These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP breaking the law and causing gambling addiction/ rl problems through their promotions

First post
Author
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#81 - 2013-11-04 14:19:52 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Everyone realizes that in order for it to be a gambling site, you have to be able to cash out your winnings right?

You wouldn't have done 4 pages of nonsense without knowing that ... RIGHT?

*edit* otherwise all your doing is paying money to play SOMER Blink the gambling game...

Actually that depends on the jurisdiction

Some the ability to bet is enough, in the uk it is the ability to bet or get a prize depending on the section.

Gambling act 2005 wrote:

9 Betting: general
3 Gambling

In this Act “gambling” means—

(a)gaming (within the meaning of section 6),

(b)betting (within the meaning of section 9), and

(c)participating in a lottery (within the meaning of section 14 and subject to section 15).

6 Gaming & game of chance
(1)In this Act “betting” means making or accepting a bet on—

(a)the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process,

(b)the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring, or

(c)whether anything is or is not true.

14 Lottery
(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.


Under this insanely broad definition, all of EVE Online is a gambling site , especially exploration. So are British cops gonna come to Texas and gank me the next time I get an escalation from a Sansha Haven? I need to know so i can set out Tea and Crumpets or whatever the hell Brits eat lol.
NickyYo
StarHug
#82 - 2013-11-04 14:20:29 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Everyone realizes that in order for it to be a gambling site, you have to be able to cash out your winnings right?

You wouldn't have done 4 pages of nonsense without knowing that ... RIGHT?

*edit* otherwise all your doing is paying money to play SOMER Blink the gambling game...


People cashed out when CCP gave holidays to vegas as prizes!!

..

Frying Doom
#83 - 2013-11-04 14:24:40 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
You know how many games would fall under that... i cant imagine how many facebook slot games there are... I know i played a facebook poker game where u could buy more chips

You can buy chips for poker. How is that not gambling?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2013-11-04 14:27:01 UTC
As far as im aware Gibralter holds facebooks licences
And if that breaches its gambling rights it then falls on to the Entertaining Play Limited,
a subsidiary of the Gamesys Group is licensed and regulated in Malta by the Lotteries and Gaming Authority.

So basically Facebook is licenced to hell and back Big smile

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-11-04 14:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: oOReikaOo Michiko
Frying Doom wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
You know how many games would fall under that... i cant imagine how many facebook slot games there are... I know i played a facebook poker game where u could buy more chips

You can buy chips for poker. How is that not gambling?


In the us the term internet gambling is...

"Internet gambling business means “the business of placing, receiving or otherwise knowingly transmitting a bet or wager by any means which involves the use, at least in part, of the Internet, but does not include the performance of the customary activities of a financial transaction provider, or any interactive computer service or telecommunications service."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-11-04 14:30:14 UTC
Jove Death wrote:
As far as im aware Gibralter holds facebooks licences
And if that breaches its gambling rights it then falls on to the Entertaining Play Limited,
a subsidiary of the Gamesys Group is licensed and regulated in Malta by the Lotteries and Gaming Authority.

So basically Facebook is licenced to hell and back Big smile


Thats it, time to message my lawyer friend, I wanna get his input on this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Frying Doom
#87 - 2013-11-04 14:30:15 UTC
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
You know how many games would fall under that... i cant imagine how many facebook slot games there are... I know i played a facebook poker game where u could buy more chips

You can buy chips for poker. How is that not gambling?


In the us the term internet gambling is...

"Internet gambling business means “the business of placing, receiving or otherwise knowingly transmitting a bet or wager by any means which involves the use, at least in part, of the Internet, but does not include the performance of the customary activities of a financial transaction provider, or any interactive computer service or telecommunications service."

Sorry that was my miss interpretation of what you were saying.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Prince Kobol
#88 - 2013-11-04 14:30:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:
Everyone realizes that in order for it to be a gambling site, you have to be able to cash out your winnings right?

You wouldn't have done 4 pages of nonsense without knowing that ... RIGHT?

