device?
Moi Trader
VOID EMPIRE
#30 - 2013-11-04 15:20:06 UTC
I played a bit with the tractor unit ;)

I run a few missions to generate wrecks and used it as a "loot tool" -> Get in with a Noctis and drop the unit and pull every single wreck with the noctis in range of the tool. After that i started salvaging with the noctis but it seems that the tool has some trouble with looting.
It took alot of time until the Mobile Tractor unit looted everything (~5 min for 15 wrecks). I guess you are way faster when you just use your noctis and loot urself.

Besides of the loot issue i realised its pretty easy to kill this tool in space. (950 dps can kill it in ~45 sec) and it has no reinforce and there is no notification sent out to the owner that his unit is under attack. Additional you get a suspect timer in highsec.

IMO it would be ok if the loot function work smoothly > looting first everything what is in range and after that start pulling wrecks. It would fill its support role and doesnt need anything else.
Otherwise add more ehp or a small reinforce timer to give its owner a chance to safe his loot.


Standing- / Jumpclone Service
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-11-04 15:39:29 UTC
Flossie said on another thread that the looting and not tractoring when you're off grid is broken.

So, they're going to fix the looting issue, and they're supposed to tractor when off grid.

That's good news
Edora Madullier
French Kiss Singularity
#32 - 2013-11-04 15:40:55 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Edora Madullier wrote:
I'm relieved, CCP Fozzie stated on another topic that the unit not working while not on-grid with it was not intended.

Quote:
I'm going to have my alt with salvage drones do it while it pulls all the wrecks in. I'll be running missions on my main so not AFK. It doesn't sound so great for use with just one pilot.


So if I get it right, you won't be actively using your alt, it will automatically salvage with drones while you do something else with your main? Which means, basically, that you'll be "AFK" so to speak with that account and earning ISK. Bad! Bad! Blink


The acronym AFK is short for "Away From Keyboard". On a Windows computer if you hold the ALT key while pressing TAB it allows you to switch between windows.


I bolded the important part, so you can see I'm completely aware of what AFK means. The fact that you're at the keyboard does not change a damn thing. I could be at the keyboard while surfing the web. Am I entitled to earn money meanwhile? I don't think so. Even if it works the way we want it to, we still have to get back on the pocket and loot, scoop the structure, and salvage.

When it will continue its job while you're not there (because it will, CCP Fozzie stated it), staring at your ship in space while it tracts like a snail, it will then be possible to use a Noctis with a full rack of Salvagers. Until then, it's useless unless you're willing to AFK salvage drones half an hour.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-11-04 17:09:59 UTC
I was trying to explain what AFK was because you seemed confused about what it meant. You can't be "Away From Keyboard" when you're "At The Keyboard" ATK?

Me walking away from my computer and leaving Eve running to do something is not the same as ALT TABing between Eve clients to do stuff. If that were the case everyone dual boxing missions would be AFK.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#34 - 2013-11-05 17:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
So, after manufacturing and using the Mobile Tractor Unit (albeit on one mission) if you scoop the MTU to your cargo hold without emptying the cargo into your ships cargohold first it essentially scraps all that loot. I redeployed the MTU to find it empty.

Is this working as intended?

Also still getting the MTU trying to tractor me in...it's a bit like the MIL (Mother-In-Law), you just can't seem to get away from it ShockedBig smile

Dammit...damn thing jetitsoned a can with all that good stuff inside and I didn't see it. Well at least it was a fun posting experience :)

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#35 - 2013-11-05 18:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
OK more feedback.

Using a Golem:

1) Hit Warp Gate
2) Landed in site
3) Dropped MTU #1
4) Bastioned UP!
5) Killed all the things
6) Bastion OFF
5) MJD's 100km out.
6) Bastioned UP!
7) Dropped MTU #2
8) Killed all the things
9) Hit Warp Gate

Finished the mission so warped back to BM'd MTU #1

It's now pilfering all the wrecks MTU #2 had near it.

Is that supposed to happen? Couldn't they be flagged at having been "tractored" or "viewed" so that MTU #1 doesn't start hauling MTU #2's wrecks back and forth etc.

With a Golem top speed of 125m\s it's a PITA to go grabbing a wreck cos I didn't leave a 5km buffer in-between the 125km range. Just some thoughts that's all.

LOL: I'm watching two wrecks pass like ship sin the night in space as they tractor from each of the MTU's piles. Quite amusing.

EDIT: MTU#2 still hasn't looted the wreck that's 3.5km from it but is pulling in ones from MTU #1 at 107km away. Not the most efficient and think my Noctis will still be seeing some love.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-11-05 20:21:33 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
OK more feedback.

Using a Golem:

1) Hit Warp Gate
2) Landed in site
3) Dropped MTU #1
4) Bastioned UP!
5) Killed all the things
6) Bastion OFF
5) MJD's 100km out.
6) Bastioned UP!
7) Dropped MTU #2
8) Killed all the things
9) Hit Warp Gate

Finished the mission so warped back to BM'd MTU #1

It's now pilfering all the wrecks MTU #2 had near it.

Is that supposed to happen? Couldn't they be flagged at having been "tractored" or "viewed" so that MTU #1 doesn't start hauling MTU #2's wrecks back and forth etc.

With a Golem top speed of 125m\s it's a PITA to go grabbing a wreck cos I didn't leave a 5km buffer in-between the 125km range. Just some thoughts that's all.

LOL: I'm watching two wrecks pass like ship sin the night in space as they tractor from each of the MTU's piles. Quite amusing.

EDIT: MTU#2 still hasn't looted the wreck that's 3.5km from it but is pulling in ones from MTU #1 at 107km away. Not the most efficient and think my Noctis will still be seeing some love.



So far CCP has said that these structures are supposed to continue tractoring after you leave grid, which they currently have a problem with.
They have also stated that there is an issue with the looting mechanic that will be addressed.

However, I'm not sure they can do anything about 2 structures tractoring off each other.

The only thing I propose you can do is keep them over 130km away from each other so that they cannot reach the wrecks of the other structure.
I say 130km because their range is 125, and just because the structuresare 125km apart does not mean the wrecks are 125km away.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-11-05 20:26:10 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
So, after manufacturing and using the Mobile Tractor Unit (albeit on one mission) if you scoop the MTU to your cargo hold without emptying the cargo into your ships cargohold first it essentially scraps all that loot. I redeployed the MTU to find it empty.

Is this working as intended?

Also still getting the MTU trying to tractor me in...it's a bit like the MIL (Mother-In-Law), you just can't seem to get away from it ShockedBig smile

Dammit...damn thing jetitsoned a can with all that good stuff inside and I didn't see it. Well at least it was a fun posting experience :)



When you scoop the structure into your hold, it is designed to drop a jet can with all the loot.
Sir Spottington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-11-05 23:23:32 UTC
dont know if anyone has said this before but it trys to tractor cloaked ships aswell, giving there position away lol
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#39 - 2013-11-05 23:41:47 UTC
Sir Spottington wrote:
dont know if anyone has said this before but it trys to tractor cloaked ships aswell, giving there position away lol


Please report it using F12 and the IG Bug Report, the community will thank you Smile

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Sir Spottington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-11-05 23:54:49 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Sir Spottington wrote:
dont know if anyone has said this before but it trys to tractor cloaked ships aswell, giving there position away lol


Please report it using F12 and the IG Bug Report, the community will thank you Smile


yeh i have, ages ago, was just throwing it out there...
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