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warpy cloacky loki viable? and baiting question
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Mowitz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-09-08 17:48:19 UTC
im just curious to know if a warpy cloaky loki with twin webs and faction disruptor to keep range on my side could work well in solo pvp or with a SB companion or 2. i wouldent engage on or near gates.. ever.. but more to hunt ratters, and people in anoms.. i understand it wouldent be cheap but could it work? i dont like the idea of none cloaky ships for solo work,,, i want to start the fight on mytime table and stalk my target as long as i feel necessary.. atleast till i get more comfortable with fighting..




about the baiting, if i steal a guys loot and he shoots me in hisec will i get concorded for killing him?

thanks for you time.
Doragon Trakr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-08 17:58:46 UTC
Cloaky t3s have really awful dps, so if that guy in the anomaly you're killing has mates nearby you won't kill him in time. A loki with web/disrupt is a nice choice, if you make it nano you can get out of most situations. If you're dead set on being cloaky, then the loki is the best choice out of the t3s, but the numbers you get might not be so amazing :)

As for question 2. - no you won't but you need to wait for him to shoot first ofc.
Rev Blackblade
Zero Confidence
Mostly Mismanaged
#3 - 2011-09-08 18:45:16 UTC
The cloaky loki, like pointed out gets teribad dps.. i use one for solo work myself, but it requires you to choose your targets carefully, if you insist on being cloaky killiy for solo work, i strongly recommend the rapier. it suffers the same drawback of having to choose carefully your targets, but the Rapier in this role, and the loki in this role preform very similarly, and honestly , anything i would attack in my loki (risk vs. Reward) i would attack in my Rapier. one costs upwards of a half bill, the other about half that.

If your wallet can afford the loki loss, then you should try it out, my is a scanning cloaky loki, with recon level dps for hutning in wormholes, and the like.

My rapier is for 0.0/ low sec solo roams, you would be surprised how often you bump into other cloaked ships.

AS for your second questions : you may , in empire fire at anything that is RED. GCC make people RED, so when you loot the can, you go RED to the corporation of the person that owns it (unless that corporation is npc, then its just the person) so anyone in that corporation may shoot at you, cause you are RED. however , anyone shooting at you in empire goes RED to you.. just wait for the person to go RED, then you may kill at your leisure.

Somehow i dont think that came out half as clearly as i had hoped it would...,Roll
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-08 19:17:40 UTC
Cloaky loki is great for hunting down people in wormholes - you can get almost as much dps as from a cloaky proteus or HAM tengu, and you can get a fit that has both guns, probe launcher, and covops cloak. Expect somewhere between 4-500dps, though the proteus does have the advantage of more buffer. I don't have any fits on me atm, but I'm sure if you look around you can probably find some. I still prefer the proteus myself, because cloaky gank is one situation where blasters can shine, but its really a question of skills and taste.

-Arazel
Hypnagogia Ichinumi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-08 19:37:55 UTC
Rev Blackblade wrote:

If your wallet can afford the loki loss, then you should try it out, my is a scanning cloaky loki, with recon level dps for hutning in wormholes, and the like.

My rapier is for 0.0/ low sec solo roams, you would be surprised how often you bump into other cloaked ships.


Care to share fits? I'm not quite there yet skill-wise, but I've been looking at a cloaky loki for non-combat 0.0 exploration where the reduced DPS may still be viable in exchange for the security a cloak provides.
Rev Blackblade
Zero Confidence
Mostly Mismanaged
#6 - 2011-09-08 20:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Rev Blackblade
With my skills
Speed 1405
Effective HP 50.5K
Resists - 89,85,85,83
DPS 155 - Volley 580
The DPS and lack of drones make you have to pick your targets carefylly, i like to run in on mining groups, and catch haulers at the door, the ship is cap stable at 55% and has a pretty good tank on it, but its resist buffer only , no repper meaning that its overall pretty limiting for combat, but you can take opprotunity targets, and it does a good job scanning a cloaking which is its primary role.

[Loki, WH]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II
Kinetic Deflection Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Stasis Webifier II

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#7 - 2011-09-09 07:22:52 UTC
Wow.. that Loki fit is pretty terrible...

First off, the Proteus is much better for this role, but if you insist on using a Loki.. you should be able to pull off much better numbers than that.
Biife Stuhe
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-09 14:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Biife Stuhe
Here is a proper hunter/killer loki fit:

High:
Covops Cloak II
Expanded Probe Launcher
5x425mm AutoCannon II

Mid:
10MN MWD II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II (I like the Fed Navy Stasis web in here, but whatever)
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

Low:
Damage Control II
2x Gyrostabiliser II
Tracking Enhancer II

Rig:
1x Core Defense Field Extender
1x Medium Projectile Burst Aerator
1x Medium Projectile Ambit Extension

Subsystems:
Adaptive Shielding
Emergent Locus Analyzer
Covert Reconfiguration
Chassis Optimizer
Power Core Multiplier

This gives you a cloaky Loki with probes, 52k EHP, 476 dps (with heat), 1109 dps volley, and if you switch to barrage you can go out to 28km and still shoot. 1884 m/s (2677m/s heated). Overall a better fit than the one posted earlier. Same role, but more DPS, more EHP and more speed.
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-09-09 19:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Go Diveher
For what you're looking for, about the cheapest way of doing it is:

[Loki, Buffer gank]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Warp Disruptor II
Invulnerability Field II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I

Medium Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

411 DPS / 63k EHP

EDIT: this fit is to shoot things like drakes / mission battleships, hence needs DPS (gyros) more than it needs tracking. Adjust accordingly.

This makes it "about" as useful as a shield cane in terms of engageable targets.... tho watch out mightily for any incoming. You can also slap on a 100mn afterburner for GTFO, but you won't be able to use it in combat effectively.

The sad thing is, a cloaked armour loki will do terrible DPS, and a cloaked shield loki can't mount the immobility drivers subsystem to boost the web range as doing so removes the midslot to fit the web Roll

You also lack any viable EWAR, i.e. neuts or tracking disruption, meaning a lot of PVE fits will be able to really hurt you if they return fire, and can possibly force you to get out.

In my experience, the best thing to do is have an alt in a stealth bomber grab point, and then just use a Hurricane (standard shield / DPS cane) to do the smashing. This combination will:

- Do more DPS, so the target dies quicker (less exposure)
- Has dual medium neuts to kill PVE fits quicker (less exposure)
- Is MUCHHHHH cheaper if the above points don't win it for you

The idea of a stealthy T3 is lovely, immune to harm, engage on your terms, but CCP have balanced these pretty well and their viable targets, flown solo, are not impressive.