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So yeah sentrys OP much?

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seth Hendar
I love you miners
#81 - 2013-11-04 17:08:59 UTC
destiny2 wrote:
ive lost some ships in some strange ways as for damages but if their not a super or a titan i aint gonna complain :D

it's a matter of perspective, go tell that to someone who can berly afford to loose 2 strats in a row.

i can, but this doesn't change the fact that this is borken AND CCP's attitude toward it is "questionnable" to say the least.

i understand such bugs can be a pain to track and fix, and it can take ages, but until they are fxed, GM role is to copensate undue losses resulting from such bugs, yet they don't
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#82 - 2013-11-05 04:40:45 UTC
Lupo diCotze wrote:
Aye - I'm aware that structure come after armor :p

Here's the kill mail and the likely fitting of one the the parties.

iirc the dmg done on the killmail is the cumulative dmg - rather than the killing blow.
Subtracting those large dmg shots from the killmail damage done leaves 7778 which is about par for the other participants.

The T2 reinforced bulkheads would have brought structure HP up to around 236k with 3 of them (before resists are taken into account).

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the dmg shown in the log - something appears off - but at 10% armor the resist are much lower. If both shots hit when the armor was still at 10% ish - and if the remainder of the dmg was applied without taking into account the diff resists from the DC on structure - then it kinda adds up.
Which in turn helps understand where the problem might be.


I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.
John Bosch
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-11-05 04:44:57 UTC
Because we totally need another thread about this.....
Icer Xx
Tempest Legion
#84 - 2013-11-05 04:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Icer Xx
/me facedesk

Please just leave.

Janna Sway
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2013-11-05 05:10:04 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.


Thanks for the advice!
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
Just Lizard
#86 - 2013-11-05 05:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Benny Ohu wrote:
Icer Xx wrote:
As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

there was an entire committee of senior GMs formed today to determine just how much of nothing the logs showed


I think you, Sir, just leveled up!



Janna must have learned to troll in TEST ALLIANCE BEST ALLIANCE




Oh.....

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2013-11-05 05:48:08 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
Lupo diCotze wrote:
Aye - I'm aware that structure come after armor :p

Here's the kill mail and the likely fitting of one the the parties.

iirc the dmg done on the killmail is the cumulative dmg - rather than the killing blow.
Subtracting those large dmg shots from the killmail damage done leaves 7778 which is about par for the other participants.

The T2 reinforced bulkheads would have brought structure HP up to around 236k with 3 of them (before resists are taken into account).

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the dmg shown in the log - something appears off - but at 10% armor the resist are much lower. If both shots hit when the armor was still at 10% ish - and if the remainder of the dmg was applied without taking into account the diff resists from the DC on structure - then it kinda adds up.
Which in turn helps understand where the problem might be.


I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.


Indeed, you are NOT familiar with capital ships Roll

/facedesk

/facepalm

OMG, I'm wondering if he/she will edit/delete this post after receiving some friendly advice. I would give it for free but since he/she came only to derail the OP, I won't.

Keep escalating the petition, some Senior GM will take care of it, it's documented by both sides, it's an obvious bug.

And lets feed this thread, not the trolls on it, and hope CCP fix it ASAP.

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#88 - 2013-11-05 06:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
facepalm and facedesk until it bleeds. Twisted

You trollfitted your ship "to try something out". Well you tried and you got melted. Deal with it. But...You write a ticket to CCP, complaining about loosing your poorly fitted ship. Your case is investigated and no bugs and irregularities were found. You complain now about incompetent GM's and accuse PL of cheat and abuse of some sort.
One tip, maybe you should point your finger at yourself and deal with your own mistakes before you accuse others?

You just trolled with your fitting and you got what you deserved, you went *poof* like a frigate. Deal with it.
Just write an apology to PL because of your unjustified accusations in the following post and close the thread.
No hard feelings, but I am really against accusing people of cheating and trying to find "proofs" out of thin air, and accusing even GM's of being incompetent because they cannot see that what you are seeing.
You can be pretty sure that your case had been investigated thoroughly.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-11-05 06:09:02 UTC
There are no t2, faction or deadspace capital armour reps. There are no faction or deadspace hull reps. There are no capital hull reps. Hull reps are universally terrible. With the damage control, a single bulkhead gives more EHP on the Archon than three t2 1600s. The three bulkheads are better than energised membranes. The carrier was PVP fit, had refit for survivability, had resists, 1.5 million EHP and in triage was repping 10-12k dps.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-11-05 06:09:38 UTC
Apparently CVA uses T2 capital repair mods all the time.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2013-11-05 06:10:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Apparently CVA uses T2 capital repair mods all the time.

Who supplied them with the BPO? Someone email Internal Affairs
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#92 - 2013-11-05 06:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
Well at least I know now that it is a pretty dumb idea to hulltank an Archon. Thank you for proofing that. Furthermore, if you were repairing those 10k DPS, then why on earth you did not spam Armor Membranes as much as possible in order to maximize the repair-efficiency?

This thread is fishy guys. Good luck with your case.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2013-11-05 06:30:23 UTC
It is fishy, but you've completely misinterpreted the why.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2013-11-05 06:58:30 UTC
I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#95 - 2013-11-05 07:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Sway
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".


100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting. Shocked
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
Just Lizard
#96 - 2013-11-05 07:10:50 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".


100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting. :D
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.



Generally if you don't know.... don't say anything.