*edit* otherwise all your doing is paying money to play SOMER Blink the gambling game...

Actually that depends on the jurisdiction

Some the ability to bet is enough, in the uk it is the ability to bet or get a prize depending on the section.

Gambling act 2005 wrote:

9 Betting: general
3 Gambling

In this Act “gambling” means—

(a)gaming (within the meaning of section 6),

(b)betting (within the meaning of section 9), and

(c)participating in a lottery (within the meaning of section 14 and subject to section 15).

6 Gaming & game of chance
(1)In this Act “betting” means making or accepting a bet on—

(a)the outcome of a race, competition or other event or process,

(b)the likelihood of anything occurring or not occurring, or

(c)whether anything is or is not true.

14 Lottery
(4)In this Act “prize” in relation to lotteries includes any money, articles or services—

(a)whether or not described as a prize, and

(b)whether or not consisting wholly or partly of money paid, or articles or services provided, by the members of the class among whom the prize is allocated.


Under this insanely broad definition, all of EVE Online is a gambling site , especially exploration. So are British cops gonna come to Texas and gank me the next time I get an escalation from a Sansha Haven? I need to know so i can set out Tea and Crumpets or whatever the hell Brits eat lol.


lol.. You see what Frying Doom is doing, or trying to do is apply Laws which are designed for gambling sites using Real Money to virtual items.

In the UK there are no Laws to goven the use of virtual items being used for gamling or for anything because its is incredibly difficult to assign a real life value to a virtual item.

The act that Frying Doom keeps referring to was brought into law to regulate Casinos and Betting Companies as well as other compaines who began to make gambling available on the internet.

It has and continues to has no relevance to MMO's and virtual items.

The other legal issue which Frying Doom also continues to ignore is that whether the user of said virtual item actually owns it.

Most if not all companies make it clear that users only have a licence to the virtual goods and the licence is terminated if they breach those terms.

This means if a user sells a virtual good on the secondary market, the licence terminates and the items becomes worthless.

Additionally, if a user's violation of the terms of service, their account may be terminated.

By having this licence provision, the games company does not need to reimburse the user for any virtual good.

You see this means that if anybody sells any virtual item, lets say Isk, Ships, Mods, BPO's, then the virtual items inherently has no real life value as you have broken the terms and conditions of the EULA and TOS.

This is completely introspective of what you might have paid for it.
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#89 - 2013-11-04 14:33:11 UTC
I don't feel compassion for people that are dumb enough to gamble for money they can't afford to loose (ISK or RL). And I don't see why I should.

It's not really a secret that if you gamble you are going to loose money. And I don't see why anyone should change anything because there are people that are simply too stupid to see the obvious.

Face the consequences of your own actions and don't try to blame others for them!
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#90 - 2013-11-04 14:36:26 UTC
Nicky Yo does have a point about the kids who get into that gambling. I can see someone getting addicted to the Eve gambling, then it spreading to other forms of gambling in real life. Is it CCPs fault? Dunno, but I think it should be looked into to see if there is something that can help those who might get addicted.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#91 - 2013-11-04 14:39:04 UTC
Great.... Another SOMER rage thread. Now in pink color.
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2013-11-04 14:41:01 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Nicky Yo does have a point about the kids who get into that gambling. I can see someone getting addicted to the Eve gambling, then it spreading to other forms of gambling in real life. Is it CCPs fault? Dunno, but I think it should be looked into to see if there is something that can help those who might get addicted.


Gateway gambling.. gateway drugs... gateway hugging (yes there are schools that do not let u hug in the US cause it may lead to sex one day...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSDNPFCPfY

Frying Doom
#93 - 2013-11-04 14:51:00 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:


lol.. You see what Frying Doom is doing, or trying to do is apply Laws which are designed for gambling sites using Real Money to virtual items.

In the UK there are no Laws to goven the use of virtual items being used for gamling or for anything because its is incredibly difficult to assign a real life value to a virtual item.