Generally.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#97 - 2013-11-05 09:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Janna Sway wrote:
Lupo diCotze wrote:
Aye - I'm aware that structure come after armor :p

Here's the kill mail and the likely fitting of one the the parties.

iirc the dmg done on the killmail is the cumulative dmg - rather than the killing blow.
Subtracting those large dmg shots from the killmail damage done leaves 7778 which is about par for the other participants.

The T2 reinforced bulkheads would have brought structure HP up to around 236k with 3 of them (before resists are taken into account).

I'm not saying there isn't an issue with the dmg shown in the log - something appears off - but at 10% armor the resist are much lower. If both shots hit when the armor was still at 10% ish - and if the remainder of the dmg was applied without taking into account the diff resists from the DC on structure - then it kinda adds up.
Which in turn helps understand where the problem might be.


I am not familiar with capital ships but understand the basics of fitting ships. May I say, you have fitted your expensive archon in a terrible way. Your Archon is paperthin and it is no wonder that it went *poof* in a matter of seconds. You spend tons of ISK for an archon and you use T1 Armor repairers and hulltank it? Sorry but I hope you have learned about your mistakes you just made and after seeing the fit I really doubt that you lost your ship because of a bug, and if it was a bug, well, with that fit you just asked for disappointment and loss.

If you wanna hulltank (because you want the lows for something else but repair modules), then use T2 hull repairers at least in your mid slots in combination to bulkheads in the lows...
If you wanna armor tank, then use T2 Armor repairers at least, but please rather use faction or deadspace stuff, and use Armor tank modules. Always focus on one specific tanking method, either shield tank, armor tank, or if you are really manly, then hull tank for the lulz. But please, even if you are really manly, still do not hulltank.

I guess that one Ishtar would deal around 700-750 DPS by using T2 sentries, and you can be pretty sure that all Ishtars focused you at the same time when you were called as a target, i.e. 14.000 damage per second on a paperthin carrier with no noticeable defenses, relying on 60% resistance strength on the hull, no buffer tank, relying on two T1 armor repairers that cannot deal with the burst damage coming at you.

I am pretty sure that the Ishtars all focused your archon at the same time, thus dealing burst damage, and your fitted ship, with those T1 armor repairers, were rather fitted for dealing with consistent damage coming from for example NPC ships.
You counter burst damage with tank buffer and you counter consistent damage that comes in "small" bursts with tank recovery modules like shield booster and armor repairers.

For PvP, where you can most likely expect burst damage coming at you, you should tank with tank-buffer modules, like armor plates and shield extenders.
For PvE, where rats deal consistent damage to you in small "bursts" through a large amount of ships, then you tank with tank-recovery modules like armor repairers and shield boosters.

To me it seems like you were out there running anomalies with your archon and the Pandemic Legion fleet just caught you off guard and grilled you. In case you fitted the Archon for PvP purposes, then maybe you should consider flying battlecruisers.

Overall I think you should take back your accusations towards the Pandemic Legion and work on yourself. I am also pretty sure that those guys from Pandemic Legion do not really have the need to cheat in the slightest. They know and understand about what they are doing and know how to melt Archons.

sorry to disapoint you, but you clearly are not a capital pilot.
T2 capital mods? yeah, i'd like to see them....

also it seems obvious that this guy refited while entering struct or right before entering struct, probably while he was still in triage, in the hope to survive throught the remaining triage time so his fleetmates can land reps on him (wich is NOT possible as long as triage is runnning).
also i like the "ton of isk", archon are not "that" expansive, and i'll assume OP can replace it, following eve rule #1: "don't fly what you can't afford to loose"

you writing that make me think you might be pretty new to this game, so here you have a very good opportunity to learn how capitals works, i suggest you don't waste it, pretty sure some guys in your alliance will be kind enought to explain it to you

also, basically you are saying this guy was "alphaed", and while the mechanic you describe does exist and works, it still register damage for each sentry (in a very very long log of sentry damage at the same second), not one entry with the addition of all the damage
Jassmin Joy
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#98 - 2013-11-05 09:39:52 UTC
Janna Sway wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".


100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting. Shocked
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.


So you wrote all that, and didn't even read the whole point in the thread? just saw a killmail you obviously know nothing about and decided to throw out your pointless "advice"?



Kenrailae wrote:
Janna Sway wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I seriously don't understand how someone can look at a log that shows a single volley from a single sentry drone of over 100,000 damage and say "obviously he fit his ship wrong".


100k damage with one T1 Curator shot. Well that's interesting. :D
I don't know guys, just good luck with this.



Generally if you don't know.... don't say anything.



Generally.


They mostly come at night... mostly
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
Just Lizard
#99 - 2013-11-05 09:45:56 UTC
Touche, Jassmin.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#100 - 2013-11-05 09:54:45 UTC
Icer Xx wrote:
So after 4 days of waiting. I get a response saying:

"After having looked at your ticket we have gone over the data we have at our end and we see no irregularities."

Well it seems I should train my dread pilots into an Ishtar then if this is pretty normal thing to happen apparently.

As for the "We" I want to know how many gm's dose it take to look at a log and see something is wrong?

I literally laughed out loud at this (and that doesn't happen often because I'm a grumpy bugger).

I'm hoping that the GM policy is to not actually read the petition the first time round. Otherwise I seriously wonder where they find these people.

Bump for a please fix CCP.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.