The act that Frying Doom keeps referring to was brought into law to regulate Casinos and Betting Companies as well as other compaines who began to make gambling available on the internet.

It has and continues to has no relevance to MMO's and virtual items.

The other legal issue which Frying Doom also continues to ignore is that whether the user of said virtual item actually owns it.

Most if not all companies make it clear that users only have a licence to the virtual goods and the licence is terminated if they breach those terms.

This means if a user sells a virtual good on the secondary market, the licence terminates and the items becomes worthless.

Additionally, if a user's violation of the terms of service, their account may be terminated.

By having this licence provision, the games company does not need to reimburse the user for any virtual good.

You see this means that if anybody sells any virtual item, lets say Isk, Ships, Mods, BPO's, then the virtual items inherently has no real life value as you have broken the terms and conditions of the EULA and TOS.

This is completely introspective of what you might have paid for it.

Blah Blah Blah

you missed the fact that with the winnings you can buy a plex and pay for your game time, which is a real life service.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Prince Kobol
#94 - 2013-11-04 14:59:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Frying Doom wrote:


This is completely introspective of what you might have paid for it
Blah Blah Blah

you missed the fact that with the winnings you can buy a plex and pay for your game time, which is a real life service.



Sorry but it doesn't work that way Big smile

You are using a virtual item which was designed to be used in a computer game to gamble with and you can only win virtual items which are designed to be used in a computer game.

At no point has any of the virtual items that we are talking about have been designed primarily used for gambling.

I can only talk about UK Laws, I have no idea how this would work in other countries however I would wager (Big smile) that since there is no real life currency involved at any point and that none of the virtual items were designed with the express purpose of gambling with, then they couldn't careless.

Of course you could like I suggested in a previous thread and contact the relevant government gambling enforcement department of your country and put in an official complaint, but we all know you wont do that because you would be laughed at Big smile

Of course you can and will continue to be Internet Lawyer and come up with arguments like blah blah blah but hey, this is the Eve O forums where Internet Lawyering and looking like a crazy person comes hand in hand Big smile
Prince Kobol
#95 - 2013-11-04 15:01:53 UTC
sorry double post
Jythier Smith
BGG Wolves
#96 - 2013-11-04 15:08:26 UTC
It's not gambling, you buy a service and you receive Blink credit and then you turn that Blink credit into ISK. Blink credit is worthless except as Blink says. ISK is all owned by CCP.

Your assets are never at risk at all, except as defined in the game as 'your assets'. But you don't have any real life assets at risk.

You say, "But they'll buy more and more GTCs, isn't that risk?"

That's buying too much stuff, not gambling. There is no risk involved at all - they pay and there is no way they get anything out of it. What they get out of it is either Blink credit or owned by CCP.
NickyYo
StarHug
#97 - 2013-11-04 15:24:10 UTC
Jythier Smith wrote:
It's not gambling, you buy a service and you receive Blink credit and then you turn that Blink credit into ISK. Blink credit is worthless except as Blink says. ISK is all owned by CCP.

Your assets are never at risk at all, except as defined in the game as 'your assets'. But you don't have any real life assets at risk.

You say, "But they'll buy more and more GTCs, isn't that risk?"

That's buying too much stuff, not gambling. There is no risk involved at all - they pay and there is no way they get anything out of it. What they get out of it is either Blink credit or owned by CCP.



So people didn't get holidays to vegas out of it then?

..

CCP Dolan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#98 - 2013-11-04 15:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Dolan
Locking this thread for violation of :

Quote:
Rule 31. Rumor mongering is prohibited.

Rumor threads and posts which are based off no actual solid information and are designed to either troll or annoy other users will be locked and removed. These kinds of threads and posts are detrimental to the wellbeing and spirit of the EVE Online Community, and can create undue panic among forum users, as well as adding to the workload of our moderators.


If you have any legal concerns please contact Internal Affairs at [email protected]

CCP Dolan | Community Representative

Twitter: @CCPDolan

Gooby pls